How did your sharpening system develop?

[Tony Wilkins]

Tell me your sharpening story. I see what some of your stories are in answer to the myriad questions on sharpening. I've been trying to refine my sharpening technique and I'm hoping to learn from your journey. SO, please tell, what was the evolution of your trip to the sharp end of a tool?

[Don Dorn]

I can't lay claim to any of my own methods. First, I used the LN (Deneb Pulchalkski) method - worked fine, but opted to lose the guide and went to the Cosman method. That worked well and I didn't change for any other reason than Paul Sellers method looked inviting, so that's what I use now. I don't know that the irons are any sharper than the other methods, but it's fast, nearly eliminates grinding time and gives a convex bevel which I believe gives additional strength to the cutting edge.

[Roy Lindberry]

Tell me your sharpening story. I see what some of your stories are in answer to the myriad questions on sharpening. I've been trying to refine my sharpening technique and I'm hoping to learn from your journey. SO, please tell, what was the evolution of your trip to the sharp end of a tool?

I began with Cosman's method, but on oilstones, since I was only using O1 at the time. Eventually, I got a few A2 blades, picked up some Nortons, and continued his method. I've since started using Paul Sellers' method, since it seemed quicker, and less accuracy was required. Both are true. I'm tired of the mess of waterstones, and the continued need to flatten, so I am planning to buy some diamond stones in the very near future.

As of now, I have absolutely zero desire to find a method other than the one that I'm currently using (Sellers'). It is freehand, quick, easy, and consistent. I don't know if the convex bevel makes the edge any stronger or not, but I like it for the other reasons.

[Mike Henderson]

I did a lot of experimentation with various techniques. What I found was the easiest is to use the WorkSharp 3000 to establish the primary bevel at 25 degrees, and then to put a secondary bevel on with Shapton stones.

Just recently, I bought a 6" diamond disk for the WorkSharp and it seems to be working well. Hopefully, it'll last longer than the sandpaper I was using previously.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

My first big expense in the saga of tool sharpening was for a Veritas Mk II power sharpening system. It was a review in Fine Woodworking that sold me on the product and I still feel it was money well spent.

After that investing in some water stones got me to sharp by hand.

I have had oilstones for years, but didn't get good at using them until after using abrasive sheets and water stones.

Each media has its own little quirks that need to be finessed in a different manner.

For most plane or chisel blades my water stones are the preferred sharpening media.

jtk

[Archie England]

Tell me your sharpening story. I see what some of your stories are in answer to the myriad questions on sharpening. I've been trying to refine my sharpening technique and I'm hoping to learn from your journey. SO, please tell, what was the evolution of your trip to the sharp end of a tool?

Such a sad, sad story it is.... Used a terrible oil stone (dished, etc) growing up. Too cheap to buy right, I started with that el cheapo method of sandpaper. Got mixed to terrible results. Bought thick glass, more sandpaper, spray adhesive, etc. and realized this wasn't very cheap anymore. Bought a Horror Freight grinder and buffing wheel for rehabbing tools. Liked it, but thought a variable speed with better wheels would be better: bought a Delta 6". Eck gads that puppy could dance. Got the wheels balanced but had lost considerable diameter. Gave said, sad grinder to young friend just getting starting and bought an 8". Repeat same experience (when will I learn that cheap is not necessarily cheap?) on balancing 8". Get a NICE Christmas present from aged Grandmother (who's tired of me wasting my money) so that I can invest in a Tormek 2000. Ah, sweet success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I learned how to get chisels, plane blades, and turning tools really sharp. I'm satisfied....Well, until I have trouble with blade backs that are terrible. Added an India stone (sounded to much like nails on a chalk board), bought a nice oil stones (slowwwwwwwwwly did it work), tried a DMT (got mixed results), and then met Schtoo at Tools from Japan. Okay, so I bought a few Sigma Pro stones. Not at first, no, I bought cheap: used Nortons. And they worked better than oil--but that wasn't too great. Wow, now the Sigmas taught me sharp beyond Tormek. I'm set for life and will soon open a museum for discarded sharpening systems. I learned how to freehand along the way. Now, I can achieve sharp by any of these means. My favorite, most used, and most bullet proof are the Sigma Power stones (along with an occasional Chosera and Bester). And, I'm not really stuck on any one method.

[Winton Applegate]

Well you asked for it. I am banished where ever I go because of my sharpening "faith". Well facts and physics actually. Faith comes in when I take the blade across the last stone and rinse it and dry it. I have faith there is nothing I can do to make it cut gnarly wood any better and pretty darn sure nobody else on the planet can either.

In short attention to detail and facts coming off the blade.
A.D.D. and hear say is the enemy of a properly sharpened plane blade.
Maybe you mean my sharpening media.
I started with a 1200 red water stone. After much effort and study I learned it was too fine to get rid of dull and too coarse to get a blade really sharp.
Before that as a kid I wasted many a session with cheep poorly selected Arkansas stones.
Then I went to my first Woodcraft store and discovered Norton water stones and then diamond plates.
Able to produce a decent edge.
Bought a few sharpening jigs and that was eye opening.
The difference between free hand sharpening and jig sharpening is the difference between making round things by holding the stock in your hand and going at it with a cutting tool held in the other
OR
Turning the round thing on a lathe.
Yah, yah don't start guys I've heard it before.


