Kreg K4 Pocket Hole Jig.....should the drill tip pierce the end grain?

[George Farra]

Hi Everyone

This maybe a dumb question, but when drilling a pocket hole with the K4 Master jig, should the point of the drill bit pierce through the end grain of the peice you are making the pocket hole into?

I've tried to use the jig and my pocket holes do not pierce the end grain. I'm having trouble where the screws are not pulling the mating peice tight. I've set the block in the jig to the material size and i've also set the collar on the drill bit to the thickness of the material as stated in the instructions.

The only way I am able to draw the joint tight is to use another drill bit and complete what the pilot point started so that the screw is not engaged in the peice with the pocket hole at all.

What am I doing wrong??

TIA

George

[Roy Harding]

If I'm following your description correctly, you are using pocket hole joinery for a butt joint, and your drill bit is not exiting the board in which you start drilling and carrying on into the second board.

If that's the case - simply move the stop on your drill bit so that it drills deeper.

[Jim Neeley]

George,

After wrestlng with the depth setting mechanisms I found an approach that works well for me.

I set the upper guide height to match the stock, insert the bit in a guide and adjust it so the bit tip is just short of hitting the plastic base and tighten the depth collar.

It has worked well for me.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim in Alaska

[Erik Christensen]

are you sure you are using the correct screws? that sounds like you have screws with excess threads and that is keeping the 2 pieces from pulling together. I have run through numbers large boxes of Kreg screws and never had that problem - they do tends to want to pull the alignment out in the direction of the screw angle but the joints are always tight

[Steven Jaynes]

I agree with both previous replies. You must set BOTH the drill depth correctly AND use screws designed for pocket holes. General purpose screws will not reliablly work well for pocket hole joinery.

Pocket Hole Screws have a bare section of screw shank for a very specific purpose. That's so the threads will have exited the workpiece with the pocket hole, by the time they are grasping the material of the mating workpiece. It's like drilling a through hole on any piece mating with a second piece being fastened with a screw. Without that though-hole, the screw threads actually force the two pieces apart.

Check out Kreg's website for instructions and videos.

Steve J.
Portland, OR
Woodworking for over 50 years. (Pocket Holes since 1985)

[bobby milam]

Mine don't normally pierce the end grain. Occasionally, a very small hole from the small part of the bit might show some daylight but that's rare for me. Like others have asked, make sure that you are using the correct length screw as well as the one for soft or hard wood. Are you clamping the piece in place when you try to join them? Although you CAN screw them together and get a good joint by simply holding them in place, they do have a tendency to move and sometimes not pull tight. Depending on how you are trying to attach the two pieces there are a couple of different clamps to pull the joint tight and then you are just screwing them together. When I am having a problem like you are describing, I use this clamp http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30675&site=ROCKLER simply because I got it on sale. Kreg has better and faster clamps though. With one of those the boards shouldn't move and will already be tight and should solve your problem if you have the bit set to the right length.

[Jeff Monson]

George, sounds like you are using the wrong length screws.

[Jonathan Leong]

The drill does not pierce the endgrain normally. When doing 90 degree butt joint, if the two pieces aren't clamped properly, the screw pushes out the mating piece and your joint gaps. The $25 special kreg clamp that has a pin that fits into a neighboring pocket hole is supposed to fix this issue. If you have large enough normal clamps, you can clamp the joint carefully, but I found that bothersome and not fully successful so I am biting the bullet and buying the kreg clamp.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I've never had the bit come all the way through either... and i also don't have a problem getting the pieces to pull tight. So i don't think that's the issue here.

The bit gets really close to drilling through, but it doesn't have to go through to function properly.

If the pieces aren't pulling tight with the screw, try backing the screw out and trying again. Sometimes the two pieces push apart when the screw first starts to puncture the adjoining piece, leaving unused threads between the pieces. But when you back the screw out, there's now a pilot hole left behind... so the pieces won't push apart on the second attempt.

That's the only idea I have at this point.

I don't think the screw length is the issue- if anything, if it's too long, it will just blow through the other piece.

[glenn bradley]

I too follow the instructions and demos and do not pierce the end of the pocket hole. As to setting the collar, this is a very easy measurement using info from Kreg's site, no?

264659

[Matthew Hills]

I'd also echo the suggestion to use pocket hole screws, if you aren't already.
What type of wood are you using?

Matt

[Julie Moriarty]

When setting the depth of cut using the guide on the jig, the bit never drills through the wood. And if I don't clamp the pieces tightly when driving in the screws, the two pieces will separate. I've resolved the problem by making sure the pieces are tightly clamped.

