Name Stamp

[Derek Cohen]

I am after a name stamp for my furniture and tools, and need a recommendation. Or advice.


As I discovered in my research, there are two types of stamps. The "Makers Stamp" creates the name in relief, while the "Owners Stamp" recesses the name. So about a month ago I received a Makers Stamp from a well-known stamp maker. This had letters 1/8" high (I wanted something small that would not dominate), just my name.


As much as I tried, I could not get it to make an impression in either end grain or face grain. I gave the stamp as solid a wack as I could with a small hammer (actually a gennou). Any harder and I feared doing the wood damage. As you know, our local woods are hard.


I know the stamp works as it came with an example in what looked like white oak end grain.


So I contacted the (US) company asking for the secret. they replied ..


Yes, the end grain is the only way to get
an impression that does not crush the wood.
Your piece needs to be on a very dense solid surface
such as a cement floor, or anvil or other.
And you will need a heavy hammer like a 3lb sledge.
Depending on the size of the stamp.
Face grain can actually be done by branding.
The stamp can be heated about to a blue color, and
then held on the wood. It actually can look quite
nice making a black background with light lettering.
Work with some practice impressions in endgrain until
it works for you.


A 3 lb sledge hammer! Are they nuts! And if I wanted a branding iron, I would have sought one out at the outset. I was not pleased.


Anyone have the same experience and have a solution, or are my expectations simplistic? I think I may have to settle for an owners stamp as this has less surface area to imprint.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[David Weaver]

Hit it as hard as you need to for the impression to look right. I'd hit it with something heavy to make the odds of a good strike better. A 3 pound hammer seems about right.

[Bill Fleming]

Hey Derek

Yes you have found the problem with stamps, although I find their answer crazy - for simple marking of a piece I just use the individual letter and number stamps from LV - with care in alignment of each stamp initials and dates look great especially when filled with a fine point permanent artist pen. But all in all I prefer designing a simple mark and learning to carve it fast and well.

Cheers - Bill

[Chris Vandiver]

Try these people;

http://www.spanglefish.com/metalstamps/

[Jim Koepke]

As much as I tried, I could not get it to make an impression in either end grain or face grain. I gave the stamp as solid a wack as I could with a small hammer (actually a gennou).

What is that old adage?

When all else fails try a bigger hammer.

Test it with the sledge on a piece of scrap. For best results one hit will be best. There could be a problem with registration if trying to do it with two whacks.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Derek, can you post a picture of the stamp? Does it make a patterned impression like Larry's stamp (the old clark and williams one?), or is it just some fairly faint letters? If it makes a depressed area, I'd imagine you're really going to have to nail it. If it doesn't work as it is (a gennou is too light), there's no real choice but to hit it harder, otherwise it's just a wasted tool.

I wouldn't be afraid to really nail it, and if you're afraid of hitting it with a hardened hammer (presume that it's only moderately hardened), find something like a 2 pound chinese brass hammer and let it just mar the face of the brass hammer.

Personally, I'd strike it as hard as i needed to for it to make the impression I wanted in the wood, regardless of the cost. Unless you learn to carve tidy marks, nothing else will look as good as the maker stamp.

[Trevor Walsh]

I think I have a stamp from the same company. I use it in the Beech and birch plane bodies I'm slowly working on.

YEs it takes a very stout support like a cement floor or end grain log and a heavy heavy hammer. I use a 3lb sledge, but I'd go for a 4 if I could find one. Having the stamp square and well positioned then letting it rip is the only way of getting it right. Any hesitation or miss strike makes it look bad. You need a much bigger hammer than what you're using.

[Jussi Auvinen]

I've seen wood stamping done by applying pressure with a bar clamp (heavy duty).
You might want to try that, make a jig to hold the stamp and the piece and apply pressure!

[Jim Neeley]

I am after a name stamp for my furniture and tools, and need a recommendation. Or advice.


As I discovered in my research, there are two types of stamps. The "Makers Stamp" creates the name in relief, while the "Owners Stamp" recesses the name. So about a month ago I received a Makers Stamp from a well-known stamp maker. This had letters 1/8" high (I wanted something small that would not dominate), just my name.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Please pardon my simplistic response. No offense in intended.

