Comments on using a diamond plate on a WorkSharp 3000

[Mike Henderson]

Prashun Patel sent me a private message asking for comments on the use of a diamond plate on the WorkSharp 3000 (referred to as WS from here on). Instead of sending an answer to him privately, I'm going to post my comments here, in case others are interested.

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First, let me comment on how I use the WS so you'll know where I'm coming from. When I get a new chisel or plane blade, I prepare it in the standard manner by polishing the back. For chisels, I establish the primary bevel at 25 degrees on the WS, then put a secondary bevel using Shapton stones, up through 8000. For block planes, the final bevel is to be 25 degrees so I put a very slight secondary bevel on the blade, making it maybe 27 degrees. I give up the 2 degrees in order to get faster and easier sharpening (I don't have to work the entire bevel on my Shaptons).

I teach hand cut dovetails and the students use my chisels so I do a lot of sharpening after each class. I want a system that's quick but still provides a good edge. The 25 degree primary bevel with a secondary bevel at a higher angle, such as 30 to 35 degrees works well for me.

I have plain carbon steel chisels, A2 chisels (mostly LNs) and now the LV PM-V11 chisels. I've sharpened all of them on the WS and with the diamond plate.

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I don't have a lot of experience with the diamond plate yet. I only received it a few days ago (maybe a week) and have used it to sharpen only a handful of chisels and three block plane blades.

I bought the plate on eBay. A similar plate can be seen at item number 370840341830 (if you're reading this a month after this posting, the number probably won't work). The plates come in different grits and seem to be aimed at the lapidary trade - people who shape and polish rocks. The plate was $12 with about $6.50 in shipping. When I ordered it, I didn't know what grit to purchase so I ordered an 80 grit - mistake, it's too coarse.

Okay, pictures. Here's a picture of the plate. It's 3/64th thick, pretty thin. It's 6" in diameter.

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And here's my WS. I did a Fine Woodworking on it and cleaned it up before taking this picture.
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The center hole is just about the perfect size. It's a bit too big but not big enough that you can offset it enough that it will hit the sides of the WS.
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I just put a glass wheel over it and put the center screw in to hold everything in place. I left the old sandpaper on the bottom of the glass plate.
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Results: It works much like the sandpaper I was using earlier but 80 grit is too coarse. I'm going to order a 120 grit to see how that works. I can't say yet how long it will last. My hope is that if the lapidary people are satisfied with the disks, the disks will last an acceptable time grinding steel.

Questions? Comments? Anyone else use a diamond plate on a WS?

Mike

[Derrell W Sloan]

Glad to see this post. I have been wondering about using these diamond plates on my WS3000 as well. Was there any issue with flatness of the plate you got? If the plates are flat I see no reason they wouldn't work just as good or better than sand paper or the diamond disks that DMT sells for the WS3000. Did the 80 grit diamond plate seem coarser to you than 80 grit sandpaper?

[Mike Henderson]

Glad to see this post. I have been wondering about using these diamond plates on my WS3000 as well. Was there any issue with flatness of the plate you got? If the plates are flat I see no reason they wouldn't work just as good or better than sand paper or the diamond disks that DMT sells for the WS3000. Did the 80 grit diamond plate seem coarser to you than 80 grit sandpaper?
The disks seem to be flat. But remember, I backed the disk with a glass plate. I wouldn't recommend trying to use a disk without the glass plate. I think it would deflect in that case.

The grit appears to be about the same as sandpaper. I thought it might be a bit less rough and that's why I ordered an 80 grit. But 80 is too coarse unless you have to take a lot of metal off. I just ordered a 120 and a 180 so I'll let people know how those work.

I suppose you could go much finer to polish a bevel but that's not what I use the WS for.

