Advice on buying tools to get started, HF, BB, or Sorby on sale?

[Frederick Ieppert]

Just getting started and I am in the process of buying tooling. I have the lathe (DVR XP) and I just finished building a sharpening jig. I have a 6" Baldor grinder but I think that I'm gooing to bite the bullet and go ahead and get a 8" grinder like almost everyone reccomends. My question is concerning the turning tools. Seems that most reccommend to get a set from Harbor Freight or the BB from PSI, but Woodcraft has a Sorby Intermediate Turning set (6 piece) on sale thru June 28th for 199.99 that looks like it would be a great buy! It includes 3/8" bowl gouge,1/2" round nose, 3/8" spindle gouge, 1/8" parting tool, 3/4" roughing gouge, and 3/4" oval skew. Is it a mistake to buy the more expensive set when just getting started? Would you use the 6" grinder since I already have it and upgrade the grinder at a later date? Thanks for your help!

[Dennis Nagle]

Hi Fred, it all depends. If you just don't know if you will continue to turn, then the expense may not be worth it. But it you are truly sucked into the vortex then good for the good stuff. You can't go wrong, however, you do have other options. Here is a good set that you can use for a long time.

http://www.amazon.com/CHISEL-8-PIECE-SAVANNAH-TURNING-TOOLS/dp/B004MM3MES/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1370959445&sr=1-1

[Reed Gray]

Buying 'sets' is not always the best deal. I got a full set of the 'Artisan' series from Craft Supplies year ago. I do use all the scrapers, and the skews (well, at least when I use a skew), but only use the gouges sparingly. The oval skew is a love/hate thing, you either love it or hate it. I think most prefer the standard one, if for no other reason, it is easier to platform sharpen. One detain/spindle gouge, 2 bowl gouges (one 40/40 bevel/sweep, or finger nail grind), one bottom feeder, a parting tool, a round nose scraper, and a spindle roughing gouge will get you through most situations. With the DVR, you will probably be making some bowls, and you would want 1/2 inch gouges, or even 5/8 for those. This is just a start.

Your 6 inch Baldor is a great grinder, and you can use it for a long time. An 8 inch grinder, generally slow speed is the most common one, but many turners use 6 inch grinders. If you want to upgrade it, you should consider the CBN grinding wheels from D Way Tools. The best value for tools, to me, are the tools from Doug Thompson, and D Way. You are buying from the guy who makes the tools. The 'el cheap o' tool sets listed above can have variable quality, but they do work.

robo hippy

[Thom Sturgill]

In my limited experience, there is an issue with M2 steel - it requires very precise monitoring of temperatures while hardening/tempering. BB can be very good or lousy - its somewhat of a crap-shoot. HF tools are worse as far as consistency is concerned. I have never had a problem with Sorby tools or any of the 'premium' name brands (or Packard's house brand for that matter).

My next question would be the selection - While the spindle roughing gouge, and bowl and spindle gouges are fine, I personally do not like the oval skew and think the scrapers are a little on the light side. On the other hand, pricing equivalent SRG, Bowl and Spindle gouges and a rounded edge skew (my favorite) from Packard went over $200 and no scrapers. So I would say that is a fair deal even if the scrapers get little use. This is a common problem with 'sets' - they add in a few questionable tools in order to move them, IMHO.

Don't forget to get a good parting tool. I keep both a 1/8" and a super thin 1/16" tool on hand.

[Montgomery Scott]

Of those you mentioned the Sorby is the best value. Any tools you don't like or don't use can be sold more easily than the low end tools. Having said that I have never purchased a set, but acquired them singly. The tools I go to most frequently are: 3/8 and 1/2 P&N bowl gouges, 1-1/2 Sorby rougher, 1-1/2 Footprint skew, Ci1 Easy rougher, 3/4 heavy scraper, 1/16 Ashley Isles parting tool, 9/16 Henry Taylor spindle gouge.

[Mel Fulks]

Thom, I appreciate your earlier post clearing my ignorance about how m2 tools and blank knife stock are made. But some of the well known brands of turning tools ,(I've seen one ),marked "high speed" are actually semi high speed . Easy to tell by color ,the poor surface they make ,and the fact that the slightest over heating when grinding them ruins temper. I think I'd favor faulty m2 over the semi high speeds but so far I haven't had to deal with any.

[Wally Dickerman]

I usually don't recommend buying tools in a set but the Sorby tools you mentioned are all tools that you will use. My experience with cheap BB and HF tools is not good. I bought two BB tools mostly to satisfy my curiosity. A 1/2 in. round nose was okay. A 3/4 in roughing gouge would not hold an edge. I actually threw it in the trash. Students have brough HF tools to class. Some were okay, others questionable. IMO you're better off buying quality tools. You'll be using them for a long time.

[Dennis Ford]

I have a lot of turning tools but most of them are for convenience, a set like you mentioned is adequate for most work. I strongly recommend that you keep the grinder (you may need to replace the wheel depending on what type of grinding wheel you have).

