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bob cohen
06-10-2013, 9:44 PM
I apologize if this question has been asked before, but if you could have just one stationary tool to complement a well-equipped hand tool shop what would it be? I build all types of fine furniture, mostly in mahagony and quartersawn white oak, and use virtually no sheet goods, even for drawer bottoms and chest backs. The question is an important one for me as I just sold my cabinet saw, 8 inch jointer, lunchbox planer, and 16 inch (older) laguna bandsaw in preparation for a move to a new city and shop. My new shop (maybe 500 sq feet) is significantly smaller than my old one so I do not ever envision replacing all of my old stationary tools. I have a good assortment of handplanes, saws, chisels, routers (with good dust collection) and a fantastic Ruobo workbench, which I made and posted about last year. My current thought is to buy a great bandsaw (something like a laguna LT18) and see how far that takes me, but I am interested in your opinions. I hate fine dust, so let's rule out lathes from the get go.

David Weaver
06-10-2013, 9:53 PM
A high quality bandsaw, without a doubt. With a good carbide blade it can rip cleanly, and you can resaw drawer sides, etc with it.

I'd still keep the lunch box planer and face and edge joint boards by hand. I have had a 6 inch jointer for a long time, but rarely use it. I can edge joint long boards by hand easily, and face joint them planer ready very quickly without caring about the width.

Frederick Skelly
06-10-2013, 10:07 PM
+1. Id get the good bandsaw. Mine is constantly in use.

Jim Fay
06-10-2013, 10:44 PM
+2 on Bandsaw. It has become my go to tool for sure.

Shawn Pixley
06-11-2013, 1:53 AM
I'll be the dissenter here. I would take a good table saw. I had a table saw for a long time before I had a bandsaw. I developed many techniques for cutting curves. I have learned a lot of creative (yet safe) ways of doing work with the tablesaw.

Jim Koepke
06-11-2013, 3:20 AM
I hate fine dust, so let's rule out lathes from the get go.

My suggestion was going to be to have two stationary tools, a lathe and a good bandsaw.

So it comes down to the band saw. There are three "stationaries" in my shop. Bandsaw, lathe and drill press. Thought the drill press gets moved around at times.

jtk

Hilton Ralphs
06-11-2013, 7:01 AM
+1 on the Bandsaw

Norm once said in a Fine Woodworking article that the Bandsaw should be the first stationary tool in the shop. You can cut dovetails and tenons, rip to your heart's content and re-saw for cool looking boxes etc.

Granted, ripped stock will need the attention of your number 7 but the bandsaw is pretty versatile.

Adam Cruea
06-11-2013, 7:19 AM
I'm going to throw up a vote for a bandsaw also.

I wouldn't discount a good drill press, either. There's something to be said for holes drilled perpendicular to the face of stock. :)

Richard Shaefer
06-11-2013, 7:44 AM
I'm going to dissent here, too. I have a 10 cabinet table saw and a 17" Grizzly band saw. Most of the time, the bandsaw sits in the corner and collects dust instead of making it. There are times that I NEED the bandsaw, and when that happens, no other tool will do, but I could live with just the table saw if I had to.

Chris Fournier
06-11-2013, 8:00 AM
Given your space and everyone's desire to do it all I'd go with a 5 function European Combo machine and the bandsaw of your choice. Pretty much all you need in a compact foorprint. A drill press is key as well.

george wilson
06-11-2013, 8:49 AM
Back in the 60's when I had no dust collection,and was mostly making guitars I used the bandsaw almost exclusively.

Sam Takeuchi
06-11-2013, 9:00 AM
I think bandsaw makes the most sense. You can cut straight quite ok, easily clean up knife marks by planing, scraping or sanding. Can cut curve, can cut stacked pieces, can process larger lumber pieces. And smaller foot print. And relatively safe tool compare to many other power tools and what it does.

Derek Cohen
06-11-2013, 9:15 AM
One machine? Get this one ...

http://www.machines4u.com.au/machinery/40/27940/Robland-NLX-310-Multi-Combination-Machine_81931.l.jpg

:)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Chris Hachet
06-11-2013, 10:03 AM
A high quality bandsaw, without a doubt. With a good carbide blade it can rip cleanly, and you can resaw drawer sides, etc with it.