T H E N N N N N
Oh yah dog :p
I discovered Shapton Pro stones.
the Nortons were reassigned to door stop duty ESPECIALLY that absolute piece of pooooo the 220 gray Norton. I have heard people have good ones. Mine is soft and crumbly and useless.


NOW
along the way I experimented with "holding" the stones by various means. Fairly early on I had that eureka moment that I am very thankful for. You may have seen the sticky pad that comes with something or other I forget what now; must be the diamond plate.


Anyway I have this 1/8 inch thick sheet neoprene I cover bench tops used for mechanical rebuild work. Can get it by the yard at the local pneumatic and bearing supply store. This stuff is not soft at all it is like shiny finished hard rubber.


I took a two foot by one foot hunk of it
spritzed a bit of water on the linoleum counter and rubbed it around and back and forth.
Capillary action causes it to stick fast like a suction cup.
Then
I wet the stone and rub it around and it too sticks fast.
Too simple huh ?
:cool:
If it gets too wet it may move but that is a lot of water. By that point water is running down the side of the counter anyway.
Take a wash rag and wipe the excess up and it sticks again.
I rinse my stones under a running facet between blades so that is when I take a quick wipe at the neoprene to get the excess water and slurry off.
Now . . . well now my blades are so sharp when I approach my arm hair with a sharpened blade the hair pull themselves out and run away rather than be cut by the blade.
:)
We are talking shaving curls off a single hair verified by optical magnification. No I am not kidding (except about the running away bit) (they escape quietly while I am still sharpening).
Of coarse this means nothing to planing wood.
Planing rowed and reversing grain and figured purple heart with zero tear out.
Well
That was my goal and that is what I have achieved.
Oh and strops
Been there in every which direction.
Forget strops whether wheels or flat.
For plane blades.
Carving chisels strops are good for but not plane blades.
THE END

[Brian Ashton]

I went off on a different tangent to pretty much anyone I know or have come across. I discovered the true virtues of slow speed grinding back in the early eighties when I bought my first lathe. To cut costs (at that time there were no cheap chinese crap grinders) I added a mandrel and grinding wheel to the outboard side of the lathe. What I discovered was that I could grind in a much more controlled way and not worry about over heating the edge simply by turning the speed down to 300rpm. Fast forward 20 years I hadn't forgotten the lesson learned about slow speed grinding and I wanted to expand upon it... At that time I had my own shop thus I was in a position where I could do what I wanted... So I revisited the concept of slow speed grinding by incorporating a VFD to a 3ph motor attached to a double ended mandrel bought from Lee Valley... A number of years later I added a multi layered disk of MDF to the other end of the mandrel that was coated in a liberal layer of white buffing compound... With that I was able to go from the grinding wheel straight to the MDF disk and produce an edge that was exceptionally sharp. I could hone the ground edge as well has polish the backs while maintaining a nice flat surface... For the most part I my stones have been sitting idle for the last 10 years.

I've attached an old pic of the sharpening set up. I have a new set up that has bevels on either side of the MDF wheel that allows me to sharpen knives now on both sides so my kitchen knives are surgically sharp - tomatoes don't stand a chance...

I've recently added a secondary wheel that allows me to hone the inside of gouges. So for the most part I've done away with stones and slip stones. Because the speeds are around 300 rpm swapping wheels, even wheels that are out of round, is fine because the rpms are well below any critical level of balance... Over all the process produces a mirror edge that is more than sharp enough.

[Kees Heiden]

First an India combination stone from the hardware store. I was not impressed. So I tried scary sharp and wasn't impressed with that either. I got serious with planes so a solution had to be found and I ordered some Naniwa Superstones. That was seriously good stuff. Also bought an Eclipse style jig and was happy for a while. And a DMT coarse/xcoarse for flattening the stones. I tried a LV jig for a while but foudn it clumsy heavy, slow and too complicated.

A dry grinder came into the shop, sometime later I bought a Norton blue wheel and a diamond dresser for this thing. Still use it a lot.

But the 800 Naniwa wears at an alarming rate and I wanted some extra stones. So I went to Stu in Japan and bought a Sigma 1000 and 120. Bought a Bester 400 and 4000 overhere in Europe, because shipping costs from Japan are quite high. This is the set now and I am very happy with it.

The eclipse is now living a quiet life in a dusty dark corner, because I went freehand.

Because I am starting to dabble a bit into the world of gouges, I dug out the India stone again, bought a secondhand translucent Arkansas and found some leather. That's what I am playing with at the moment when I have some time.

Freehand means: Making a hollow grind on the grinder, almost to the edge. Finish on the 400 stone to raise a wireedge, resting the iron on the hollow. Do the same on the 1000 stone. Flaten the back a bit to remove the wireedge and any wearbevel on the back. Then on to the 8000 stone, raise the iron a little above the hollow and polish a very small secondairy angle and do the back again. On subsequent sharpenings I do the 1000 and 8000 dance again until it takes too much time to raise a wireedge again and go back to the grinder.
Sometimes I use the 4000 in between for an especially sharp edge. Error I made until recently is making the secondairy bevel too large so it takes too much time in the next sharpening to raise a wireedge again.

[Joe Mioux]

Scary sharp method, to water stone/veritas jig, to slow speed grinder/oneway jigs, to tormek.

i like water stones

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I began with a large flat stone (purchased from Woodcraft), sandpaper, and a honing guide. Had good results and sharp tools. Somewhere in there I purchased some diamond stones because I heard they were faster.

