White pine stability

[Duncan Breland]

I'm planning to build a set of bunk beds for my boys. Of course, I want them to be sturdy and safe (also a demand from my wife). I want to build a set which will be adequate even for young adults. I hope to offset the cost by making a few sets to sell, as well. I've put a lot of thought (and math) into the design, and am currently focusing on materials. I intend to build a prototype first and am researching lower cost lumber. But I still want the prototype to be a usable and reasonably attractive bed.


How stable can I expect 'furniture grade' 16/4 White pine to be? If I get kiln dried white pine and use it with minimal additional milling (jointing/planing and cutting to length), how likely is it to twist or warp?

[Mel Fulks]

If it is North Eastern white pine (Pinus strobus ) or sugar pine you can expect excellent stability .I would not accept anything but those.

[Roy Harding]

I agree with the previous posters - their suggestions are solid.

On the subject of building furniture for children. I make custom furniture (amongst other things) for a living. I will not touch a commission for ANYTHING to be used primarily by children (ESPECIALLY bunk beds). The liability issues are absolutely horrendous.

If a kid is fooling around on the top bunk and falls off - the first thing some parents are going to think about is suing YOU for not ensuring that the guard rails were "adequate" - never mind what the kid was doing at the time, or how safe your design actually is. Even if your design is superior, and it is proved not to be your fault - you STILL have to defend yourself - and that means hiring a lawyer, and that means big dollars. I'm a little one man shop - I'll let the big manufacturers who can afford a lawyer deal with those issues.

I don't mean to be overly pessimistic - but I watched a small (four man) company I worked for go bankrupt fighting such spurious accusations, and swore I'd have nothing to do with children's furniture when I started my own company.

Keep in mind that I'm in Canada - where lawsuits such as these are somewhat less common than they appear to be in your homeland.

All that said - best wishes for the success of your project, and think twice before selling a bunk bed.

[Frank Drew]

White pine is quite stable in my experience, but I've only used it in millwork, not furniture. It machines like a dream but is quite soft and will dent rather easily.

[Steve Baumgartner]

I've found that there is a wide variation in the quality of white pine on the market these days, and you have to be careful to examine what you are getting. The good stuff, as others have said, is very nice and stable, though soft and easily damaged. The fast-grown stuff I've gotten hasn't been particularly stable at all. The growth rings are too far apart and there is too much difference in hardness between the early and late wood.

[Chris Hachet]

Where on earth can you even get decent white pine that's not 150 years old? Even the tuff I we from specialty earls is horrendous.

[Mel Fulks]

NE white pine sold now doesn't look any different to me than what was put in American pieces 150 years ago plus. It was a favorite secondary wood and because of its stability often used for carvings that would be gilded.Was also used for ship masts. If you just ask for "white pine"you usually get ponderosa pine ,whatever that is.

[Dave Zellers]

If you just ask for "white pine"you usually get ponderosa pine ,whatever that is.
Geeze, I hope not. Ponderosa Pine is a Western Pine, much heavier, and not 'soft' like White Pine. It's a nice pine, but it's not White Pine by any stretch.

Speaking of the older tree cuts, decades ago, I replaced 2 sliding closet doors that had only been finished with a clear finish in a house that was built in the 1940's and I almost trashed them with the other stuff when the end grain caught my eye. Almost perfect vertical grain, and teeny tiny growth rings all exactly the same distance apart. Those babies went right into my shop where I knocked them down and saved the rails and stiles for probably 15 years until I used them for some cabinet doors. Oh man what a joy to work with. Stable city.

The last leftover piece became the fence on one of my cross cut sleds. I still love looking at that end grain.

[Dave Zellers]

Was also used for ship masts.
One of my clients took me out to the back of his large lot where there was a stand of maybe 300 pine trees (I think these were red pine) planted in a grid about 5 feet apart in both directions. They were planted specifically to be ship masts. The closeness meant the lower branches died off quickly because the canopy blocked out the light. This created the desired perfectly straight, mostly knot free trunk used for masts. They were mostly past their prime but he did say he sold one to a boat builder who had contacted him.

Sorry Duncan- veered OT there...:)

White Pine is fine for furniture but as has been noted, the quality varies wildly. Inspect the pieces you have chosen to use very closely for defects like hairline splits that are almost invisible.

[Mel Fulks]

Dave,this is one of the problems of colloquial names. The ponderosa pine we have often had on hand in the form of s4s boards and mouldings supplied by GP has always been referred to as white pine.

[Dave Zellers]

Dave,this is one of the problems of colloquial names. The ponderosa pine we have often had on hand in the form of s4s boards and mouldings supplied by GP has always been referred to as white pine.
Yep- know exactly what you mean. Most pine molding is ponderosa pine I think. But the S4S ponderosa pine we have here is labeled as ponderosa pine to their credit. Makes a nice pine floor- pretty stable.

[Aleks Hunter]

Roy is absolutely right about the bad legal juju attached to children's anything. I used to work for a toy company. you would not believe the stupid things people let their kids do and get their kids to do then turn around and sue the company, the artist who originally designed the toy, the store that sold it, etc. My boss's mantra was "its a good product until the fourth kid gets killed. People look at 10 and up on a box and call it the number of 6 year olds that should play with it.

[Dan Neuhaus]

Actually almost all of the pine s4s and trim at the borgs is radiata pine, not ponderosa. It's usually from Chile and usually pretty bad. It's the most common planted pine now because it grows silly fast. It's native to CA but almost all of it comes from plantations in the Southern Hemisphere.

[Duncan Breland]

Thanks for the input. I'll certainly be mindful of the recommendations.

[Dave Zellers]

Actually almost all of the pine s4s and trim at the borgs is radiata pine, not ponderosa

Well, my experience refers to my local lumber yards. The lumber stamps are American and Canadian. I don't buy lumber at the borg so I wouldn't know about that.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> I'm planning to build a set of bunk beds for my boys.

Keep in mind that there are regulations promulgated by the Consumer Products Safety Commission for items intended to be used by folks 12 years old or less. They apply to anything made primarily intended for children whether they are your own children or for sale or given away.

For this reason, and for insurance risks, I would avoid making anything to be sold or given away for children. You might want to speak with your personal liability insurance agent.