Mike

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks, Mike. Just ordered a 120. At that price, can't really go wrong. Question: I also use my Shaptons now up to 8000. What grits do you do on the Worksharp? I go through a lot of 400's and 1000's, and it seems that'd be a good place for the diamond plates.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks, Mike. Just ordered a 120. At that price, can't really go wrong. Question: I also use my Shaptons now up to 8000. What grits do you do on the Worksharp? I go through a lot of 400's and 1000's, and it seems that'd be a good place for the diamond plates.

I would establish the primary bevel with 120 grit sandpaper and then go to my 4000 Shapton to put the secondary bevel on.

Mike

[Jim Neeley]

Mike,

Do you flatten the backs by hand or on the WS3000? I'd like to think the glass plate / sandpaper on the WS3000 would be like Scairy-Sharp on steroids but I'm concerned about creating a belly.

Jim in Alaska

[Mike Henderson]

Mike,

Do you flatten the backs by hand or on the WS3000? I'd like to think the glass plate / sandpaper on the WS3000 would be like Scairy-Sharp on steroids but I'm concerned about creating a belly.

Jim in Alaska
All of the plane blades and chisels that I've purchased recently are modern ones, which have flat backs. I just polish them. I do it on the Shaptons - I'm just afraid of using the WS because it may take too much off one side and create a convex back.

Mike

[Prashun Patel]

Mike, I just received my 120gt disc. Can't wait to try it tonight. There's a chisel I want to change from 25 to 20 degrees.

The price is so attractive, I'm considering getting some more closer to 1000. Do you go straight from the 120 (or 80) to a 1000 stone?

Also, the thickness concerns me. I sharpen above the table. You seem to sharpen only below; what do you use to establish a primary on plane blades?

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, I just received my 120gt disc. Can't wait to try it tonight. There's a chisel I want to change from 25 to 20 degrees.

The price is so attractive, I'm considering getting some more closer to 1000. Do you go straight from the 120 (or 80) to a 1000 stone?

Also, the thickness concerns me. I sharpen above the table. You seem to sharpen only below; what do you use to establish a primary on plane blades?

I've been sharpening large plane blades on my water stones (only). I can fit block plane blades in the holder of the WS. I go straight from the WS (at 120) to my 4000 stones to put the secondary bevel on. Then to the 8000 stone. The only part of the blade that matters is the arris. If both sides of the arris are polished, it doesn't matter how far back they're polished (as long as it's reasonable). So if the secondary bevel is 1/16" to 1/8", that's fine. By the time I sharpen on my 4000 and 8000 the secondary bevel is that big.

Mike

I should get the 120 and the 180 disks today. I'll see how they work. Maybe I'll try a much finer disk later - like the 1000 - just to make the primary bevel look better:).

[Larry Frank]

This has been an interesting thread. I will really be glad to see the results of using the different grits.

Of course the question is how well do they work and the economics compared to the normal grit papers.

Please post as much detail as possible on how you used them and the results.

[Prashun Patel]

I love the 120. Works as mike said. It works so fast. If the plate lasts as long as i expect, this will be the best 18 bucks ive spent this year.

[Mike Henderson]

I received a 120 and 180 grit. Now, take this with a grain of salt because most diamond media is pretty aggressive when new but becomes less aggressive after some use.

Given that, I found the 180 grit worked best for me when the media is new. But I suspect that the 120 will be a little less aggressive once it's use a bit. So it's hard to give a recommendation at this time, other than to say that the 120 or the 180 will probably work fine.

Mike

[Prashun Patel]

Mike, I'm curious what you mean by 'too aggressive' on the 120. It seems easy to control, so the aggressiveness is a boon.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, I'm curious what you mean by 'too aggressive' on the 120. It seems easy to control, so the aggressiveness is a boon.
I agree that it removes metal at a rapid rate and it's easy to control. My objection is that it leaves fairly deep grooves in the primary bevel.

I don't need a disk to take off a lot of metal (most of the time), I just need to re-establish the primary bevel, so I prefer a disk that works a bit slower but leaves a bit smoother surface. Just personal preference.

Mike

[Prashun Patel]

Curse you, Mike!!!! You just sent me back to the bay to fish for some more discs. Great find.