When I had a bunch of chisels in serious need of rehab, I purchased a Worksharp system for a bundle of money. I had mixed results with the worksharp, so I purchased a used Tormek and I had immediate excellent results and it is my go-to machine to put a hollow-grind onto a chisel or plane blade. I was not happy with the knife jig and I have not found any powered system that helped flatten the back with success by me.

Because I was not happy with how my knives turned out, I chatted with a fellow Creeker who learned to sharpen knives in cullinary school, and I purchased a couple of waterstones. I won't even bother discussing what I had tried with knives before that. Well, it was the sharpest I had ever made a knife. I will admit to using a Worksharp knife sharpening setup that also works very well.

My current (typical) sharpening attack is to flatten the backs on a diamond stone followed by a water stone. After that it is on to the Tormek for a hollow grind and initial polish on the hollow-grind. I then free hand my chisels while working to keep them very sharp. I am not as good at free-handing with a plane blade and may drag out a guide, but I expect I will get better at that as I use more hand planes.

So, I use a 5000 Shapton Pro stone with a final polish with a Shapton 16000 glass stone.

I purchased some leather, which I will eventually use to create some strops, but, with the 16000 stone, I could not convince myself it was worth the time to figure out how to glue the leather to some wood (or the time to make a nice handle).

[Jim Matthews]

I started with the previously mentioned honing guide plus Shapton stone method as recommended by LN.
It really works, but is dependent on maintaining the stone to keep it flat.

I used a diamond stone to dress them, and dealt with extensive cleanup aftewards.
While the finish was exemplary, I don't have a sink in my basement shop.

I've converted to the freehand convex bevel as recommended by Paul Sellers.
I use a coarse DMT, fine and super-fine Atoma.

If I need to grind or flatten steel, I use sandpaper on a granite substrate.
It's VERY messy and I can't find a better way to perform those tasks, without electricity.

I find that the combination of steel, abrasive and machine oil I use is indelible on wood - and transfers from one surface to another.

Even with gloves on - this step leaves a trail of sooty fingerprints.

It's worth noting that I don't have the hardest steel in either my planes or chisels.
I expect that most of my tools go "off" faster than the current offerings,
but I can also get them back to work quickly ( about 90 seconds, running through all the grits ).

Every edge tool gets stropped.

The strop is the only part I keep on my workbench, as it doesn't generate any appreciable mess.
I believe my work in wood has improved with a sharper set of cutting tools.

It bears mentioning, that I neither turn on a lathe or cut with any fine gouges - most of my edges are straight.

I'm unsure that my method would be equally effective on harder steels, such as the LV and Blue Spruce chisels.

[Mark Dorman]

I started with Scary sharp and a MKII honing guide. Got the PSA sandpaper from Tools for Working Wood.
It worked great and I feel it was a good way to get started sharpening. After using sandpaper for a couple years and reading everything I could find here on Sawmill Creek I made the switch to Shapton pros and a DMT duo sharp and don't use the guide much anymore.

[Winton Applegate]

Scary sharp method, to water stone/veritas jig, to slow speed grinder/oneway jigs, to tormek.

i like water stones

Joe Mioux,

Obviously yours a master piece of info and brevity. I bow to you sir.
Nice to see we ended up on the same or similar destination.

[Joe Mioux]

Joe Mioux,

Obviously yours a master piece of info and brevity. I bow to you sir.
Nice to see we ended up on the same or similar destination.

Thanks, :)

[Chris Griggs]

Like many, I technically started with sandpaper (using and eclipse style guide), but that didn't last more than a couple months. As soon as I realized I liked handtools I bought a norton 1k/8k combo stone. This served me very well for couple years, and though I no longer use it I still have it. I eventually got an MKII guide but that was also right about the time I got my 6" grinder. I sold the MKII about a month after I got it as I quickly started to prefer free-handing once i got my grinder (though I did keep the eclipse).

Not long after I started freehand sharpening I met Archie who was just getting into water stone and boy DID HE GET INTO STONES. Through him I tried Sigmas, Chosera's, and Besters, and Gesshins, as well as arkansas stones.

I ended up with a couple arks of my own as well as a couple sigmas and Naniwas of my own.

Today my primary method of tools is grinder (when needed) to chosera 800 to Naniwa Snow white 8k and then if I need and ultra fine edge (smoothers and parers) to my .5 micron chromium oxide. I mostly freehand on the hollow grind but have started to pull out my eclipse guide from time to time for certain blades. I still have a set of nice oil stones including newish india's, halls arks (soft and surgical black), as well a fantastic Pike No. 1 Washita that Dave Weaver sold me for a song. While I do like to bring my black ark down to the shop from time to time (and do love my oil stones in general) I mostly use my oil stones for knives and straight razors. For tools I have a strong personal​ (though not specific) preferance for a setup that involves a hollow grind and a pair of sythnetic stones.

[Matthew Hills]

... I have absolutely zero desire to find a method other than the one that I'm currently using (Sellers'). It is freehand, quick, easy, and consistent. I don't know if the convex bevel makes the edge any stronger or not, but I like it for the other reasons.

I'd be surprised if the convex bevel is stronger than putting on a flat primary bevel at the same angle as you've got with the convex bevel... but people seem to get good results and are happy with the expediency and being able to get back to work.


