sanding sealer

[joel nucifore]

Question is do I use sanding sealer before DYE or after? I picked up a MINWAX sanding sealer and want to fill in the grain, but not sure if after will take the dye the same..I most of the time just use BUSH oil and sand paper to do this..

Anyone can help at the point of should I or should NOT do this.....

[John Keeton]

Any finish applied before dye can adversely affect the outcome. The sealer will prevent the dye from absorbing into the wood. Depending on the absorption quality of the wood, you may not be able to do much in the way of sanding after a dye application without removing some of the color.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Like John I don't use sanding sealer before dye. Also a sanding sealer works pretty well before a lot of finishes but make sure it is dewaxed shellac. Not sure about minwax but i use Zinsser dewaxed shellac.

[Chris Studley]

I know that you question was focused on the sanding sealer and dying. However, I was curious about sanding sealer more generally. It is used to fill grain, but how does it work? Different woods are different colors, is/does the dust from sanding bind with the "sealer" for this? Also, what, chemically, is sanding sealer? Is it a varnish, or like a shellac? What finishes can be applied with it? Not to hijack the thread, but I think this info likely will expand on the subject a bit.

[Prashun Patel]

It's not generally used for filling grain. It's used to seal the wood so the topcoat goes on quick and even.

If you wanted to use it that way, you'd apply it, wait for it to dry, and sand it all off. Then repeat until the surface is full and level. To that end, you can use shellac the same way. The sanding sealer may fill your pores white or chalky. The shellac will fill them clear, which will look like the color of your wood.

John's right though; either will impede the ability of the wood to absorb any dye after sealed. If you apply the dye beforehand, all the aggressive sanding will compromise your dye.

You have a couple options:

if your wood is pretty closed grain to begin with (maple, beech, cherry) you don't really need to fill the grain; the top coat will do that after several applications. It'll also happen on open-grained woods like mahog,oak,walnut, but it takes a LOT of coats and will require some leveling-sanding during your topcoat phase. The topcoat will be thick enough by then that compromising the dye later isn't much of a problem. But it's a lot of work.

You can use a commercial pore filler, like Behlens Pore-o-pac. These have high solids, and can be buffed off a little easier and only require one or two applications to completely fill the grain. They are available in different tints, or you can color it yourself. You basically dye, then seal with shellac, then apply the pore filler, squeegie it off, then buff it with burlap and gently sand when it's totally dry; it's like applying tile grout.

You can tint your top coat. Many topcoats like shellac take tint well. The schedule would be: thick tinted shellac, sand, repeat until grain filled, then thin tinted shellac and apply coats without sanding in between until sheen is even. This won't result in as deep a color as applying dye to the raw wood, but also gives you good control within a range.

[robert baccus]

A good SS seals the wood like several coats of finish, fills the pores and low places and sands easily like chalk. Problem is most brands of SS, sellac included sand horribly. There have been changes to several brands also. I would be very reluctant to use most big box finishes or SS. Mohawk sells a heavy bodied SS that works perfectly--maybe 2 coats on open pored woods sanded down gets everything flat. Would you buy your gouges at a big box store? They also sell top quality lacquers and other finishes for your particular applications as well. There are other quality finishes sold out there. Check and see what the guitar makers use for a refences. Shellac can be a buaetiful finish but not very durable and much more work than lacquer IMO. Oh an by the way dyes/stains must go on first. Dyes can be added to most solvent type finishes and sprayed on but then it's called tinting.

[joel nucifore]

thank you all.. And hijack away it is how we all learn !!!!!!!!!!!!

[robert baccus]

Sorry, a correction to the above--2 coats is usually sufficient if brushed on unthinned. Then after sanding you might shoot a thinned coat to catch any sand-throughs. this is for opengrained woods--closed grainwoods require much less. Tinting is also called shading BTW. Any white pores or cracks are merely SS dust trapped which can be eliminated by a shot of rattlecan thinner ect. It also is cool but it highlights any flaws in your smooth finish which may require additional SS and sanding.