110 vs 220

[Gordon Eyre]

My new jointer will be delivered in the next few days and where I want to locate it in the shop I have 220 available. That begs the question as to whether I should leave the machine wired for 110 or rewire the motor for 220? Are there advantages one way or the other. I notice the amperage draw for my jointer is 15 at 110 and 7.5 at 220. My 110 outlet at that location has a 15 amp breaker and Grizzly recommends 20 amp. The 220 circuit at that location has a 30 amp breaker so that would be no sweat. What are your thoughts and the pluses and minuses?

[Mike Henderson]

This issue has been discussed numerous times. My own opinion is that if your motor is more than 1HP, go with 240V.

Mike

[Gordon Eyre]

Thanks Mike, it is 1 1/2 HP.

[Brian Elfert]

I don't think you have much choice on going to 220 volt as you'll likely blow a 15 amp breaker with a 15 amp motor. You can't just put in a 20 amp breaker unless the circuit already has 12 gauge wire. (It is likely wired with 14 gauge wire.)

[Gordon Eyre]

I just did a search as Mike sort of suggested and did find all kinds of information. Based on what I read I will wire my dual 110/220 motor for 220. As you point out Brian I would have been up against the limit of my 15 amp circuit breaker at 110 anyway. I should have done the search first so I am sorry that I didn't waste anyone else's time with my question.

[Steve Meliza]

If you rewire to 220V you probably need to replace to magnetic power switch as well. Grizzly sells them for about $60.

[Leo Graywacz]

1 1/2 HP probably has a motor switch on it and not a starter. I know my Delta DJ 20 is setup that way.

[Gordon Eyre]

If you rewire to 220V you probably need to replace to magnetic power switch as well. Grizzly sells them for about $60.

The G0604ZX is set up to be used either way by just switching a couple of wires at the motor.

[Mike Cutler]

Gordon

As Mike stated, it's been an ongoing topic and basically motor size is the determining factor, followed next by convenience.
If you have the 240 receptacle right there, it's easier to just wire to 220 and be done with it.
Will it run on a 120/15 amp breaker? Probably very well. My Jet DC 1100 has a 1 1/2hp motor and it's been running on a 120/ 15 amp circuit for a decade just fine, but there is absolutely no doubt your new jointer will run well within the breaker parameters of a 220 circuit. It's peace of mind for a couple of dollars invested in the correct plug. Forget the theoretical, technical, NEC discussions that usually follows these questions.;)
You didn't waste anybodies time. I'll help answer this question a zillion times, if it saves just one person the potential of a mismatched circuit/load that could result in a fire, or electrocution.

[Gordon Eyre]

Gordon

As Mike stated, it's been an ongoing topic and basically motor size is the determining factor, followed next by convenience.
If you have the 240 receptacle right there, it's easier to just wire to 220 and be done with it.
Will it run on a 120/15 amp breaker? Probably very well. My Jet DC 1100 has a 1 1/2hp motor and it's been running on a 120/ 15 amp circuit for a decade just fine, but there is absolutely no doubt your new jointer will run well within the breaker parameters of a 220 circuit. It's peace of mind for a couple of dollars invested in the correct plug. Forget the theoretical, technical, NEC discussions that usually follows these questions.;)
You didn't waste anybodies time. I'll help answer this question a zillion times, if it saves just one person the potential of a mismatched circuit/load that could result in a fire, or electrocution.

Thanks Mike, i appreciate your response.

[Erik Christensen]

One thing nobody has mentioned is the size of the breaker on your 220 circuit for the tool you are using. Ideally the breaker not only protects the house from burning down due to overheating the wire but also provides some protection to the equipment itself. All my 220 tools are on dedicated lines with breakers sized for the tool (breaker boxes, wire & breakers are cheap compared to big tools). I would run that jointer on a 15 amp breaker at the most - anything more and you run the risk of motor damage even if the wiring is fine.

[Aleks Hunter]

Excellent observation. Especially when working with hard woods it is very easy to overload the motor on a jointer or planer.

[Leo Graywacz]

The heaters in the starter should be the main motor protection.

[Joseph Tarantino]

........ Ideally the breaker not only protects the house from burning down due to overheating the wire but also provides some protection to the equipment itself....... I would run that jointer on a 15 amp breaker at the most - anything more and you run the risk of motor damage even if the wiring is fine.

incorrect. breakers are there for the circuit protection only. IMHO, the wires within a motor will fry long before a 12 or 14 gauge wire will.