I'd still keep the lunch box planer and face and edge joint boards by hand. I have had a 6 inch jointer for a long time, but rarely use it. I can edge joint long boards by hand easily, and face joint them planer ready very quickly without caring about the width.
My thinking exactly.....I have access to a jointer at work, but rarely edge joint with a machine, as jointing by hand is pretty quick and easy. Band saws on the other hand....are pretty much a necessity IMHO.

Chris Hachet
06-11-2013, 10:03 AM
As far as table saws go...they are really handy for longer rips as well....this would be my second choice, after the band saw.

Winton Applegate
06-11-2013, 9:08 PM
Well there is no question at all for me so I posted without reading the other replies which I will do next.
Since your new shop is going to be smallish I would go with what I have over the 18 inch bandsaw. That is unless you have a frequent use for that capacity saw.


I have the Laguna 14 from several years ago. I am in love with that saw.
Of coarse bigger is better but how often will YOU need bigger.
My 14 is used almost exclusively for resawing and for the hardest 10 inch rough planks it doesn't even slow down. The two horse Baldor motor propelled by 220 v pulling the Laguna resaw king blade is plenty powerful enough.


I can even drag it around the shop to get it out of the way without a dedicated roller base but I will get around to making one of those some day. I admit to getting out some wheels a couple of times and starting in but figured I had better things to spend my time on since moving it without wasn't too complicated.

Winton Applegate
06-11-2013, 9:26 PM
Stationary Saw vs Stationary Tool
I was confused why everybody was mentioning drill presses (that's not a saw) but since I reread your question I see.
Well OF COURSE you will need a drill press ! ! ! ! !
One turns the table to stick out perpendicular to the drill press head and adjust it to the same hight as the bandsaw table and
VIOLA
you have an out feed suport for your ten foot long, eighty pound plus, rough lumber coming off the bandsaw.
Sheeesh everybody knows that.
:eek:;):cool:

Mike Holbrook
06-11-2013, 10:11 PM
I'm with Winton, mine is the Laguna 14SUV, with the mobile base and a Driftmaster Fence. I don't see a need for anything more. Ok the Driftmaster is probably over kill but, after years of dealing with a sort of fence on an INCA 10" saw I was going to make sure I had a great fence to help me make those long rips and precise resaws. Other power tools I have are: Drill Press, Steel City Planer, Festool plunge saw, mostly for breaking up sheet goods for construction projects, but it also can provide good edges and save me from needing a jointer. My table saw is now another work table that just happens to have a very flat surface. I have not turned that beast on in over a year and now that I have the Laguna with Driftmaster and a Festool plunge saw with guide and table I don't see why I would.

john davey
06-11-2013, 11:21 PM
Bandsaw. I am dwindling my machines now and it is difficult. But the bandsaw, lathe and drill press will be the only machines I have when the dwindling is done.

Derek Cohen
06-12-2013, 5:11 AM
I apologize if this question has been asked before, but if you could have just one stationary tool to complement a well-equipped hand tool shop what would it be? I build all types of fine furniture, mostly in mahagony and quartersawn white oak, and use virtually no sheet goods, even for drawer bottoms and chest backs. The question is an important one for me as I just sold my cabinet saw, 8 inch jointer, lunchbox planer, and 16 inch (older) laguna bandsaw in preparation for a move to a new city and shop. My new shop (maybe 500 sq feet) is significantly smaller than my old one so I do not ever envision replacing all of my old stationary tools. I have a good assortment of handplanes, saws, chisels, routers (with good dust collection) and a fantastic Ruobo workbench, which I made and posted about last year. My current thought is to buy a great bandsaw (something like a laguna LT18) and see how far that takes me, but I am interested in your opinions. I hate fine dust, so let's rule out lathes from the get go.

Hi Bob

If I were starting over in a small shop, there are 3 machines I would want (if I could get them to fit).

A bandsaw is hugely useful, but really no more so than other machines. I love and use my Hammer 4400 a great deal, but one thing you do need to realise, an 18" bandsaw is a large machine. You may be happy to settle for a smaller 16" machine, perhaps even 14" if it has a good motor and resaw facilities. There is a smaller Hammer out now.

The second machine I would want in a 12" combination thicknesser/jointer with spiral head cutters. The Jet 310 looks to be ideal at its price. Hammer make a more expensive version. This is a relatively small footprint machine and it would take up the donkey work in preparing hardwood rough sawn boards.