[Fred Belknap]

Fred I bought the Sorby set you mentioned when I first started turning. It served me well and I still use all of them on occasion. The bowl gouge is worn down till I have problems sharpening it on the Wolverine jig. I think I paid around $250 when I got them. I don't like or use the oval skew much but it works in some situations. I now have a whole rack of tools but all the Sorby ones are still there.

[Ronald Campbell]

My purchase of tools started with a set from Woodcraft. As my turnings developed I needed different tools. I have learned to buy when I need a tool and use it. 80% of what I do is with the 3/8 bowl gouge with the fingernail grind. I would hope you are in a club in your area and spend sometime with the experienced turners. Ask for a tool demo and see if you can do a hands on with all the different tools. Almost all of my tools are Sorby. I also have several of the carbide tools. Best of luck you are about to enter the vortex of money

[Frederick Ieppert]

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like I'll be going with the Sorby's. I enjoy quality tools. Believe me I know all too well what a money vortex can be like! We use to race, first stock cars back in the 70's and then karts and modifieds in the 90's. I will look ito the club situation in my area, I think that there is one in Columbia, MO about 30 miles from me. By the way my first name is actually Bart but I used my dads name (my middle) as my user name as a way to honor his memory since he has passed.

[Donny Lawson]

Usually, you get what you pay for. Buy cheap tools and spend your time sharpening or Buy good tools (even if you have to buy 1 here and 1 there) and spend your time turning out good projects. It's your choice. I buy good tools but usually 1 at a time as I can afford them.

[Jon Shank]

I'm going to go against the grain here. I have both sets from HF, the real cheep blonde handled set and the slightly nicer dark handled set(39 and 59 respectively I believe). The cheapies are a little disappointing but usable, the slightly nicer dark handled set are heavier and feel more solid in the hand. The biggest reason I am advocating them is because they are cheep. If you are really new and don't have the grinding skills down your going to use up some steel just figuring out how to get decent edges period let alone figuring out what shapes and edges work best for what you make and how you work. I've ground a couple inches off the small detail gouge in the blonde set, but so what? I am learning what works for me shape wise and burning up cheap steel to learn it. They hold an ok edge and work fine for learning anyway. I'm awfully glad to be wasting a couple inches of steel on these cheap tools before doing that learning curve to some poor unsuspecting Sorby. Your mileage may well vary, but I think they are worthwhile just as grinder fodder to learn your shaping and sharpening chops.

And don't take this as championing the cheep tools, far from it. I just don't feel like I'm wasting lots of money screwing up good tools, and hey, these do cut well enough for learning. Then after you have your sharpening and shapes down, spend the money on the better tools. That's my plan anyway.

Jon

[Marvin Hasenak]

I'm going to go against the grain here. I have both sets from HF, the real cheep blonde handled set and the slightly nicer dark handled set(39 and 59 respectively I believe). The cheapies are a little disappointing but usable, the slightly nicer dark handled set are heavier and feel more solid in the hand. The biggest reason I am advocating them is because they are cheep. If you are really new and don't have the grinding skills down your going to use up some steel just figuring out how to get decent edges period let alone figuring out what shapes and edges work best for what you make and how you work. I've ground a couple inches off the small detail gouge in the blonde set, but so what? I am learning what works for me shape wise and burning up cheap steel to learn it. They hold an ok edge and work fine for learning anyway. I'm awfully glad to be wasting a couple inches of steel on these cheap tools before doing that learning curve to some poor unsuspecting Sorby. Your mileage may well vary, but I think they are worthwhile just as grinder fodder to learn your shaping and sharpening chops.

And don't take this as championing the cheep tools, far from it. I just don't feel like I'm wasting lots of money screwing up good tools, and hey, these do cut well enough for learning. Then after you have your sharpening and shapes down, spend the money on the better tools. That's my plan anyway.

Jon
I think it is a good plan, I have seen people trying to learn to sharpen their high dollar chisels, by the time they have it figured out those high dollar chisels were getting short.

[Thom Sturgill]

I think it is a good plan, I have seen people trying to learn to sharpen their high dollar chisels, by the time they have it figured out those high dollar chisels were getting short.

On the other hand, trying to sharpen junk is futile. If the steel will not take a good edge, then you not only do not learn to sharpen, you do not learn to turn properly.

[Robert Henrickson]

If you use a jig, and have a little bit of instruction, learning will cost you less than 1/8" of a tool.

[Marvin Hasenak]

I judge a craftsman by his work, not by his tools.