[Mike Henderson]

incorrect. breakers are there for the circuit protection only. IMHO, the wires within a motor will fry long before a 12 or 14 gauge wire will.
I agree. Breakers are circuit protectors, not equipment protectors.

Mike

[Brian Hood]

incorrect. breakers are there for the circuit protection only. IMHO, the wires within a motor will fry long before a 12 or 14 gauge wire will.

This comment is right on the money, but to add a couple details:
Yes breakers are just to prevent the wiring to the receptacle from overheating and for no other reason. The advice from Grizzly is just very general advice. Probably the wiring connected to a 15 amp breaker is #14 AWG and that is smaller than you might want for a 1.5 HP motor, but unless you check the wire itself you don't know. The reason you might want larger wire, 12 or 10, has to do with the length of the run and the value of the motor. The bottom line is that there is no advantage one way or the other 120 or 240 if there is enough copper for the electrons to move around in. For example, in my case I had a Rockwell saw for about 30 years and it had to move to a jobsite now and again. Not wanting to rewire the thing every time I moved it I installed a #10 copper wire circuit on a 120 volt 20 amp breaker, not the 30 that is allowed. I'm sure I got every bit of power that motor had in it. My new saw has 3 very expensive Danish motors and I really don't want to take a chance on them, so I ran a #10 240 volt line but on a 20 amp breaker. A few more bucks for wire perhaps, but certainly can't hurt, and my advice to anyone wiring a shop would be to consider running # 10 wire to a couple outlets the bigger machines might be near.

[Art Mann]

Messed up.

[Art Mann]

Look at the trip curve of an ordinary household breaker. The breaker will hold at 2 times rated current for maybe 30 seconds and 4 or 5 times rated current for a few seconds. Clearly, typical breakers are not designed to protect the equipment to which they are connected. OTOH, an insulated copper wire will carry 2X rated current for a minute or so before getting hot enough to melt the insulation.

[Martin Jodoin]

Gordon

Why not give it a shot as delivered, wired for 110v and see how it goes. If you trip the breaker too often then you can rewire the motor.
Personally, i think you will be fine on 110v. Keep in mind 15 Amp is the maximum load and i don't think you will joint 6 inch wide boards all day long.
Congrats on your purchase btw, very nice jointer.

[Rick Christopherson]

Gordon

Why not give it a shot as delivered, wired for 110v and see how it goes. If you trip the breaker too often then you can rewire the motor.
Personally, i think you will be fine on 110v. Keep in mind 15 Amp is the maximum load and i don't think you will joint 6 inch wide boards all day long.
Congrats on your purchase btw, very nice jointer.Finally! Common sense prevails. The tool hasn't even been delivered, yet there is discussion of altering it long before determining whether a problem exists or not.

[Mike Cutler]

Gordon

Why not give it a shot as delivered, wired for 110v and see how it goes. If you trip the breaker too often then you can rewire the motor.
Personally, i think you will be fine on 110v. Keep in mind 15 Amp is the maximum load and i don't think you will joint 6 inch wide boards all day long.
Congrats on your purchase btw, very nice jointer.

Martin/Rick

I believe Gordon's dilemma is that Grizzly specified a circuit requirement he wasn't going to meet with his current, available, 120 duplex receptacle. So he does already have a problem to resolve prior to use.
Does the Jointer ship with a molded plug attached already? and what is the configuration? Some tools don't ship with the plug attached, and having never seen a Griz' tool, I don't know. If it ship with a 120/15 amp molded plug attached, it better be able to run all day long on a 15 amp protected circuit. If not, it's up to the end user.
None the less, it's Gordon's home and shop, and he has to perform what he believes is the safest, most correct, and prudent action, which would be to meet the manufacturers specification for installation. He can't be wrong doing that.


I have a question.
Have you ever seen a machine/device shipped with a 120/20 amp plug configuration? I don't believe I have ever seen a 20 amp plug on a 120 device shipped from a manufacturer. They always come with the 15 amp plug attached. I was just thinking about that because my Jet DC, and General Hybrid saw both have motors that are 1 1/2 and 2hp,( supposedly:rolleyes:) motors attached respectively that came pre configured for 120/15 amp.