The third machine is a floor standing drill press. Mine gets a lot of use - from drilling to grinding to polishing.

These machines will not take up much room if on wheels and capable of being moved around as needed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hilton Ralphs
06-12-2013, 5:24 AM
I have an 18" Chinese import Bandsaw but the adjustments and guides are terrible. I've since bought a Makita 12" bandsaw and I use it all the time. The 18" is now dedicated to 90 degree re-sawing and ripping.

In hindsight, I should have bought a 14" that could be extended in terms of re-saw capacity.

Curt Putnam
06-12-2013, 3:09 PM
Just to be different - on the question of saws: Consider a quality bandsaw and a tracksaw. Tracksaws, while not stationary, do stationary quality work. Not sure the duo can handle long, thin rips though. Suppose it depends on bandsaw skill.

Chris Griggs
06-12-2013, 3:28 PM
Hi Bob

If I were starting over in a small shop, there are 3 machines I would want (if I could get them to fit).

A bandsaw is hugely useful, but really no more so than other machines. I love and use my Hammer 4400 a great deal, but one thing you do need to realise, an 18" bandsaw is a large machine. You may be happy to settle for a smaller 16" machine, perhaps even 14" if it has a good motor and resaw facilities. There is a smaller Hammer out now.

The second machine I would want in a 12" combination thicknesser/jointer with spiral head cutters. The Jet 310 looks to be ideal at its price. Hammer make a more expensive version. This is a relatively small footprint machine and it would take up the donkey work in preparing hardwood rough sawn boards.

The third machine is a floor standing drill press. Mine gets a lot of use - from drilling to grinding to polishing.

These machines will not take up much room if on wheels and capable of being moved around as needed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Funny, as someone who works almost entirely by hand (though I do have a portable ts and portable router table) those are the 3 machines I persistently wish for in that exact order. On countless occasions I've found myself thinking that any and/or all 3 of those things would have made a project faster and more enjoyable for me. That's really all I wish for though in terms of stationary power tools.

Winton Applegate
06-12-2013, 9:42 PM
. Festool plunge saw
Nice.
For the once in a great while i cut up sheet goods i too use a nice circular saw and a long guide or two. I have a dedicated folding leg table with sacrificial 2x top that stands flat against the wall in my tool crib room. Some spacers with slots where the exact kerf of the saw will be so it is quick and precise to set up . Works great.

David Paulsen
06-13-2013, 9:35 AM
I don't ask this to be a horse about this subject, its really fine, but isn't this the neanderthal forum? Is everybody in here using machines? Have I gotten something wrong? I am new to this place so... Are you only working hand tools until you can purchase machinery?

Kind regards

Chris Griggs
06-13-2013, 9:54 AM
I don't ask this to be a horse about this subject, its really fine, but isn't this the neanderthal forum? Is everybody in here using machines? Have I gotten something wrong? I am new to this place so... Are you only working hand tools until you can purchase machinery?

Kind regards

Some us are working entirely or almost entirely with hand tools. Some a lot of each...some probably mostly power but still us a good bit of handtools.

This thread is asking about what might be the most useful machine/machines in an otherwise all handtool shop.

I don't think anyone here is working with handtool just because they can't purchase machinery (not that I would take issue if that was the case for someone), but that doesn't mean some machinery isn't/wouldn't be nice to have in an otherwise handtool shop. I for one have no love for resawing by hand nor for planing 3/8" off a piece of hard maple if I need 1/2" board from 4/4 stock, and would love to have a couple machines to deal with that kind of grunt work. The beauty of it is you don't need to choose either/or...

Derek Cohen
06-13-2013, 9:57 AM
Hi David

I use handtools for joinery and finishing. Sometimes I use them for completely preparing the rough stock, but more often I use them only partially in this regard. I could not conceive of working without handtools, but equally I could not conceive of doing all the donkey work by hand. The wood I use is too hard to make this a reasonable or satisfying task.

While I understand some wish to recreate some Olde Worlde environment in which power tools were not a part, the truth is that furniture makers of that era bought in their boards already processed. Today we use machines to achieve that end. This is not a justification for machinery, but a explanation why handtools and machines go together.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Dave Pugh
06-13-2013, 10:12 AM
There were also quite a few machines that were foot or water powered. Of course not every shop had them, but they were in use and mainly at the mills as Derek said.