[Larry Frank]

Can you guys tell me which seller on the bay you dealt with. I guess that now, I will have to try them and get a 120 and 180.

[Mike Henderson]

Can you guys tell me which seller on the bay you dealt with. I guess that now, I will have to try them and get a 120 and 180.

I got mine from a guy named "jadecarver". However, I found them by searching on - 6" diamond lap disk -. There's a bunch of people selling these disks, although some want pretty high prices for them.

Mike

[Derrell W Sloan]

FYI, in looking around I found you can also find these disks on Amazon for around the same price

http://www.amazon.com/Quality-Electroplated-Diamond-coated-wheel/dp/B00BB13XD8


or

http://lapidarytool.com/cart/index.php?_a=category&cat_id=46 (http://www.amazon.com/Quality-Electroplated-Diamond-coated-wheel/dp/B00BB13XD8)

[Mike Henderson]

FYI, in looking around I found you can also find these disks on Amazon for around the same price

http://www.amazon.com/Quality-Electroplated-Diamond-coated-wheel/dp/B00BB13XD8


or

(http://www.amazon.com/Quality-Electroplated-Diamond-coated-wheel/dp/B00BB13XD8)http://lapidarytool.com/cart/index.php?_a=category&cat_id=46

Thanks. Those are good prices.

Mike

[Derrell W Sloan]

Update - I went to order from the lapidarytool.com site and shipping for two discs was ~ $25 so its not a good deal compared to the ebay or amazon sources

[Phil Thien]

The Amazon seller (Kent Blades) offers disks in these grits:

60, 80, 100, 150, 240, 320, 500, 800, 1200, 1500, 3000


Which disks would you guys suggest for me knowing that:

(1) I sometimes use my WS3000 to fix-up rummage-sale finds where a new primary bevel has to be established, and this sometimes required removing a bit of steel.

(2) I do almost all my sharpening on the WS3000. I don't have any stones like the Shaptons or anything to go to after the Worksharp. So I flatten the back, get a good primary bevel, and then I've been using one of the finer disks from Worksharp (I wish I knew the grit I'm using) to put a very small micro-bevel on my chisel.

(3) I do primarily chisels and a block plane blade. I primarily use these for finish carpentry tasks (butt hinges and lock sets, etc.). That is, I like sharp but I don't need to go nuts because I'm not doing the finer dovetail work you guys do. As they are now my chisels do a nice job on doors. But I sure wouldn't mind disks that last longer or cut faster.

[Mike Henderson]

It's hard for me to give you a recommendation because I finish on water stones, but a 120 will quickly shape a bevel. I would guess that a 500 would give you a pretty good (smooth) edge for what you want, but I haven't used a 500. At the price of the plates, I'd probably order a 120, a 500, and maybe a 1200 just to bracket the grits.

Mike

[Prashun Patel]

Phil,
I also finish on my waterstones, but to be honest, it's really hard to beat that micromesh honing wheel on the ws, so I often finish finishing on that...

The 120 is IMHO perfect for rehabbing blades It flattens and establishes a new bevel so quickly it feels like cheating.

Also, don't mistake sharp, honed chisels and plane blades for being limited to 'finer dovetail' work. If you want to pare mortises and locksets minimal effort in a variety of wood types, you want it honed nicely.

If I were not using my shaptons, I'd probably buy the following wheels:

120, 400, 1000, 3000*.

* The original micromesh honing discs seem to wear very well, and I think I might just stick with those for the final polishing.

[Harold Burrell]

The Amazon seller (Kent Blades) offers disks in these grits:

60, 80, 100, 150, 240, 320, 500, 800, 1200, 1500, 3000



OK...I'm not finding this. In fact, I only see 3 grits on there 60, 260 & 1500.

[Derrell W Sloan]

Harold,

Try clicking on the Amazon link above. I just tried it and I see all those grits offered.