A name in relieve inherant means the letters stand proud of the surrounding area. This involves either elevating the letters or lowering the surrounding material. Elevating the letters (to the best of my knowledge) would require an applique, which I'm assuming isn't your desire.

Lowering the surrounding area involves some combination of crushing the fibers, cutting or gouging the materia, burning the fibers, or lasing (yes I know, a form of burning) the material away. Those are the methods that come to mind.

I do remember seeing a high-end builder in Boulder, Colorado who had lased "coins" made up for him containing his mark and he would inset them in his work. He used a contrasting color for accent but you could place an order with an assortment of lumber; I seem to remember the setup fee was the relatively pricey part but I don't know why (if you provide the material) it should cost much more to get them in assorted materials.

The quality of your work would certainly warrant such an investment.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim

[george wilson]

On wooden planes the 18th.C. makers made really DEEP stampings. I think they MAY have soaked the end of the plane in water for a while to soften the end grain. However,there is never a trace of water marks on the planes. Other than that, I would just use a very heavy hammer,as suggested. Beech isn't as hard as some of your woods,no doubt.

[Joe Bailey]

Hi Derek
Not long after reading your post, I came across this:
http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/2013/06/stamping-planes.html

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks for the link Joe. That was really helpful.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Vandiver]

Derek,

Please pardon my simplistic response. No offense in intended.

A name in relieve inherant means the letters stand proud of the surrounding area. This involves either elevating the letters or lowering the surrounding material. Elevating the letters (to the best of my knowledge) would require an applique, which I'm assuming isn't your desire.

Lowering the surrounding area involves some combination of crushing the fibers, cutting or gouging the materia, burning the fibers, or lasing (yes I know, a form of burning) the material away. Those are the methods that come to mind.

I do remember seeing a high-end builder in Boulder, Colorado who had lased "coins" made up for him containing his mark and he would inset them in his work. He used a contrasting color for accent but you could place an order with an assortment of lumber; I seem to remember the setup fee was the relatively pricey part but I don't know why (if you provide the material) it should cost much more to get them in assorted materials.

The quality of your work would certainly warrant such an investment.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim

This link defines the two different types of stamps nicely;

http://www.spanglefish.com/metalstamps/index.asp?pageid=318975

[Jim Koepke]

Musings from Big Pink mentions using multiple blows to sink in his stamp. My previous thought of one hit being best may not be valid.

jtk

[Jim Neeley]

Thanks for the links, guys. Very interesting!!

[phil harold]

Musings from Big Pink mentions using multiple blows to sink in his stamp. My previous thought of one hit being best may not be valid.

jtk
I have a stamp with 1/8th of an inch letters
one clean blow works best
I use a 2 or three pound maul

I dont understand them telling you to heat up the punch...
Wouldn't you lose the temper?

[Trevor Walsh]

Phil, yes, and I think that would look terrible, I don't intend to try it but I feel like the letters would be toasted too, not just the sunk field.

[george wilson]

Just for stamping wood,heating the stamp to blue would bring it to a spring steel temper(about 52 Rockwell,depending upon the steel,original tempering temperature,etc.). The stamp would still work on wood. I use my stamps on metal too,and would not like to heat them to blue.

[Bob Strawn]

Pipe Makers, who want a subtle but substantial mark in burl, love the stamps made by Paul Argendorf, amsteelstamps@yahoo.com.

I have one, and for putting a small mark on a tool, I find it quite good. I did not make perfect marks the first time I used it. I had to learn how to use it. One of the things I learned is that each block of wood will act a bit differently. The main trick that I learned was to mark the wood before starting the project. This way I know what it will take to make a good mark. First I clean the face of the wood so the case hardened wood does not mess up my test. My favorite method is to press the mark in with a vise. Sometimes I wet the wood with turpentine, drive the mark home with the vise and leave it there for a bit. Some wood has a strong dry/wet memory and it seems the mark needs to be made in both states if you want it to survive finishing.

It is horrid when you make a nice but subtle mark, finish the tool and then find that the mark is now closer to undetectable than it is to subtle.

Paul Argendorf's stamps are not cheap, and they are not the universal answer to all woodwork markings. They also take a bit of learning and experimentation to use well. The makers of fine burl pipes swear by them. I am quite pleased with mine!

