Engraving Firearms

[Eddie Castaneda]

Hey guys just curious has anyone engraved any firearms? What's the difficulty level and any type of care after engraving?

[Mark Smith61]

I engraved one of my Glocks and it worked fine. I have done a little research on this. Glock's have a finish that is very good for laser engraving. I understand that other firearms may not be so well suited for it. I think you can engrave stainless firearms if you used Cermark but I have not tried it yet. If you're going to do it commercially there are a bunch of laws that get in the way. You can't take in a customers gun for engraving unless you have a Federal Firearms License. (I'm no lawyer so don't hold me to all these details.) I understand there are ways around this by doing things like having the customer wait there while you do the work or by disassembling the gun and only having the slide in your possession to engrave and have the customer keep the lower. You also have to be real careful that your engraving doesn't affect the markings on the firearm including the serial number and the information that identified the manufacturer of the firearm. Those items are required by law to be on the gun and to dismember them in any way would be illegal.

[Eddie Castaneda]

Mark, Thanks for the heads up! Commercially is a little to much for me by myself, a couple guys here at work were asking about marking so I thought I would ask all you guys instead of jumping in Head first then messing up. Hmm Cermark I might have todo some research on that stuff!

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Measure twice, cut once.
Measure twice, cut once.
Measure twice, cut once.

If you plan on doing a lot, [try to] get your FFL. You legally cannot possess someone else's firearm without it: the customer would have to stay on site while you have the firearm. This is not true for components (barrels, slides, stocks etc.), only a complete firearm or the receiver (part with serial number).

Level of difficulty will vary based on project scope.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/858495_684179394945053_1016710540_o.jpg [relatively hard]

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/703896_654654154564244_2110051923_o.jpg [relatively easy]

Garbage in, garbage out: do not ever engrave substandard artwork on a firearm. It's a lose-lose.

Moving forward, create fixtures as save them.

[Ken Smith Jr]

There was a Sig Sauer I tried to engrave with my Yag last year, not sure what kind of coating was on it but it came out pretty crappy and had to hustle it to the gunsmith's and he did his best to pretty much cover it over, think I lost about 20 lbs that week!!! I've done slides in the past with no problems but some of the newer finishes don't seem to take engraving well, I'm now super picky about what slides I engrave now.

[Joe Hillmann]

When engraving guns I always let the owner know there is no guarantee it will turn out. With that said I try and engrave on areas of the gun that can easily and cheaply be replaced or fixed. If I am engraving on the metal of the gun I will usually take the gun apart and do a small test engraving on an area that will be hidden once the gun is reassembled so I know how the finish will react to it the laser. I also do a test engraving with blue tape to make sure everything is in the right place. After the test if everything looks good I engrave right through the tape without moving the gun.

With all that said make sure you charge enough for engraving on guns, they require a custom set up for each one.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

There was a Sig Sauer I tried to engrave with my Yag last year, not sure what kind of coating was on it but it came out pretty crappy and had to hustle it to the gunsmith's and he did his best to pretty much cover it over, think I lost about 20 lbs that week!!! I've done slides in the past with no problems but some of the newer finishes don't seem to take engraving well, I'm now super picky about what slides I engrave now.


Sigs yield the worst result of all the manufacturers I've ever worked on.

[Eddie Castaneda]

Chris, that Relatively Easy picture do you use anything else for that to stand out?

[Eddie Castaneda]

What would be the best Laser type to use when doing this kind of work?

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Chris, that Relatively Easy picture do you use anything else for that to stand out?

Yep, Cermark.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

What would be the best Laser type to use when doing this kind of work?

Your CO2 would be just fine.

[Jeff Belany]

So far I have only done wood stocks. Kind of scary doing something to an expensive gun without knowing if it will work or not. I know I have done a few knives that have a gray coating that is probably like a gun. Hard as heck and I can slightly mark it but can't get through it with my 45W, even with multiple passes at high power and very slow speed. So far the customers have been satisfied or at least they haven't complained. Probably don't charge enough for those special one-off pieces.