My steps:
1. Borg sharpening stone + honing oil (with some irwin chisels and a stanley handyman plane)
2. Polar Bear 1k/6k combination waterstone from Woodcraft. Had trouble with flattening. (Norton pink flattening brick no good; ended up using DMT whetstones from local hardware stores). Used a Veritas Mk II sharpening jig, but a bit frustrated with some tools skewing a bit. Had a LN block plane and some Ashley Iles chisels by this point.
3. Worksharp 3000. Worked okay for some tools narrow enough for the port, but I disliked working on the top side
4. Schtoo: sigma stones + atoma plate for flattening. Work well. (I am also using an eclipse-style guide in the Deneb/Charlesworth styles if I am using a guide).
5. Added a 7" vintage grinder -- mostly for major reshaping, such as removing chips or putting on a lot of camber for a jack-scrub plane. I don't grind most of my other blades.

From reading the other posts, seems like anyone should be able to slide through the various options quite cheaply by just borrowing the previous guy's cast-offs...

Matt

[Zach Dillinger]

I started with an old oilstone that I found at a yard sale. I rapidly progressed to waterstones. I used them for a while before realizing that it made very little sense (to me, anyway) to expose my steel tools to large amounts of water, so I went back to oilstones. I purchased some quality stones and I've found a couple of really high end stones at antique stores, including a lovely German razor stone. I now finish on a trans ark I bought from a guy on Craiglist then run it over a piece of 4" wide leather belting to strop it down. Works very well. I just found some more pieces of that belting (thought I passed on all my spare pieces), I should let some go.

[Tim Put]

1: Scary sharp like most. Later I added a diamond paste loaded MDF strop
2: Switched out the sandpaper for DMT stones, then EZE-lap when I discovered they're both better and cheaper.
3: Added an excessive amount of grinding equipment, a felt wheel, and made some MDF wheels
Plus a disturbing amount of miscellany.

Presently I grind every bevel (including my Japanese bench chisels) with a freshly dressed coarse grey 6" wheel, followed by a (freehanded) touch on a 1200 grit eze-lap, followed by either: the felt wheel for carving tools and knives, an MDF wheel for most other things, or one of too many other options for touch up at the bench.

My felt and MDF wheels are on bolts that fit the quick change adapter Beall sells. The grey wheel is on the other side of the same grinder.

[Erik Christensen]

Started with a Tormek - great for lathe chisels but not fast enough for planes. Added veritas jig and norton 4k/8k stones and see no need for anything more. If I need to remove a nick in the blade or regrind the hollow bevel I use the Tormek - for the edge touchups every hour while working the Nortons let me get back to work in just a few minutes. I tried the hand sharpening like in the Rob C videos - it worked but my inability to keep a consistent micro-bevel meant I had to break out the Tormek more often to start from scratch with a fresh hollow grind.

I am good as long as I keep my eyes closed and don't start looking at any other vodeos.

[Steve Friedman]

Wow, great thread. Here's my progression (sort of):

1. Started with 2 x 6 DMT Dia-Sharp plates and leather strop because it was just for carving knives.
2. Added DMT Duo-Sharp and Veritas Mk II honing guide after I got my first hand plane.
3. Added Viel 1 x 42 belt sander from Lee Valley
4. Added extra Viel jigs directly from the company
5. Added Veritas MK II power sharpener
6. Added Norton 200 grit water stone
7. Added Wet/Dry sandpaper on granite tile
8. Added Klingspor PSA sandpaper on glass
9. Added Diamond Paste with Kanaban plates
10. Added 7" slow speed Baldor Grinder
11. Added 12 " x 18" x 3" granite plate
12. Added Eclipse-style honing jig
13. Added PSA micro-abrasives on the granite
14. Added Norton 3X sandpaper with spray adhesive on the granite
15. Added 3M Gold PSA sandpaper on the granite
16. Added Richard Kell honing guides
17. Added Sigma Ceramic 1200-6000-13000 with Atoma #400 diamond plate
18. Added Sigma Ceramic #400 to flatten backs
19. Added Atoma #140 diamond plate to flatten the Sigma #400
20. Added Suehiro Cerax #320 and Sigma #120
21. Removed one of the grinder wheels and replaced it with a 6" leather wheel
22. Added Spyderco Medium - Fine - Ultra Fine stones
22. Removed the other grinder wheel and replaced it with two felt wheels - a medium and hard carver's wheel (from Lee Valley). Removed the housing from the grinder.
23. Added Shapton Pro #1000
24. The latest - just received from Gerd Fritsche his new honing guide.

Obviously, most of my sharpening stuff is just gathering dust. My current process for straight blades is:

3M Gold PSA sandpaper on granite in 80, 120, 220, and 400 grit.
Suehiro Cerax #320 (sometimes)
Sigma Ceramic #400 - #1200 - #6000 - #13000
No Stropping after the #13000

I will be playing with Gerd Fritsche's honing guide this week, but for most blades I currently use the Eclipse-style guide. For spokeshave blades and narrow chisels I prefer the Kell Guides. I only use the Veritas Mk II for skew blades.

My process for curved blades is still evolving. For now, it's a combination of Spyderco stones and a collection of round and flat wooden sticks with various grit abrasive and leather glued on.

Steve

[Derek Cohen]

I cannot resist ...