[Curt Harms]

Another question is what else is on that 120 volt circuit? A 15 amp circuit might power a jointer rated to draw 15 amps okay. That 15 amp circuit with the jointer, a couple lights and maybe a fan on it might not be so happy. 240 volt circuits seem less likely to have additional loads.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Martin/Rick


I have a question.
Have you ever seen a machine/device shipped with a 120/20 amp plug configuration? I don't believe I have ever seen a 20 amp plug on a 120 device shipped from a manufacturer. They always come with the 15 amp plug attached. I was just thinking about that because my Jet DC, and General Hybrid saw both have motors that are 1 1/2 and 2hp,( supposedly:rolleyes:) motors attached respectively that came pre configured for 120/15 amp.

I have several older Festool vacuums that have 20 amp plugs, although the newer Festool vacs do not.
Since most places have 15 amp outlets on 20 amp circuits, it would be a waste & inconvenience to most buyers to install 20 amp plugs.

[Martin Jodoin]

I believe Gordon's dilemma is that Grizzly specified a circuit requirement he wasn't going to meet with his current, available, 120 duplex receptacle. So he does already have a problem to resolve prior to use.
Does the Jointer ship with a molded plug attached already? and what is the configuration? Some tools don't ship with the plug attached, and having never seen a Griz' tool, I don't know. If it ship with a 120/15 amp molded plug attached, it better be able to run all day long on a 15 amp protected circuit. If not, it's up to the end user.


According to the manual is comes with a regular 110v plug. OP said they reccommend a 20 AMP breaker but, a 15 AMP breaker won't hurt anything for sure if it runs fine.
I plane 12 inch boards on my DW735 and never tripped the breaker, I can't imagine a 6" jointer needing more than 15 AMP.
I heard that a spiral cutterhead draws more power than straights knifes so if that is true, OP may need a 20A breaker.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have a question.
Have you ever seen a machine/device shipped with a 120/20 amp plug configuration?Not in recent years - but - I can't say I've been looking.
I recall seeing window A/C units - 35/40 years ago that had one..

[Gordon Eyre]

The discussion has been good and has helped me to make the decision to try the 15 amp 110 volt circuit and see how it goes. There is nothing else on that circuit so if the breaker holds I will stay with it. That way I don't have to rewire anything or get a 220 plug. The 220 circuit is there if I ever need it.

[Prashun Patel]

I started with my jointer at 110 and noticed that the voltage sagged on start up. That caused the lights to dim, but more imprtantly, the jointer motor to start slow before spinning up to speed. I may be wron, but that doesnt seem good for the motor. I believe this was exacerbated by the long run of the line to the breaker. This impedes the ability to hold the voltage steady when there is a quick change in current demand like when the motor starts up.

But if you decide you dont like the feel of it as i did not, you can always switch later. Fwiw i did not change the switch, and it has not failed. I have the rigid jointer.

[Gordon Eyre]

I started with my jointer at 110 and noticed that the voltage sagged on start up. That caused the lights to dim, but more imprtantly, the jointer motor to start slow before spinning up to speed. I may be wron, but that doesnt seem good for the motor. I believe this was exacerbated by the long run of the line to the breaker. This impedes the ability to hold the voltage steady when there is a quick change in current demand like when the motor starts up.

But if you decide you dont like the feel of it as i did not, you can always switch later. Fwiw i did not change the switch, and it has not failed. I have the rigid jointer.

Thanks Prashun, if I have any of that at all I will just switch to 220. It is right there where the jointer is to be located so it will not be a big deal at all.

[Jim Neeley]

Gordon,

I too have the Jet 1100B with a 1.5HP motor with a nameplate rating of 15A. It's been running on several different 20A circuits w/o blowing for several years. Technically you aren't supposed to run a 15A load on a 15A breaker; you are supposed to use an 80% multiplier on the breaker sizing. Thus a 20A breaker shouldn't use anything over 16A. I'll admit the NEC is very conservative.

FWIW, if I had breaker trip problems I'd open up the box to check the wire size. If it's 14ga you're stuck but if it's 12ga you could upsize the breaker to 20A 120V and still use the same wiring.

Nothing wrong with going 240 if that pleases you either. It would depend on what you'd want to leave free. <g>

Jim in Alaska

[Rick Fisher]

I tend to believe in watts.

I would run it 110V when you get it .. see how it goes .. We over complicate this stuff, wondering if we notice a difference. End of the day, a 1.5hp motor capable of running 110V or 220V simply wants 1650 watts available..

I'm also willing to bet the motor has a thermal overload .. I hope it does..

[Leo Graywacz]

The 80% rule is for continuous load. Like a lighting cicuit.