Email Paul Argendorf amsteelstamps@yahoo.com

A & M Steel Stamps 55 Windsor Ave.
Mineola, N.Y. 11501


-Bob

[David Barnett]

I realize you're wanting something small, unobtrusive and commercially made, Derek—and I think Bob Strawn may have your answer—so while this might not appeal to you, someone else might find it useful, interesting or entertaining. For stamps in your preferred dimensions, a pipemaker's stamp or jeweler's Microstamp (http://www.microstampusa.com/)* may be just the thing.


As much as I tried, I could not get it to make an impression in either end grain or face grain. I gave the stamp as solid a wack as I could with a small hammer (actually a gennou). Any harder and I feared doing the wood damage. As you know, our local woods are hard.

...
A 3 lb sledge hammer! Are they nuts! And if I wanted a branding iron, I would have sought one out at the outset. I was not pleased.

While accepting it's not a panacea, I'm rather fond of the bigger hammer path to problem solving,

Having made stamps and brass bookbinding handle letters and having even tried my hand at punchcutting, I just had to make my own stamp soon after creating my first furniture pieces.

Laser toner transfer makes it straightforward and you're not limited to manufacturer's typefaces and poor letter-spacing—you can make your own logo and even draw it by hand, scan it in, reduce and reverse it, transfer and you're good to start excavating. It doesn't have to be anything approaching perfect—a few chips in letter edges will just give it that Caslon Antique (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caslon_Antique) flavor.

Pros

• You can have exactly what you want.
• Your stamp will be entirely unique.
• Cheap.
• Fun to try new things.
• Is easier, goes more quickly than one might imagine and is quite satisfying.
• If you don't like it, grind it off and start over.
• Could provide an excuse to buy another tool or two.
• Can also stamp leather, and so on. Can also ink it (acrylic paint works) and print it.

Cons

• You'll need tool steel and a torch to heat treat it or send it out.
• Helps to have a Dremel or flexshaft.
• An optivisor is helpful (nice for sharpening DT saws, too).
• Buying a ready-made stamp is easier.
• Does take more time than simply ordering a stamp.
• Might need to buy another tool.
• Can become addictive.

Tips

• Keep it small. Larger stamps need much bigger hammers—a 3-lb sledge or drilling hammer, even.
• Keep it simple—use initials, monograms or simple symbols.
• Keep letter and line weights to as thin as possible—takes less force to punch and gives cleaner impression.
• If you want to stamp the year, do that separately ('95 came far more quickly after '94 than I expected).

Other thoughts

• For reliefs, it's surprising easy and quick to "background" letters with simple punches, stamps, rotary burrs and gravers, and yields an attractive hand-wrought look. Dyeing or otherwise coloring the ground can also set off the letters, glyphs, shapes.
• If you mess up, you can always insert a piece made from another bit of wood or a medallion (all my personalizing is with medallions—cast, carved, repoussed, engraved, etched, enameled, whatever) and it'll look terrific.
• And Bob Strawn's right—for tiny maker's marks suitable for pipes or pens, Paul's stamps are the way to go.


Anyone have the same experience and have a solution, or are my expectations simplistic? I think I may have to settle for an owners stamp as this has less surface area to imprint.

Wood engravers had various secrets to their ground preparation, one which involved treating engrain with boiling wood ash solution (lye) to partially delignify it. Just a thought—not really suggesting you try this, but...

*I highly recommend Microstamp products—the smaller hammer solution—and use them for all manner of things; jewelry hallmarking and eyeglasses frames, tool and security I.D. stamping, and more.

[David Weaver]

This link defines the two different types of stamps nicely;

http://www.spanglefish.com/metalstamps/index.asp?pageid=318975

Has Chris or anyone else ordered from Metalstamps? Anyone have any idea how much a stamp like the carter stamp might be? I think it looks fantastic and would love to have one that only had my last name on it. Most of the stamps I have seen elsewhere have a font that I can't live with and they lack that 1800s and early 1900s style that the carter stamp has.

It is somewhat tempting to try to make one.

George, what temper would you make a stamp - would it be knife/tool temper, or something more like spring temper (under the assumption it would never go in anything harder than wood, anyway)?

[Frank Drew]

All this talk about 3-lb sledge hammers, wetting the wood, heating the stamp, etc., make me glad I went with small brass plaques to mark my furniture.