My handtool fascination really began about 18 years ago. Before then I was a powertool user and Normite. My chisel collection consisted of disposable Stanleys - you know, the one's with the yellow handles. Buy one, use until dull, then use another. I built up a fine collection of dull iron. What did I know about sharpening - I had an old double-sided oilstone ... coarse and "fine". Occasionally I would freehand the bevel at some vague angle. Thank God I never needed this tool very often! :)

Eventually I learned about the Eclipse and discovered sandpaper .... and the sun came out. The rest, as they say, is history.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Roy Lindberry]

From reading the other posts, seems like anyone should be able to slide through the various options quite cheaply by just borrowing the previous guy's cast-offs...

Matt

Ain't that the truth.

[Archie England]

You know, there's another fellow who evidently has the same name as you--but's he quite the hand tool expect and I would imagine him to have never done such as you've done :)

Wow, I'm thrilled to know there's hope for me!! You started later in life and look how great you're doing now. That's truly encouraging. Thank you for that testimony.

Archie near NOLA

[John Coloccia]

I basically bought everything, and then slowly got rid of what I didn't like or need.

[Leigh Betsch]

I did a lot of stuff. Then I just listened to George a do what he does.

[Winton Applegate]

I have two alternative answers just for the fun of it :
Oh I just have my tool valet sharpen my blades.
Oh I just have my girl friend sharpen my blades when she comes over.

I am posting a photo of my flat strops (oh and there is that 1200 red water stone the one I started out with). there is no big reason to glue the leather down. I used a couple of brass counter sink screws on each end and if you look close there was no reason to "make a nice wood base for it" that is just some old very rough but flat pine I hacked a handle into way back in the day. Tres gitterdone.

And there is my wonderful to look at trans Ark. Isn't she pretty ?

[David Weaver]

Started with kings, went to shaptons and a bench grinder. That's pretty much it.

[Steve Friedman]

Started with kings, went to shaptons and a bench grinder. That's pretty much it.
Yeah, right! Nice try.

Steve

[David Weaver]

Yeah, right! Nice try.

Steve

Those were the parts that count! Those and an eclipse guide that I still use sometimes for precise finish smoother sharpening. Pretty much everything else has been for play. Haven't really improved on the grinder and two shapton stone setup.

First thing I watched ever about woodworking was a couple of charlesworth DVDs that someone loaned me (one was the plane sharpening video), and I never had to go through anything with a dull tool. That was helpful, it was easy to see hand tools were more intuitive right away, and there was never that hurdle where they seemed difficult to use.

[Winton Applegate]

Leigh,

So I'm kind of new here.
Who's George and WHAT, pre tell by all means available to us mortals, does he do ?
ha, ha, ha

Have you all watched the Frank Klausz tools video where he sharpens ?
Water stones in a mote. Mixes up the various grits back and forth a little too much for my taste but the main thing is the staggering speed in which he goes back and forth from bevel side to flat side.
I would cut off something if I tried that.
ha, ha, ha

By the way a quote from Frank Klausz has just came back to me so now is the grand unveiling of it as I add it to my post "signature" and you are all invited.

By the way don't drink the Cool Aid (stick to the beer) unless you want to find your self cutting up that Roubo bench to make something else out of the wood and using your twin screw Veritas vise for a cider press.

Under the influence of the Klausz Cool Aide I am hopelessly content with my Klausz bench. Be ware this addiction is often a permanent condition.

wait a minute . . . something is wrong . . . what's this ? What's This ?
WHAT'S THIS ?
W H A T ' S
T H I S ?
I can't modify my signature ? !
Drat ! Foiled.
any way here it is

"In ten or fifteen years you are going to be a pretty good beginner too."
Frank Klausz's cabinet maker father.


It would have looked grand . . . down there . . . on the bottom of the page. I had a little place all cleared away and saved special just for it.
Ahhhh the trials of the modern woodworking chat room bum. It is almost too much. Too much I tell you.

[David Weaver]

George is a craftsman who does work that's as fine as you'll ever see. That's pretty much it, a professional in the true sense of the word. If anyone makes a couple of nice things and gets too big for their britches, all they have to do is look at the work of folks like George or any of the other super top level craftsmen who are good enough to cater to the wealthy and very educated (with what they're buying) customers by doing one-off type work.

You can see a little slice of his work in the FAQ here or just doing a search for "george wilson made" as he's used the words "that I made" in post of the posts where he shows his work.

As far as the personalities out there in the woodworking world, I haven't seen any of them that do anything remotely close to what producing professionals like George, or like Randall Rosenthal (below in the carving forum) do. Or mark yundt's display of what a commissioned trade carver does, vs. carving something on a beginner's carving video to be peddled to the masses. Not that everyone of the blogroll "once did work for pay....or never really did" is incapable of fine work, but that there is a big divide between what frank klausz demonstrates, and what parlor tricks you'll see at woodshows (thin shavings, make a cutting board real fast, cut a mortise with glass on one side of the board, etc) and what George does. We never hear about most of the folks like George or Randall except for the luck of having them participate in this forum. That's a shame (a shame that we don't get to see and hear from more producing craftsmen.....hopefully nobody misread that as me saying it's a shame george and randall are on the forum!!). Even if it's just for cutting our teeth on taste and deciding what the finest work really is.

[John Coloccia]

George is an alien from a planet of master craftsman. Among his many talents is a somewhat passable impersonation of a human male. Randall Rosenthal will back me up here...he's from the same planet.

[Winton Applegate]

George is an alien from a planet of master craftsman.