[Jon Shank]

They're a little soft as compared to the better tools, judging from (higher end metal) flat work chisels and from knives, but not all that soft and not elastic or smeary at all. If anything, for the class of steel I'd say they are a little brittle. I don't think classifying them as junk is fair, they just aren't high end steel. I've been doing straight edges for a long time and knives since I was a tyke, but the curved 3d grinds for gouges have frankly not been easy to get right even with the wolverine jig. I can get a sharp edge no problem, but playing with different angles and shapes for different applications has taken a fair amount of playing around. And I'm doing that playing around on cheap stuff that grinds easy, so if I'm a couple degrees off on the bevel or realize after the fact that I had the jig set wrong and ground the detail gouge with bowl gouge settings I'm burning cheap steel and not a ton of time. And to be fair to the cheap tools, when I get the grind right the tools do their part and hold a pretty decent edge for a pretty decent amount of time or cutting, all things considered. I'm getting to where I'm alot more comfortable with what I'm doing and not making dumb mistakes anymore (or at least rarely), but it took some time and some steel to get there. Maybe my learning curve was longer or sloppier than others, don't know and don't particularly worry about it. That is a benefit of a deliberate approach including cheap tools to waste in the learning. I'm certainly much more sure that when I spend a little more coin on some better quality tools I won't be burning through alot of expensive steel to get the edges and angles I now know I like and can work with. Your mileage may vary, that's why it's yours.

Jon

[Thom Sturgill]

My point was that after about a year of turning with some success, I took a course at John Campbell and took one of my Harbor Freight gouges with me. When I first got it I did not have too much trouble sharpening it but had trouble learning when to re-sharpen as it became dull almost instantly. By the time of the John Campbell course I had shortened the gouge about 1" and was having trouble even getting an edge becasue the metal 'burned' at the lightest touch to the wheel. My instructor tried sharpening it and he gave up too and loaned me one of his M2 Packard gouges - WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
Not only could I get a good edge - my technique was fine - but it kept it for a reasonable amount of time. So I still say - those were junk and deserved to be thrown away. It is a disservice to learners to burden them with tools that can not be sharpened.

[Frederick Ieppert]

Saturday I went to the woodcraft store in St Louis and bought the 6 piece set of Sorby's. I will buy additional tools as I learn and need them. I have a sharpening jig that I built that is very much like a Oneway. I know there will be a learning curve to the sharpening but I have been working with metal all my life and am quite proficient with a grinder and shaping metal. I still need to get my grinder setup. Thanks for all you help, I have learned much from this forum so thanks again.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I will have to also say that the HF tools, while they are not comparable to ANY of the high end tools, are fine for starting, and far from JUNK to be tossed out. I still use almost all of my cheepo HF starter set. Comparing them to M2 steel is really not fair.

[Marvin Hasenak]

The best part about suggesting buying only the best is that all of my good chisels came from people that spent the high dollars and then lost interest in woodturning. I am a game callmaker, over the years I have picked up several $1000 worth of tooling, jigs, mandrels, chucks etc. for 50 cents on the dollar or less, because they thought they had to have the best. Then after a year or so they lost interest in callmaking and were selling the stuff to fund a new wild goose chase. I have 8 different toneboard jigs, new they run from $100 to $250, I paid about $50 on the average for each of them. I have several Sorby and Thompson, etc. chisels, I didn't pay over $20 for any of them. Even the local Craigslist has woodturning bargains.

I watch the Craigslist for the area, if one looks and waits there are some real bargains out there. Because people bought the best, but changed their mind or realized there isn't a golden goose laying an egg at the end of the rainbow. Visions of grandeur or being the next Picasso of the woodturning world has caused a lot of people to buy their dream, just to sell it for 50 cents on the dollar.

You have to learn to walk before you run, you have to learn to run before you race.

[Frederick Ieppert]

I was at Woodcraft in St Louis and i did by the Sorby's. Next step is to get a sharpening system set up. As I mentioned earlier (might have been a differen post)I have built a sharpening jig very similar to the Oneway with a few twist of my own to suit me. I do have a 6 inch Baldor but I need good wheels for it, or I am struggling with if I should work on setting up an 8 inch grinder instead of buying good wheels for the 6 inch that I already have. I was wondering if I could put 8 inch CBN wheels on the 6 inch Baldor since you don't have to run the guards with CBN wheels? I was concerned though that it might not have enough power to handle 8 inch wheels. Also I just want to say thanks for all the great info and help from everyone.

[Reed Gray]

A lot of people use 6 inch grinders for their turning tools. I just happened to have an 8 inch grinder. Putting 8 inch wheels on a 6 inch Baldor, might work. There is a huge difference in the 3/4 hp motor on my Baldor compared to the 3/4 hp motor on my no name grinder. The 8 inch wheels seem to do fine on the no name grinder for a lot of people, but if I was to do that, I would give them a hand spin before tripping the switch. D Way does make 6 inch CBN wheels, and they might work better in your 6 inch grinder.

robo hippy

[Vince Welch]

WHile a bit late to the discussion two things come to mind concerning this topic. First, if you continue to turn for any length of time you will probobly purchase many other tools. SOme how some way you will find a way to get more tools... lol! Second, tool handles are often not discussed but are very fundimental in tool comfort. I really really like longer handles that are available on the Henry Taylor tools Craft Supplys carries!!! I do not care for the shorter handle on the Sorby tools. It is a personal preference but I like using my body in turning my shapes and having a long handle close to my hip helps me achieve my goals. V