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

[Eddie Castaneda]

How about Lenses? I know that plays a big part in the marking

[Chris DeGerolamo]

How about Lenses? I know that plays a big part in the marking

Never had a problem with our 2" lens that came with the machine.

[Tim Bateson]

I do a couple hundred uppers a month and a spattering of receivers. Most are anodized, so they laser very well. Hint - You want to "bleach" the anodization NOT blow through it to the bare metal. The good thing is the current laws understand engraving, but not so much "marking". Just read up on the laws and don't hesitate to turn down business if you think it may be a violation.

[Tim Bateson]

...You legally cannot possess someone els's firearm without it: the customer would have to stay on site while you have the firearm. This is not true for components (barrels, slides, stocks etc.), only a complete firearm or the receiver (part with serial number)....

I believe this is only true when working with a gun dealer, not an individual. I have several local gun dealers sell the guns & then refer their clients to me.

[Wes Reeve]

I've done some Cermark on firearms before, we had the owner on site the entire time for legal reasons, but its nice to know that there is a license to avoid having to do that... I'll have to look into it.

From what I've seen, some people are very attached to their firearms so if you're going to do this kind of work, the customer is most likely going to take it very personally if you make mistakes, but they tend to get more excited too. Just something to keep in mind. To echo Chris, Measure twice, cut once.

Eddie, I use pledge or a very thin oil to bring out some depth in the black of the Cermark. After you laser the piece, clean off your extra Cermark, let the DNA dry then spray some pledge and buff it lightly with a soft cloth.

[William Adams]

If you're charging money, review this with a lawyer:

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2009-1.pdf

Short answer is here:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html#license-activities

Q: Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
[27 CFR 478.11]

[Mark Smith61]

Wes, yes there is a license to do this. I'm not an expert on licenses, but there is a license for Gunsmiths. I think it's a little cheaper than a regular gun sales person type license, but it comes with a whole bunch of regulations. You have to keep a log of every gun in and out and have the mandated signs posted in your shop about keeping guns away from kids and all kinds of stuff like that.

[Gary and Jessica Houghton]

MY response to everyone who asks about bringing anything to me is etch at your own risk. I cannot be held responsible for any mishaps unless it is a spelling error on my part. I have gotten to the point of almost scaring the customer into not wanting to etch the product for fear that something might go wrong. When 99% of the time nothing does go wrong, the customer is thrilled and the 1% when something goes wrong, they expected it.

These are some from the past.

267643267644

[Jeff Greer]

Just got my FFL - and yes you do need one if you do any work on AR lowers or complete guns.

[Tim Bateson]

Fact, Fiction, Fact, Fiction... Some "opinions", are a little of both... (This is a cleaned of version of my original post :-D ).

Do NOT take the advice of legal or not from this forum, as I don't believe any of us are real lawyers.

Yes there are confusing, fuzzy, strict gun laws that should not be ignored. If you have to ask people in this forum, then don't work with weapons. You have 2 choices - Either ask a real lawyer or refer the work to those of us that have.

[Eddie Castaneda]

@ Tim, I'm just asking the questions if I plan to do will go through the proper Channels and get it done. I was just getting some input from people on this site.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

@ Tim, I'm just asking the questions if I plan to do will go through the proper Channels and get it done. I was just getting some input from people on this site.

Don't do it...there's no money in it....send all firearm engraving work to me. :)

[Robert Silvers]

Not sure I would ask a lawyer (you could if you were made of money and/or not good at reading) - the information is all on the ATF's website in plain english.

[Eddie Castaneda]

I don't have that much cash and I'm pretty sure I can read. But I'd rather have a professional break it down for me who understands the law! Oh it also helps with your buddies dad is an attorney.

[Dave Sheldrake]

In the UK for reference "modifications of any kind" that "Alter the appearance or function or look of a controlled firearm" are subject to a "Firearms manufacture authority from the Home Secretary"

(there is special exemption for firearms (air weapons))

cheers

Dave

[Mike Null]

This thread has been closed. We do not permit political discussions and the last two posts open the door to gun control arguments.