John,

The planet Yassacca ! I know it well. The people from there call them selves Yassaccans.
See the book by Terry Jones ala Douglas Adams called
Starship Titanic
http://www.amazon.com/Douglas-Adamss-Starship-Titanic-Terry/dp/0345368436/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372192511&sr=1-1&keywords=starship+titanic
It is about the greatest luxury cruise starship in the known galaxy, or so it was rumored. It was designed to be built by the Yassacans, a humble race of highly acclaimed craftsman, but materials were too costly, and the planet Yassaca went bankrupt trying to complete it. So, the construction was moved to Bleratonia, where corners were cut.
I am not saying anything negative just that is what the book is about.
They even use some real fine woodworking lingo in the book.
The book isn't for everybody; as Douglas Adams isn't for everybody but if you find humor and consternation in the antics of the everyday human there is a chance D. A. and or this book will ruin you for reading books by anybody else.


NO BODY HEARS ABOUT
We never hear about most of the folks like George or Randall except for the luck of having them participate in this forum. That's a shame.


David,

Yes it is and I have been at FWW for years to get that together.
Stop telling me "this is a router bit and you put it in this thing called a router" and start reporting on the world of fine woodworking and the crafts people who do it. Get out there and go to a shop or two.
But naaaaah. So I don't buy the mag anymore.


Thank you for the dope slap to my head. I will follow up.

[Winton Applegate]

Even if it's just for cutting our teeth on taste and deciding what the finest work really is.
That's a great line. I like that.

[Winton Applegate]

George Wilson's work ?

Could you post some links to furniture please ?
I am seeing guitars and metal work but no straight ahead cabinet making.

[Leigh Betsch]

Leigh,

So I'm kind of new here.
Who's George and WHAT, pre tell by all means available to us mortals, does he do ?
ha, ha, ha
.
Others have explained who George is and if you stick around here you'll have a chance to read his posts and decide for yourself the value of his teachings. There are many ways to sharpen, I don't know the best but I know that George has studied and found a way that works for him, so I figure it's good enough for me too. Diamond, 2 levels of ceramic stones and then strop. Sometime the first time off the ceramics I do add in a very fine waterstone that I bought from David Weaver (figured if it wasn't good enough for him it is probably still good enough for me!) For quick touch up I just strop. I don't think George uses the waterstone but I gotta play with it cause its fun to use. But don't listen to me cause I'm no expert neander, that's why I just tag onto what others have already learned.

[David Weaver]

George Wilson's work ?

Could you post some links to furniture please ?
I am seeing guitars and metal work but no straight ahead cabinet making.

George posted a piece of art deco furniture at one time, but I think you'll find out he doesn't build a lot of furniture.

[Chris Griggs]

Re: George's Work

If you look here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

and scroll down to the bullet heading 8. Making your own tools you will find links to several things George has made.

He is indeed mainly and instrument maker, tool maker, and machinist, so you won't likely find any cabinets, etc...

[David Weaver]

Others have explained who George is and if you stick around here you'll have a chance to read his posts and decide for yourself the value of his teachings. There are many ways to sharpen, I don't know the best but I know that George has studied and found a way that works for him, so I figure it's good enough for me too. Diamond, 2 levels of ceramic stones and then strop. Sometime the first time off the ceramics I do add in a very fine waterstone that I bought from David Weaver (figured if it wasn't good enough for him it is probably still good enough for me!) For quick touch up I just strop. I don't think George uses the waterstone but I gotta play with it cause its fun to use. But don't listen to me cause I'm no expert neander, that's why I just tag onto what others have already learned.

The 12k SS was definitely fine enough. I can't really tell a difference between it and any of the other finishers, except maybe the SP13k, which is a tiny bit finer. I just had about a half dozen synthetic finishers at the time. Kinda wished I hadn't sold it once I got into razors, it was the stone of choice there for a while. I remember at the time thinking I'd sell off all but one set of synthetic stones. That didn't work out.

Kinda wished I hadn't sold a lot of stones I've sold, but I don't know what I'd do with them if I still had them! Cash in the paypal account fed the monster, anyway.

[Jim Matthews]

I basically bought everything, and then slowly got rid of what I didn't like or need.

I do wish there were more "Try out this sharpening medium" courses available.
It's so much easier to buy things than it is to master their use.

20 minutes with Phil Lowe was worth more to me than opening my checkbook,
and not because I adopted his method. Each training session guided me toward making more out of less.

I wouldn't haunt these sharpening discussions if it weren't for the fact that genuinely sharp tools
have made my sparse output of woodworking so much better, easier and entertaining.

Sharpening tools is the essential skill; everything else is dependent on that step.
It's like playing ice hockey - you can't play well until you skate well - so why do the kids practice slapshots instead of power skating?

One's fun, the other is a necessary slog.

[dan sherman]

I kind of started out with a cheat, as I have some cross over from my metalworking hobby. From metalworking, I have a 12" x 18" surface plate, and a cheapo grinder with good wheels. IMO all the wheels recommended for woodworking are crap, they are usually expensive, hard, run hot, and designed for a minimal stock removal rate. On my grinder I run wheels designed for a surface grinder, because they are soft, and designed for a much higher stock removal rate, and they are usually substantially cheaper. If memory serves, I have 46H camel wheels, and they shred stock fast enough that I don't have to worry about overheating a tool unless I'm doing something dumb.