[Phil Thien]

Okay, I ended up getting a 150 (they don't sell 120 and I thought 100 would be too much), 500, and 1200, and I will keep the Micromesh for final honing and see how it goes. Thanks guys!

[Harold Burrell]

Harold,

Try clicking on the Amazon link above. I just tried it and I see all those grits offered.

oh...oops...thanks...:o

[Mike Leung]

Can i use a 60 grit diamond plate to do the work of a bench grinder when I need to shape metal quickly? I am looking at getting a WS3000 to sharpen chisels and plane blades. If the WS can also do rough work, I will not even bother getting a bench grinder as well to save space.

[John Bullock]

On the Stumpy Nubs site they talk about making MDF disks for the WS3000. Has anyone tried that in place of using the glass disks? I am looking to acquire and WS3000 and am curious as to how the MDF disks work out.

[Mike Henderson]

Can i use a 60 grit diamond plate to do the work of a bench grinder when I need to shape metal quickly? I am looking at getting a WS3000 to sharpen chisels and plane blades. If the WS can also do rough work, I will not even bother getting a bench grinder as well to save space.
The motor on the WS is not really powerful. It'll probably work but you might have to go slow.

Mike

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Can i use a 60 grit diamond plate to do the work of a bench grinder when I need to shape metal quickly? I am looking at getting a WS3000 to sharpen chisels and plane blades. If the WS can also do rough work, I will not even bother getting a bench grinder as well to save space.

I have the WS 2000 and often use it to shape small metal pieces. The 2000 spins faster than the 3000 so it is better for rough grinding. The 2000, however, cannot take the glass wheel due to the higher speed. I wish I had gotten the 3000.

[Harold Burrell]

Now that you guys have been using these for awhile, how are they holding up?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Now that you guys have been using these for awhile, how are they holding up?

I love it, and surprisingly even the sandpaper discs hold up much longer than expected. I bought it to sharpen my machete but also use it to grind bevels or remove really bad nicks. Go for the 3,000 because it has more accessories and spins slower so you can do more fine work. The 2000 is still great and I love mine.

[Prashun Patel]

I've been using my 120 grit diamond disc for a few months, but recently just got a 240 and a 500. I now use my WS exclusively for grinding, and my Shaptons for honing.

To grind, I mount the thin diamond disc right on top of the glass wheel on the WS. The nut holds it in place just fine. I sharpen above the table with a platform and an MKII honing guide.

The wonderful thing about these discs is that if you level the platform with the top of the *glass* disc, and then mount the diamond disc on top of that, you will grind a slightly shallower angle than whatever your honing guide is set to.

After the grind is established (and this takes literally seconds, even on an wide, thick blade) when you move to the Waterstones (or even if you just used the Micromesh honing discs on the WS such that the platform and the glass disc are level) the honing angle will be slightly more acute - just enough to establish a microbevel.

Before, when I went from the 120 diamond straight up to my 1000 stone, then 4000 and finally 8000, I could never get a mirror polish. But going to 240 and then 500 before the stone has been allowing me to really get great polish now.

I have been trying my hand at freehand, hollow grind sharpening. However, I have to say that the WS with the diamond discs makes it SO fast and SO perfect, it's hard to switch. Of course, the other nice thing is that flattening the backs takes under a minute - even for the gnarliest of blades.

The other great thing about the lapidary discs (besides their insanely low price) is that they don't require adhesive. They just clamp in place on the glass disc.

As for how long they last, the 120 has lasted AT LEAST 3-4x as long as my paper discs and shows now sign of wear so far. They are low enough priced that even if it wears out soon, it'll have been worth it.

[Derrell W Sloan]

I'll add a review as well. I got a 100 grit diamond disk in hopes that it would be good for initial grinding or for removing nicks, etc. It works great! I use it mostly through the bottom sharpening port - I put the disk face down and then place a glass disk on top of it. I fixed up a number of chisels for a friend that were in bad shape and the disk handled them superbly. I'm sold on the diamond disks and am definitely going to get some finer and coarser disks to add to the collection.