Chris Hachet
06-13-2013, 10:14 AM
Well there is no question at all for me so I posted without reading the other replies which I will do next.
Since your new shop is going to be smallish I would go with what I have over the 18 inch bandsaw. That is unless you have a frequent use for that capacity saw.


I have the Laguna 14 from several years ago. I am in love with that saw.
Of coarse bigger is better but how often will YOU need bigger.
My 14 is used almost exclusively for resawing and for the hardest 10 inch rough planks it doesn't even slow down. The two horse Baldor motor propelled by 220 v pulling the Laguna resaw king blade is plenty powerful enough.


I can even drag it around the shop to get it out of the way without a dedicated roller base but I will get around to making one of those some day. I admit to getting out some wheels a couple of times and starting in but figured I had better things to spend my time on since moving it without wasn't too complicated.

Good to know about the 14 inch saw, my shop is also on the smallish side...I've looked at that tool with appropriate tool lust also...

David Paulsen
06-13-2013, 4:02 PM
Chris, Derek and dave, thank you for your reply. Like I wrote it's fine, it wasn't to be "against" or anything. Just me comprehending how things work here.
I work hand tools only, because I can't stand the noise and speed of machines. It's both a comfort and an idealogical thing... But just for clarification, I'm not the kind who hates machinery and wants to live in the past, I have an Iphone.

I might get a machine when the day comes where I can't do the hand preparation of the lumber anymore... Or maybe not. I have honestly felt very uneven whenever using machines in the past. Something about taking a 200 year old oak and uniforming it in a day. But I do buy my lumber rough sawn, from someone who did it very quickly, with a very big machine.

Hehe, maybe one day I will be like those vegetarian types (fruitarians) who only eat the fruits/nuts that naturally fell from the tree. I will only make furniture from an oak, that has fallen in a storm, and can't get up again.

something like that...

Mark AJ Allen
06-13-2013, 6:55 PM
I have learned to do everything well with speed using hand saws ... with the exception of resawing my lumber. I think a band saw would be the best stationary saw a hand tool user could have.

Scott T Smith
06-13-2013, 7:32 PM
Hi Bob

If I were starting over in a small shop, there are 3 machines I would want (if I could get them to fit).

A bandsaw is hugely useful, but really no more so than other machines. I love and use my Hammer 4400 a great deal, but one thing you do need to realise, an 18" bandsaw is a large machine. You may be happy to settle for a smaller 16" machine, perhaps even 14" if it has a good motor and resaw facilities. There is a smaller Hammer out now.

The second machine I would want in a 12" combination thicknesser/jointer with spiral head cutters. The Jet 310 looks to be ideal at its price. Hammer make a more expensive version. This is a relatively small footprint machine and it would take up the donkey work in preparing hardwood rough sawn boards.

The third machine is a floor standing drill press. Mine gets a lot of use - from drilling to grinding to polishing.

These machines will not take up much room if on wheels and capable of being moved around as needed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Bob, I'm pretty much with Derek. The most used machines in my shop are the jointer / planer, tablesaw, and it's a tossup between the drill press and the bandsaw.

If I were limited to only one power too, I would go with the combo jointer/planer and the Festool route for a tracksaw system. I choose this due to the time savings of converting rough sawn lumber into flat, consistently thick boards.

Rick Fisher
06-15-2013, 4:17 AM
#1 Bandsaw, bigger the better .. Something that can resaw without complaining..
#2 Jointer Bigger the better .. Something that can handle a wide board.

Matthew Hills
06-15-2013, 8:50 AM
So are you "bandsaw-first-and-only-love" folks factoring in a dust collector to go with it?
(I really dislike the fine dust I get from the bandsaw)

Matt

Sam Takeuchi
06-15-2013, 9:00 AM
So are you "bandsaw-first-and-only-love" folks factoring in a dust collector to go with it?
(I really dislike the fine dust I get from the bandsaw)

Matt

What I understood was that he disliked lathe because it's hard to contain fine dust from it, not necessarily anything that spews fine dust (as long as there are reasonably easy way to contain it). If he didn't have dust collection and wanted to avoid fine dust from power tools, most power tools would be out of question, except for portable drill/drill press.