When i got into hand tools, I started with a Veritas Mk-1 jig, and sandpaper on my surface plate, that was always followed up with Veritas green rouge (.5 microns) and mineral oil on a quarter sawn hard maple strop. This got me through a good 9 months or so till I could save up for stones. Eventually I picked up Naniwa super stones (1k, 5k, 8k). to flatten them I used 200 grit wet dry sand paper glued to a flattening plate I made by lapping 1/2" aluminum jig plate dead flat. This set up lasted me several years, and worked pretty well.

Recently I wore out my 1k SS, so I picked up a Sigma select II 1k to replace it, and an Atoma 400 grit diamond stone to replace my homemade flattening plate.


My future:

I plan on getting some more Sigma select ii's when I wear out my other stones, as I like the speed they provide. I'm also eagerly awaiting someone to start selling electroplated cbn wheels in a grit above 180. An 8" slow speed grinder with a 60 grit on one side and a 600+ grit wheel on the other would cover pretty much anyone's sharpening needs.

[Steve Voigt]

Good thread.
Most people seem pretty settled in what they use. I'm in a different place: my sharpening routine is currently in chaos.
I started out with a borg carborundum stone; predictably, that didn't work. This was pre-internet days, so I really didn't have any good info about grits, microns, or anything useful.
I found success when I tried sandpaper on a flat steel plate that I surface ground, and a cheapo center wheel jig. I used that method for years. My only regret is sticking with it for too long--the cost of sandpaper really adds up after a while. But it worked, and I still use the plate and sandpaper for flattening vintage blades, etc.
A few months ago, I decided to change. In my new digs, I have a small, dedicated handtool area, and there isn't space for piles of dirty sandpaper (and it's burning a hole in my wallet). Definitely no space for waterstones, either. After tons of reading, mostly here, I decided I would start with a medium or fine india stone, then move to diamond paste on some kind of substrate. This seemed like a nice cheap alternative to expensive stones.
I love the india stones, and I think I will like them even more when they've settled in a bit; right now, even the fine india, which is what I usually start with, is super-aggressive. But I was surprised to find I really dislike using the diamond paste. First, it's a slight irritant; my eyes water a bit when I apply the paste. I guess I could order the water-based paste from Tools for Working Wood, but that's more expensive.
Second, I don't like the feel of any of the substrates. I started with Corian (got it free). It cuts fine, but it's very easy, especially with curved blades, to gouge the surface, and then I have to start all over. Same thing for wood substrates. I tried steel (HR bar stock that I flattened with a file, then lapped). That obviously cures the gouging problem, but I don't like the feel any better. Ultimately, it's just a very personal aesthetic thing: I like the feel of the india stones, and I think I'd like the feel of a finer natural stone as well. So, I took the plunge yesterday and bought a black arkie from a fellow Creeker. We'll see how I like it. If it works out, I'll have a nice, compact 2-stone setup. If not, back to the drawing board.
Anyway, I didn't want want newbies reading this thread to feel like they suck because they don't have a settled routine yet. I know a lot a people, e.g. Chris Schwarz, advocate picking one method and sticking with it. In general I think that's excellent advice, but sometimes circumstances force one to change.

P.S. Everything I've said is post-dry grinder. With a new-to-me or very dull blade, I'll hollow grind with a 6" grey wheel, then when I move to the stones I'll either ride the hollow freehand, or use the same, cheapo jig I've had for 10 years.

P.P.S. This is the longest post I've ever written. Sorry for the verbosity.

[Steve Voigt]

Just to add one more thing to my last post: I'm not saying diamond paste is inferior; obviously, a lot of people love it and swear by it. I'm just saying that it's wrong for me, and me only. So don't let me discourage anyone from trying it--it's cheap, so it's not like you'll lose a ton of dough if you decide it's not for you!

[Winton Applegate]

art deco . . . at one time . . . doesn't build a lot of furniture.

a a a a h h h l l l l righty
t h e n
. . . .
I
s e e
I was just kind of visualizing . . . oooohhhh I don't know . . . . this (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/107838/chippendale-chest-on-chest) sort of stuff . . .
I aaaahhh . . .
I'll just let my self out then.
Don't get up.
No really.

[David Weaver]

I don't think georges finest work gives an inch to any cabinetmaking...I can fathom at least how the elements of the cabinetmaking work are done.

..but if cabinetmaking is all you like, by all means.

Personally, I think that piece is pretty plain compared to this stuff, and maybe most wouldn't agree, but I'd hate to be confined to cabinets and furniture.

http://www.cybozone.com/fg/wilson1.html#wilson6

[Tony Wilkins]

I don't think georges finest work gives an inch to any cabinetmaking...I can fathom at least how the elements of the cabinetmaking work are done.

..but if cabinetmaking is all you like, by all means.

Personally, I think that piece is pretty plain compared to this stuff, and maybe most wouldn't agree, but I'd hate to be confined to cabinets and furniture.

http://www.cybozone.com/fg/wilson1.html#wilson6

Here, here, quite so.

[John Coloccia]

Here's a young George at Williamsburg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K48FezBoPWg

What's fantastic about George is that he has a mastery of so many different skills that individually usually take a lifetime to develop. A search through the threads he's started with his work feels like you're browsing through the works of an army of skilled artisans, but it's all just him.

[Winton Applegate]

spends a great deal of his life looking through a micro scope.

Thanks for your effort to send a link. Of course; what can I say; that is extremely impressive micro work. The bender for the guitars is great ! I bet a lot of luthiers are wanting to steal that for them selves.

I was all about the cabinet making because I was thinking plane blade sharpening. To really "get" sharpening I was, and am, thinking it takes a lot of planing of large surfaces. Hence the desire to see his cabinets. (or tables)

Impressive too that he made the work bench and appreciates the weight of a good bench.
Then when I hear art deco I think filled, primered and painted surfaces or metal. So was kind of deflated after the big build up.

In the end I would say if he really understands metal machining then he really understands sharpening. Then for cutting wood just go with a finer final finish on the edge.
You know; the old F.F.F.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

I started with the only stone one could find in hardware stores here, a generic 300-600 stone, plus 1000 and 2000 sandpaper over a piece of thick glass. That worked reasonably well, and when it felt inadequate, I'm pretty convinced now that it was due to my lack of skill than due to the materials themselves.

Then, by chance, I found a 600-1000 waterstone at a "fancy German knives" store. It worked really well, although being only about 5 cm wide, it was a bit narrow for plane blades. I learned to skew them or move them in a figure 8 pattern. That stone basically let me avoid 1000-grit sandpaper. For a while I sharpened only with that stone plus 2000 sandpaper.

Then during one trip to the USA I ordered a 1000-8000 stone from Amazon. While one *can* order things from Mexico, shipping is ridiculously expensive. This is my main stone now. When it gets uneven or dished, I touch it up on sandpaper over glass.

About two years ago I made a simple strop with a piece of leather glued to wood. Nothing fancy - clamp it with a caul while gluing. I found a hardware store that carries green compound, bought a brick of it, and use it to rub the strop every one in a while. It makes things nice and gives them a mirror finish.

At some point I got a pack of small Arkansas slipstones with various profiles; they work nicely enough for gouges and such.

I found a big sandstone wheel at an antiques store. I restored it and have been learning to use it to re-make really badly chipped edges or to put the initial bevel on new tools (mostly, I prepare new tools that my friends get and give them back sharp to them, so they don't start with improperly sharpened tools).

About a year ago I started shaving with a straight razor. Works nicely with regular stropping, and with a touch of the 8000 stone when it seems that stropping isn't making it sharp enough.

The things I've learned that really helped:

1. Somewhere I read, "you have to be able to take one or two minutes on a tool and get back to work". This was a revelation. I used to spend half an hour working on a tool that I had let go dull for too long. Now I keep everything sharp on an as-needed basis, and don't let tools go dull.

2. Paul Sellers and convex bevels. They work fine. Geometry says that they should be stronger than straight bevels, but I don't care - they work, they are fast to achieve, and now that I have the big sandstone, I can easily touch up bevels that get too convex eventually.

3. I wish I had made that strop earlier. It's so fast to touch up things with it.

4. Practice, practice, practice. If you can consistently pare soft pine endgrain without crushing it, you are probably good to go.

I haven't used jigs, so I can't comment on them.

For sharpening saws - just files and a simple wooden vise like the one in Mr. Lie-Nielsen's youtube videos.

[David Weaver]

About a year ago I started shaving with a straight razor.

Good man! :)

[David Weaver]

To really "get" sharpening I was, and am, thinking it takes a lot of planing of large surfaces. Hence the desire to see his cabinets. (or tables)

Impressive too that he made the work bench and appreciates the weight of a good bench.


I have a couple of the stones that george cast aside now, use them as my once every several months razor hones (they actually are razor hones). Imagine the carving tools for that rosette and several other solid things he's carved would have to be very sharp. Not that (as you can see from the video) he wouldn't have had sharp planes putting together things like harpsichords, etc.

At any rate, these days there's so much instruction and so many super excellent easy to use stones available, nobody should ever have to have less than sharp tools.

(I can't remember where george's art deco table thread was, but it wasn't a big formica and metal heiffer).

[Federico Mena Quintero]

Good man! :)

... And after that, one day my wife and I were watching Skyfall, and when James Bond shaves with a straight razor, my wife turned around and asked me, "now are you going to brag about it?" "Damn right I am" was my answer :)

[David Weaver]

I don't think I saw that movie, for me, it was archie bunker and fred mertz. I can't find either episode, but archie made a straight razor pass look like a long time ,and fred and ricky shaved in a restaurant on an episode of i love lucy when they were making a point about equal rights meaning that it should be OK for men to fiddle with their appearances in public, too.

Actually, I started with straight razor shaving because I figured that if people did it for several hundred (or more) years, then it couldn't have been as dangerous as people make it out to be, and it might just be satisfying just like doing a lot of other things the way they were done pre convenience (baking bread, etc) era is much more interesting. Turns out it's far less dangerous than it looks (not at all dangerous) and it doesn't take much time - five minutes for me for two passes in the morning (never wash out the brush or anything, etc). I'll never touch a disposable razor again.

[Chris Griggs]

... And after that, one day my wife and I were watching Skyfall, and when James Bond shaves with a straight razor, my wife turned around and asked me, "now are you going to brag about it?" "Damn right I am" was my answer :)

Good man indeed. And actually, if I recall correctly...a beautiful women uses a straight razor to shave James Bond in that movie. Loved it!

Anyway, I started shaving with a straight razor this winter because Dave was sending me some stuff to play with anyway, and offered to send the razor along with the woodworking stuff to try. After a year of him trying to talk me into trying it I couldn't pass up that offer, and boy am I glad I took him up on it.