I use both this clamp to keep the pieces flush, with the plate cut into the workbench
http://toolguyd.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Kreg-Klamp-Clamp-Set-with-Mini-Jig.jpg

And this, to keep the pieces together
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415pzdOB1lL.jpg

When I'm joining face frames, I find I really have to clamp tightly if I don't want to see separation or slippage.

[Rick Potter]

I believe your K4 jig has a drill depth guide embossed on it. My K3 does. The Kreg video, as well as the WW show demos, advise that the drill stops about an eighth short of coming out the end.

I always found this interesting, since the professional type machines, like the Castle, have a drill bit to drill the shank hole all the way through.

Maybe it depends on who is selling it?

Good advice is already suggested by others, basically clamp tight and flat, and use good washer head kreg screws, especially on soft woods.

Since I do have a small Castle machine that drills all the way through, I take a few seconds extra and countersink the exit holes just a little. This allows a little nib of wood from the screw a place to go if I do not have the joint clamped down tight enough.

Rick Potter

[Joe Scharle]

I agree with all of the advice offered and after thousands of these screw holes will re-state with emphasis, the 3 absolutes in this process are:

Stop collar and guide block, set per instructions (including working with MDF)
Proper Kreg screws (they will auger out waste)
High clamping pressure (let nothing move in any direction)

[George Farra]

Thanks everyone. Finally got back into the workshop. It was my clamping pressure that was causing my issue. I guess I didn't fully understand how much clamping pressure was needed to keep things from moving around.

george

[Rich Engelhardt]

I found that 99% of my issues w/pocket screws vanished when I quit using power drivers to seat the screws & switched over to just using a screwdriver & doing it by hand.

[Mike Heidrick]

Use a nickle on the jig base, insert bit through the guide, and rest the tip on it and then set the collar. Kreg recommends a driver with 2000rpm. I use a clutched Bosch 12V that I am sure is WAYYYY slower than that. Use good clamping strategiels and good screws. I use a Kreg face frame table setup for flat PH joinery when possible. Right angles get kreg right angle clamps and 90 degree jig/blocks.

I too love the floor Castle machnes. I use a Foreman for flat sheet pockets but my buddies floor Castle machine with foot pedal is a dream machine.

[Art Mann]

I always clamp the two pieces to be joined tightly as if I were trying to glue them together. The screws don't need to pull the two pieces tight because they are already tight against each other. I never experience any slippage due to the angle at which the screw is driven. I use a drill with a clutch set just right to drive the screws rather than an impact driver because it is too easy to spin the screw in the hole if you use too much torque. I use pocket screws by the hundreds and could not imagine driving that many by hand.

[Mort Stevens]

I may be the oddball here, but I've always set the collar on the drill bit to just pierce end end grain. To me it makes sense not to have the potential for anything to get in the joint... a couple of times I've taken pocket screw joints apart and found extra saw dust material in the joint that I know was clean when it was assembled and assumed it came from the screw going the 1/16" or so through the end grain - that's when I started setting the bit to drill all the way through it.

[Joe Shinall]

I've always set my depth using the guide to whatever thickness I am using and use the correct screws from Kreg's material guide and have never had an issue.

As far as driving the scews, I use a 12V Dewalt drill and adjust the chuck to where it snugs but doesn't over tighten and I go slow.

[Gary Muto]

I actually read the instructions, years ago so I may not be 100% correct. I remember two key points:
- use a high speed drill to help with chip ejection. this keep the bit cooler and sharper longer
- don't pierce the end grain. It can cause any remaining blowout to impede the joint from closing
- OK, #3, they probably said something about tight clamping

I think a tool that drills from the outside would not have blowout so this is why there is a difference in the methodology for a Foreman type tool. That's just my opinion.

The screws have 3 features that really make them work:
- Shoulders that distribute the force in the pocket evenly
- A bare shank to allow the two pieces to be pulled together without threads interfering
- A self drilling tip to break through the end grain and into the undrilled piece
- OK #4, A square drive for better torque distribution.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

It sounds like the OP's problem was really clamping but I thought this might help others.

[Doug Richardson]

George, I've come to learn that almost without a doubt, nothing is ever as easy as they make it look in a video. The first time that I coped an inside corner of molding, I watched numerous videos of them sawing away like a knife through butter on that molding with their handy-dandy little coping saw. What didn't dawn on me right away was that they were sawing paint grade pine or poplar, not stain grade oak. You can still do it, but not nearly as easy as it looked on youtube..... ;-)