Jim Neeley
06-15-2013, 8:17 PM
@Bob,

Since you said stationary, if you do much resaw it'd be bandsaw. If the bndsaw is just for curves I'd go for a planer and handheld power jig saw.

@David,

Many (or at least some) of us have a shop full of power tools (Unisaws, jointers, plainers, bandsaws, drill presses, routers nd router tables, dust collection, etc., etc.). For myself, I'm just choosing to swap over to hand tools most of the time due to the personal satisfaction I get from the result. Making a dovetailed drawer by hand requires attention and skill for each cut. With a router, once my dovetail jig is set up I can crank out 100 drawers essentially without skill. The hand tools re also quiet and I've never hacked up a hand plane shaving loogie. :)

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim in Alaska

Winton Applegate
06-15-2013, 9:34 PM
For dust collection I hook up my mid size Fein shop vac with the large black hose (ten foot run) to the port on the Laguna bandsaw and that is all that is needed. Easy to swap to longer, smaller diameter silver hose for general shop clean up so I don't have to drag the vac around. Can use both hoses in tandem for that occasional run out onto the drive way.

Jessica Pierce-LaRose
06-16-2013, 10:21 AM
A bandsaw is on my someday list - after I live or have access to somewhere I can put it. Dust collection with it has always been on the back of my mind. Good to know your experience with a shop vac, Winton. I've wondered if that's a decent approach; I have some trepidation about going all out on DC with only one powered tool, which would be the most likely outcome when that time comes.

bob cohen
06-25-2013, 9:10 AM
Hi Bob

If I were starting over in a small shop, there are 3 machines I would want (if I could get them to fit).

A bandsaw is hugely useful, but really no more so than other machines. I love and use my Hammer 4400 a great deal, but one thing you do need to realise, an 18" bandsaw is a large machine. You may be happy to settle for a smaller 16" machine, perhaps even 14" if it has a good motor and resaw facilities. There is a smaller Hammer out now.

The second machine I would want in a 12" combination thicknesser/jointer with spiral head cutters. The Jet 310 looks to be ideal at its price. Hammer make a more expensive version. This is a relatively small footprint machine and it would take up the donkey work in preparing hardwood rough sawn boards.

The third machine is a floor standing drill press. Mine gets a lot of use - from drilling to grinding to polishing.

These machines will not take up much room if on wheels and capable of being moved around as needed.



Regards from Perth

Derek



I had been thinking bandsaw (18 or 20 inch) followed by smallish (5-6 ft) sliding table saw. But after reading your post, I'm thinking 16 inch jointer planer next, and maybe I will never need the table saw. The 7 or 8 grand saved there sure could buy a lot of hand tools and wood! I forgot to mention in the original post that i still have my drill press, although I would like to replace it with a bigger one.

Mike Holbrook
06-25-2013, 10:02 AM
I think we have it down to the final three, thanks to Derek. In my case I have had to break up very large amounts of sheet goods for floors, walls...other construction. The Festool saw is just so great for that kind of work. It is also a better miter saw than a circular saw without the plunging feature. Since I have it for the construction work, I am going to try to use it to replace a jointer when I need a good edge. So I bought a regular planer. If we call the jointer/planer two tools then anyone who has lots of sheet goods to cut might find the Festool saw a good option for the fourth machine vs a jointer.

The other factor for me is, my lumber supplier offers a great deal on surfacing both faces and one edge of the lumber I buy.

In the case of the Festool saw the plunging is easily & precisely repeatable to just over the sheets thickness, so I just keep a nice light sheet of foam insulation/siding to toss over my cutting table surface, the floor, plywood between saw horses... and its game on. For my money I would much rather have the Festool saw than a table saw as machine 4, but I do lots of construction projects for my business and portability is a major factor. I bring this up because new guys like me may be using more sheet goods early on. For anyone doing lots of work cutting sheet goods & more construction oriented work I think the Festool or some plunge circular saw moves up to the top machine spot. Just try to find a construction worker or carpenter who does not swear by his circular saw. The new plunge circular saws sort of bridge between construction/carpentry and fine hardwood work. The value of the Festool saw isn't just in the saw though there is an amazingly well thought out collection of complimentary jigs and fixtures for these saws that tremendously increase their utility.