[Aleks Hunter]

That's not strictly correct, and a good way to haphazardly (hazard, get it?) burn out motors. YOu can have too much power available. You have to size the circuit to the equipment both high and low current wise especially when the equipment's motor loading is task dependent. A 5 hp (to keep it simple) motor draws 4kw at rated power or about 21 amps. IT is not a good idea to wire it into a 50 amp circuit. If you're running a planer or sander or gang rip saw and have the feed rate and bite too aggressive you can easily draw twice that much power. That is why they have ammeters on better high power equipment. If you don't back it off immediately you will notice a foulstench and see smoke from the motor. Its absolutely preferable to put 25-30 amp breaker and reset it that it is to tear out and replace a motor. Circuit breakers are cheap , motors aren't.

[Leo Graywacz]

Once you let the magic smoke out you can't put it back. LOL

[Jim Neeley]

That's not strictly correct, and a good way to haphazardly (hazard, get it?) burn out motors. YOu can have too much power available. You have to size the circuit to the equipment both high and low current wise especially when the equipment's motor loading is task dependent. A 5 hp (to keep it simple) motor draws 4kw at rated power or about 21 amps. IT is not a good idea to wire it into a 50 amp circuit. If you're running a planer or sander or gang rip saw and have the feed rate and bite too aggressive you can easily draw twice that much power. That is why they have ammeters on better high power equipment. If you don't back it off immediately you will notice a foulstench and see smoke from the motor. Its absolutely preferable to put 25-30 amp breaker and reset it that it is to tear out and replace a motor. Circuit breakers are cheap , motors aren't.

Aleks: If your jurisdiction falls under the NEC:

To oversize the breaker under 430 of the NEC you must comply with all of the requirements of section 430 of the NEC. That section requires, amongst other things, that to oversize the breaker the motor must contain internal thermal overload protection. The thermal overload's job is to provide this protection.

Jim

[Jim Neeley]

The 80% rule is for continuous load. Like a lighting cicuit.

All,

Please understand that my response is not one of one-ups-man-ship or intended to strike a verbal war. It's just my interpretation that this table (which effectively applies the 80% rule) applies here.

The NEC is, in general, a well written document but the nature of the beast is such that it often takes reading a number of the sections together as a whole to understand the specific issue at hand. Compounding its understanding is the generally accepted rule that you can do about anything that's not expressly prohibited,

This leads to many cases where interpretations differ either because two people read the same words differently or because one did not consider what is said in some other section.

This is why you hear so many recommendations to talk to your AHF (Authority Having Jurisdiction [inspector]) for your area,.

Leo,

Section 210.19B does differentiate between continuous (may be used at least once at this load for 3 hours) vs. discontinuous load on applying the 80% rule (they invert it and say the wiring must handle 125% of course). Assuming that it will never be used for 3 hours at at a time, Section 210.19B does not limit us to 80%. Another section however I interpret as being more restrictive.

I am referring to Section 210.21(B)(2). That refers to cord-and-plug connected load. I have pasted the all of 210.21 below for clarity.


Please understand that my response is not one of one-ups-man-ship or intended to strike a verbal war. It's just my interpretation that this table (which effectively applies the 80% rule) applies here.

210.21 Outlet Devices. Outlet devices shall have an ampere
rating that is not less than the load to be served and
shall comply with 210.21(A) and (B).
(A) Lampholders. Where connected to a branch circuit
having a rating in excess of 20 amperes, lampholders shall
be of the heavy-duty type. A heavy-duty lampholder shall
have a rating of not less than 660 watts if of the admedium
type, or not less than 750 watts if of any other type.
(B) Receptacles.
(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit.
A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit
shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch
circuit.
Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed in accordance with
430.81(B).
Exception No. 2: A receptacle installed exclusively for the
use of a cord-and-plug-connected arc welder shall be permitted
to have an ampere rating not less than the minimum
branch-circuit conductor ampacity determined by 630.11(A)
for arc welders.
FPN: See the definition of receptacle in Article 100.
(2) Total Cord-and-Plug-Connected Load. Where connected
to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles
or outlets, a receptacle shall not supply a total cord-
and-plug-connected load in excess of the maximum
specified in Table 210.21(B)(2).


Table 210.21(B)(2) Maximum Cord-and-Plug-Connected
Load to Receptacle
Circuit Rating (Amperes) Receptacle Rating (Amperes) Maximum Load (Amperes)
15 or 20 15 12
20 20 16
30 30 24

I reiterate that I have no intent on starting a flaming war here; I am merely station my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim