What happened to class? All we have is crass.

[Biff Johnson]

Dovetailing off Joe Kieve's rant about music, I have my own rant.

When did people stop teaching their kids how to behave in public? I have been so many places with my family lately where young men in particular (but not always) think it is socially acceptable to spout off with foul language.

Let me say that I'm no prude and I've used salty language, even around my kids. However, I know that when I'm in public other people might not appreciate that language.

There just seems to be no filter anymore and the "f bomb" is dropped as casually as a gum wrapper. In the past, a staredown would shut many of them up but lately they seem more brazen and uncaring. Confronting them would probably just lead to a physical confrontation, given their already aggressive behavior.

I guess it's just part of a general downward spiral of manhood. Lump it in with not taking your hat off in a building, not holding the door for a woman, shutting up during the national anthem and wearing dirty shirt and jeans to the school "holiday" program.

Sigh...thanks for the rant.

[Brian Ashton]

I moved to australia a month before my wife and I can remember sending a text to her saying I've never heard the c word, f word and please said so often said in the same sentence at work in the course of a day. And often by women! 8 years on it still raises my eye brows - especially when it's in what are suppose to be quite professional settings.

[Jim Matthews]

I have two young sons.

In a public place, if I hear something objectionable I look at the speaker and say,
"Excuse me, I have two little tape recorders here."

Typically, the speaker is genuinely embarassed.

On rare occasion, when the speaker is obstinant (invariably female) I engage management.
It only continues if we tolerate it. If you're in public with your kids you are the filter.

I suppose the only recourse, failing the the first two approaches is to ask for the check, contact the general manager
and in a clear, firm tone of voice explain why you, and the $xxx.xx you spend weekly will be going elsewhere.

I've even had success with this at hockey games (and I'm not what you would call imposing).

90% of the time - it's related to alcohol consumption.
(The speaker, not me.)

[Joe Kieve]

I wholeheartedly agree with Biff. But I blame much of the language problem on television and the movies folks are watching and attending nowadays. Not many years ago you never heard SOB on TV but it's now commonplace on many of the shows we watch. There just seems to be no censoring.

[Chuck Wintle]

Dovetailing off Joe Kieve's rant about music, I have my own rant.

When did people stop teaching their kids how to behave in public? I have been so many places with my family lately where young men in particular (but not always) think it is socially acceptable to spout off with foul language.

Let me say that I'm no prude and I've used salty language, even around my kids. However, I know that when I'm in public other people might not appreciate that language.

There just seems to be no filter anymore and the "f bomb" is dropped as casually as a gum wrapper. In the past, a staredown would shut many of them up but lately they seem more brazen and uncaring. Confronting them would probably just lead to a physical confrontation, given their already aggressive behavior.

I guess it's just part of a general downward spiral of manhood. Lump it in with not taking your hat off in a building, not holding the door for a woman, shutting up during the national anthem and wearing dirty shirt and jeans to the school "holiday" program.

Sigh...thanks for the rant.
its a lack of proper rearing and likely the kid has heard often in his/her house that, to them at least, it becomes a normal way of expressing oneself. the f bomb is a substitute for a lack of vocabulary often. but i rate the f bomb right up there with the word "awesome" and others.

[Lee Schierer]

I blame it on television and parents. TV often bleeps the words, but delay just long enough so it leaves no doubt what the person said anyway. Several of the more popular shows the "stars" use a lot of swear words and because the TV depicts them as cool, kids think this is how they can be cool too. And their parents don't tell them that normal people don't talk this way. Cursing is a sure sign of a limited vocabulary. I exercise my right not to hear those words by changing the channel or as others have stating leaving the establishment. I'll have to remember to include telling management why I'm leaving the next time. That is a good idea.

[Biff Johnson]

I agree that television and movies has a lot to do with it. I don't let me kids watching hardly any tv because the parents are usually portrayed as buffoons who don't deserve any respect.

My Dad cussed at home, although certain words were never used. I guess I grew up knowing those few choice words were for extreme circumstances. Now they are used commonplace. Despite hearing cussing around the home (usually while working on a car) I knew that when I left the home and was in the general public that language wasn't tolerated.

Yes, alcohol is often involved but frequently it is a group of teenage boys and girls. Funny because my buddies and I used to be a hell-raising bunch and drank quite a bit; but we would have never considered standing in a movie theater line and using the f-word loudly and frequently.

[Keith Outten]

Go to almost any high school, foul language has become commonplace in the halls and in the class rooms.

There used to be a law in my home town against violent and abusive language in public. The police would arrest you and take you to the city jail. Every city, state and the federal government should pass legislation against unacceptable language and enforce it religiously.
.

[Jim Rimmer]

I agree that it is the media, partly to blame. Remember how the eyebrows were raised when Rhett Butler told Scarlett O'Hara that frankly, he didn't give a d***. That stirred up a controversy. Now, anything goes. It is also those of us who are offended sitting quietly and letting it happen (me included) rather than face what might become a bad confrontation. Remember that Desi and Lucy couldn't even say she was pregnant - too suggestive. She was in a "family way".

[Dan Hintz]

very city, state and the federal government should pass legislation against unacceptable language and enforce it religiously.

Please, oh please, tell me you're trolling, Keith... I'm not a fan of younguns spouting colorful language, but laws against it? Would you like me to throw a book or two on the bonfire for you while we're at it?

[Larry Browning]

I tend to agree with Dan. It should be socially unacceptable, but against the law??? This is a very slippery slope.

[Mel Fulks]

Part of the increase in public vulgarity is the result of a society that does not understand that there is a need of some formality .Every time I'm in a doctors office and hear a "Bob " or "Mary" called for their appointment and see someone three times the age of the receptionist get up ,I wonder how we got where we are. Heard a country's leader call another country's leader by a knick name in a press conference recently!

[ray hampton]

Go to almost any high school, foul language has become commonplace in the halls and in the class rooms.

There used to be a law in my home town against violent and abusive language in public. The police would arrest you and take you to the city jail. Every city, state and the federal government should pass legislation against unacceptable language and enforce it religiously.
.

Keith, there was talk about verbally abuse [I hope that my spelling are correct ] against the older people maybe 2 months ago, simply put, if someone call you a hillbilly then you can get them arrested

[Brian Elfert]

The TV networks could certainly influence the studios to make TV shows without profanity. Bleeping out profanity is not a replacement for not using profanity. Almost everyone thinks about the real word when profanity is bleeped out.

[Steve Meliza]

Who decides what crass is? What about words spelled differently but pronounced the same or so similarly that you can't tell the difference? What makes people get offended at the f-word but not "frak" from Battlestar Galactica? Is a word not offensive if you don't understand the language it was uttered in? I checked the Bible for unutterable words and came up blank, is there some other moral compass that lists them? I'll have to check the first amendment, I'm sure it lists all of the circa 1776 dirty words like "darn", "dang", and "dagnabbit".

I don't hear much swearing at work or in public, but I don't frequent the high schools so I could be missing it. However, if forced to choose then I'd rather hear a continual string "swear" words than have the kids drinking and raising hell. I'm certainly not advocating the use of such words in public, just a little tolerance and grace towards users of words that some people decide to get offended at and feel they have the right to make others not use them.

[John Coloccia]

I'm unimpressed with the concept of making offensive anything illegal. One day, we find curse words offensive. Tomorrow we might find expressing religious ideas offensive.....or has that happened already? Maybe next week, we'll decide that disagreeing with the president is offensive....or has that already happened too?

Seriously. Take responsibility for yourself...your own mouth and your own ears. We really don't need to go down this path again, do we?

[David Weaver]

I'm with you, John. If someone is spewing bad language in front of kids, then the folks who are with the kids can line them out. We don't need police running around wasting tax dollars enforcing that kind of thing, and we don't need people with arrest records for cursing in public. That's totally ridiculous.

I'm not condoning anything as acceptable behavior, necessarily, but there is a difference between unacceptable and worthy of police action.

[Phil Thien]

It is kind of a sad day when we equate the absence of foul language with class.

Only using G language seems like a like a low threshold for being classy.

But I guess I do agree it is probably a good place to start.

[ray hampton]

[QUOTE=Steve Meliza;2119461]Who decides what crass is? What about words spelled differently but pronounced the same or so similarly that you can't tell the difference? What makes people get offended at the f-word but not "frak" from Battlestar Galactica? Is a word not offensive if you don't understand the language it was uttered in? I checked the Bible for unutterable words and came up blank, is there some other moral compass that lists them? I'll have to check the first amendment, I'm sure it lists all of the circa 1776 dirty words like "darn", "dang", and "dagnabbit".

I wonder about what version of bible you use , the following words were consider unutterable when I were a kid [ piss] dung and they are in the King James Bible, the word "blood" are prohibit by some internet sites

[ray hampton]

I'm unimpressed with the concept of making offensive anything illegal. One day, we find curse words offensive. Tomorrow we might find expressing religious ideas offensive.....or has that happened already? Maybe next week, we'll decide that disagreeing with the president is offensive....or has that already happened too?

Seriously. Take responsibility for yourself...your own mouth and your own ears. We really don't need to go down this path again, do we?

THIS WILL DEPEND on whom we are talking to, a drunk or someone high on dope will not stop you from using 4-letters words but a true minister of GOD will disagree with a potty-mouth, a female dog is a female dog not a ITCH

[Mel Fulks]

I don't think the law is the best way ,or even a good way to deal with the problem . But it is a mistake to think that it would be something new .The laws are old , and in many places still on the books. But strong social censure always did most of the policing and that is gone. With the anonimnity of modern city life it won't come back.

[Steve Meliza]

a female dog is a female dog not a ITCH Walk into a dog show and you'll quickly learn that "dog" is the males and that other word is for the female canines. It is said seriously, with a straight face, without malice, without ill intent, and no one takes offense because it is the proper language.

In regards to your previous post, the 1560 version of the Geneva Bible. That KJV stuff is just too newfangled for me.

[ray hampton]

Walk into a dog show and you'll quickly learn that "dog" is the males and that other word is for the female canines. It is said seriously, with a straight face, without malice, without ill intent, and no one takes offense because it is the proper language.

In regards to your previous post, the 1560 version of the Geneva Bible. That KJV stuff is just too newfangled for me.

is a fox or a wolf a canine ? a female fox are a vixen , if foxes and wolves are canines then the word dog must be use to refer to the group of canine that will not included foxes or wolves
do the library have a Genera bible [1560 ]
this might be a worthy study, thank you

[Chuck Wintle]

I'm unimpressed with the concept of making offensive anything illegal. One day, we find curse words offensive. Tomorrow we might find expressing religious ideas offensive.....or has that happened already? Maybe next week, we'll decide that disagreeing with the president is offensive....or has that already happened too?

Seriously. Take responsibility for yourself...your own mouth and your own ears. We really don't need to go down this path again, do we?
John,

IMHO offensive words will always be spoken but I am hearing a lot of f bombs and others words that suggest a lack of education or a family situation that did nothing to stop the behavior. When the originator of the offensive words realizes that someone is listening and is judging them at the same time I often see a shift in how they speak.

[David Weaver]

When the originator of the offensive words realizes that someone is listening and is judging them at the same time I often see a shift in how they speak.

This isn't limited to profanity, though. It's pretty much the case any time anyone has any private conversation that they are expressing any opinion.

It's pretty much universal that every generation was sure the next was bringing the end of the world with their manners or the lack of decorum to some arbitrary standard.

[David Weaver]

THIS WILL DEPEND on whom we are talking to, a drunk or someone high on dope will not stop you from using 4-letters words but a true minister of GOD will disagree with a potty-mouth, a female dog is a female dog not a ITCH

The origin of the word was around 1000 ad according to dictionary.com, and it didn't take on a disparaging definition until 1400. That's, by their numbers, 400 years before it was hijacked. It's still used with regularity at every dog show I've ever seen, including any on broadcast TV. It still retains two non-disparaging official definitions.

[John Coloccia]

John,

IMHO offensive words will always be spoken but I am hearing a lot of f bombs and others words that suggest a lack of education or a family situation that did nothing to stop the behavior. When the originator of the offensive words realizes that someone is listening and is judging them at the same time I often see a shift in how they speak.

Personally I don't care, and under the right circumstances I've been known unload a stream of profanity that would curl a sailor's toes, but there are other things people say that I do find offensive and it's my choice to put up with it, say something or simply leave. I think it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that such speech should actually be a against the law.

[Biff Johnson]

Part of the increase in public vulgarity is the result of a society that does not understand that there is a need of some formality .Every time I'm in a doctors office and hear a "Bob " or "Mary" called for their appointment and see someone three times the age of the receptionist get up ,I wonder how we got where we are. Heard a country's leader call another country's leader by a knick name in a press conference recently!

Amen. My wife's doctor goes by "Doctor Matt" (first name) you know, to keep it informal. I don't want to be informal with my doctor. I also don't want the teenager at Circuit City to call me by my first name.

[Brian Ashton]

its a lack of proper rearing and likely the kid has heard often in his/her house that, to them at least, it becomes a normal way of expressing oneself. the f bomb is a substitute for a lack of vocabulary often. but i rate the f bomb right up there with the word "awesome" and others.


I can't say I disagree with you but I've seen the other side of that in my family. My father never swore in frontof us kids. The worst word I can remember hearing was bugger. But I have one brother that is really foul mouthed. He's really bad and his son is the opposite, never heard him say any foul words when I went to visit.

[Brian Ashton]

It is kind of a sad day when we equate the absence of foul language with class.

Only using G language seems like a like a low threshold for being classy.

But I guess I do agree it is probably a good place to start.

But it works. I often have people here apologise for swearing in front of me. To be honest, without being mistaken for being arrogant or such cause I certainly don't think I have any class, it does elevate me. But not because I try to elevate myself but because those around me notice I don't swear and pull themselves up when they do in my presence.

[Brian Ashton]

There's a few here saying its ridiculous to make foul language illegal... But I think in most states and provinces it is actually illegal isn't it - just not enforced.

[John Coloccia]

There's a few here saying its ridiculous to make foul language illegal... But I think in most states and provinces it is actually illegal isn't it - just not enforced.

There are some states here that have provisions against using obscene language. Usually, it would go down more as either a disorderly conduct/disturbing the peace charge, or assault if directed threateningly against someone else. It one of those, "Your rights end when my rights begin" kind of things. I don't know of any prosecutions JUST for bad language, but sometimes it becomes part of the case. For example, language can become a big part of an assault case because it can help show motive and intent. I do vaguely remember some cases where things like this have gone to higher courts and they always side with our freedom of speech being supreme to all other concerns. Maybe freedom of "expression" is a better term because the act of speaking itself is NOT protected. So I can't yell, "FIRE" in a crowded theater, and I can't go up to someone on the street and say, "I have a gun...I'm going to shoot you".

I guess the problem is, who gets to decide what is obscene and offensive? I assure you, there are people out there that believe heckling their politician is offensive. There are people that think two gay men kissing in public is offensive. There are people that don't much likes Jews and Christians and don't want to have to listen to a prayer group having a little gathering in the park.

[Erik Loza]

My two favorite comedians are Louis CK and Jim Gaffigan. One uses a fair amount of profanity in his acts while the other does not. I find both equally funny (in similar ways). The one who uses profanity, I do not find "profane" because the bad words are used as punctuation marks or exclamation points rather than as a substitution for actual words. That is the only time I cannot deal with profanity: When the speaker seemingly has the fundamental inability to communicate in spoken English without dropping the F-bomb every other word.

Just my opinion.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Jeff Bartley]

We have young kids.....the word I really don't like to hear is 'hate'. Much worse than cursing in my opinion. Not that I'm condoning swearing in public. The real downside to kids swearing all the time is the diluting effect it'll have on the words impact: these words are to evoke a strong response, if used all the time that effect will be lost.
Overused, profanity ceases to be profane! Then what will I say when I hit my finger with my hammer?!

[Bill Edwards(2)]

Part of the increase in public vulgarity is the result of a society that does not understand that there is a need of some formality .Every time I'm in a doctors office and hear a "Bob " or "Mary" called for their appointment and see someone three times the age of the receptionist get up ,I wonder how we got where we are. Heard a country's leader call another country's leader by a knick name in a press conference recently!

The "Bob" or "Mary thing is because we have laws (HIPAA) guarding our privacy. Just wait awhile. When the right people are offended by language, they'll make it a law.

Hmmmm? We have HIPAA, yet our government can check our phone records... strange!

[Mel Fulks]

I'm not so sure your take on the name thing is correct,Bill. Possible,but where there is an older person calling the patient it's usually "Mr." or "Mrs" Whoever. All that is necessary for privacy is to stick to just saying the name .No need to say "Mr.Whoever ,the doctor is ready to look at your assteroids" Or is it hemoroids? Why can't I remember that?

[Erik Loza]

Because I'm in the habit of always opening any door for my wife, I just do it out of second nature anytime a lady happens to arrive at a doorway at the same time I do. Coffee shop, gym, etc. Don't think twice about it. Many times, the lady will say, "Thank you". Sometimes, however, they look perplexed, as if it is a shock and not really knowing how to respond. Just an interesting observation.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Seth Dolcourt]

I hope there are laws about foul language, because if someone is arrested for violating them, the DA will have to present evidence in court. It won't be "the F word" as a stand-in phrase, it will be the actual F-word, spoken out loud in front of a judge. And dutifully recorded by the court reporter. Which high school students can request as research for their civics classes.

I also look forward to my tax dollars paying for jail facilities for the angry people who didn't want pickles on their fast food hamburger. Swearing = jobs.

[Mel Fulks]

Seth ,the laws are there .Easy enough to check. I'm trying to be happy anyway.Since you have that picture of Jefferson (or have an amazing resemblance to him)you might find this interesting .Jefferson and a boy of the family were walking and an approaching slave bowed to them .Jefferson bowed in return but the boy did not. After the servant was gone Jefferson corrected the boy by saying ,"Will you allow a negro to be more of a gentleman than you are ?" I think his point was that civility is not a debt to others anymore than a personal ornament desired by the wise.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

I'm not so sure your take on the name thing is correct,Bill. Possible,but where there is an older person calling the patient it's usually "Mr." or "Mrs" Whoever. All that is necessary for privacy is to stick to just saying the name .No need to say "Mr.Whoever ,the doctor is ready to look at your assteroids" Or is it hemoroids? Why can't I remember that?

Sorry, but I've had the nurses tell me it's for HIPAA, plus my wife works at a hospital and HIPAA is super fussy about that stuff.

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks ,Bill .That is news to me and interesting that the person who thought of it is allowed to make rudeness the law.Things are worse than I thought. A sign saying take a number if you don't want your name called would make more sense .They will not summon me like someone calling a child.

[David Weaver]

I guess the problem is, who gets to decide what is obscene and offensive? I assure you, there are people out there that believe heckling their politician is offensive. There are people that think two gay men kissing in public is offensive. There are people that don't much likes Jews and Christians and don't want to have to listen to a prayer group having a little gathering in the park.

Back when I was in school at Penn State, there was a preacher who preached every day on the Willard building steps. Some of the "Defenders of free speech" at the school, you know, the kinds who only like it when they decide what other people say, had "free speech zones" set up on the school and marginalized the willard preacher and someone else to speaking in designated "free speech" areas. I have never given a nickel to the school and never will again, it was just par for the course for them to go from being an interesting place to be to a controlled PC place.

FTR, I don't care that they forced the guy to speak in a different public common area because he was speaking about religious things every day, I care that they forced him to speak in a different public common area for any reason, and I won't even name the "fest" they sponsored that was extremely offensive.

The shame of it was, I never encountered anyone at Willard who couldn't get in and out to class, but there were always people there who were either openly debating with the Willard preacher (because of their own religious views or lack of them), or who found religion on their own accord. The ability for everyone to listen if they wanted to or not listen if they didn't want to, or engage in mental exercise...I kind of thought that's what "it's about" at college.

[ray hampton]

Thanks ,Bill .That is news to me and interesting that the person who thought of it is allowed to make rudeness the law.Things are worse than I thought. A sign saying take a number if you don't want your name called would make more sense .They will not summon me like someone calling a child.

a story about two sisters and their dead mother appear in the news recently, the mother die from cancer and the sisters wore a hat with a message about cancer on it, the message use a ribbon to replace part of the F word, the people at the meeting told the sisters to REMOVE THE HATS

[David Weaver]

Ray, I'm having trouble following that story. Why would their hats say F in the first place. was it the F word and then "cancer"?

[John Coloccia]

Ray, I'm having trouble following that story. Why would their hats say F in the first place. was it the F word and then "cancer"?

Ha ha...this is one of those times I followed Ray perfectly well. PM sent :) ROFL.

[David Weaver]

Thanks Ray. John did send me a message telling me what it said. When it comes to words, I definitely lack creativity.

[ray hampton]

Ha ha...this is one of those times I followed Ray perfectly well. PM sent :) ROFL.

thank you John

[ray hampton]

Thanks Ray. John did send me a message telling me what it said. When it comes to words, I definitely lack creativity.

thank you David ,I work better with my hands too, maybe this is why people use 4-letter words sow often , two word phase " replace a thousands , I rather work by myself than talk
A number of people are afflicted with a sickness call TIC"S which mean that you will utter a bad word without meaning to

[David Weaver]

Yes, tourettes. I can imagine that they were ostracized in the past for no good reason.

[Mel Fulks]

David,they allow all that ,and Paturno is gone !? Was it because he wasn't saying much? Never seen a stranger sight than his rigor mortised body being toted off in daylight under plastic too hazy to know for sure which finger he was holding up.Before someone asks what chisel is used for rigor mortising.....I don't know.

[ray hampton]

Yes, tourettes. I can imagine that they were ostracized in the past for no good reason.

I hope that the tourettes victims are not made to suffer by today society but I doubt this, we still got a excess of bullies walking among the free who seem to live to harass others

[Ben Hatcher]

Old people have been complaining about society going down the tubes because of young peoples' actions since the dawn of time.

[Shawn Pixley]

is a fox or a wolf a canine ? a female fox are a vixen , if foxes and wolves are canines then the word dog must be use to refer to the group of canine that will not included foxes or wolves
do the library have a Genera bible [1560 ]
this might be a worthy study, thank you

Foxes, wolves, and dogs are from the Family "Canidae." These are subdivided into "true dogs" (tribe Canini) and "foxes" (tribe Vulpini). However, species is unrelated to sexual identification (names) of animals. Both pigs and bears are refered to as "boars and sows." They are of very different families and are in different orders in scientific classification.

Every responsible mammalogist or breeder I have met referred to the female dog using the "B" word in an matter of fact, non-derogatory way. I wouldn't refer to female humans that way or allow that in my presence.

[ray hampton]

Foxes, wolves, and dogs are from the Family "Canidae." These are subdivided into "true dogs" (tribe Canini) and "foxes" (tribe Vulpini). However, species is unrelated to sexual identification (names) of animals. Both pigs and bears are refered to as "boars and sows." They are of very different families and are in different orders in scientific classification.

Every responsible mammalogist or breeder I have met referred to the female dog using the "B" word in an matter of fact, non-derogatory way. I wouldn't refer to female humans that way or allow that in my presence.

I agree with you and I do not call this type of women happy hookers either because I doubt that they know how to fish

[Shawn Pixley]

I generally agree with the conversation above. We have crass elements today, but we have always had crass elements in society. Fifty years ago, it would not have been out of place for some / many to use the "N" word to refer to African Americans. At least where I live, I could go years without hearing it. (Parantheically, there is an interesting geographic analysis of racial bias as represented in social media sites and craigslist) My point is that there is no universal standard. For that reason alone it can not and should not be legislated.

it seems as if we want to embrace the crasser elements of our society. Witness the "glorification" of rednecked, trash celebrety, and more "base" televison shows / magazines / other media. I think the phenomena is larger than the rudeness of society and language. Maybe we need a "Sputnik moment" for civility.

"Treat all others with respect. Not because he is a gentleman, but because you are"

[ray hampton]

I generally agree with the conversation above. We have crass elements today, but we have always had crass elements in society. Fifty years ago, it would not have been out of place for some / many to use the "N" word to refer to African Americans. At least where I live, I could go years without hearing it. (Parantheically, there is an interesting geographic analysis of racial bias as represented in social media sites and craigslist) My point is that there is no universal standard. For that reason alone it can not and should not be legislated.

it seems as if we want to embrace the crasser elements of our society. Witness the "glorification" of rednecked, trash celebrety, and more "base" televison shows / magazines / other media. I think the phenomena is larger than the rudeness of society and language. Maybe we need a "Sputnik moment" for civility.

"Treat all others with respect. Not because he is a gentleman, but because you are"

there are only two things that I treat gentle and this are explosives and babies so do not call me a gentleman , I would rather be call a redneck or some other name and I happen to know the Spanish word for the color black , I do not remember the name of the movie but the the American redman were call a red negro in the movie and I am afraid that this name-calling are still going on today by the bullies of the nations of this world

[ray hampton]

If you were in a group of people and shout -out loud "SOW, would any of the people know which sow you were thinking about

[Seth Dolcourt]

Seth ,the laws are there .Easy enough to check. I'm trying to be happy anyway.Since you have that picture of Jefferson (or have an amazing resemblance to him)you might find this interesting .Jefferson and a boy of the family were walking and an approaching slave bowed to them .Jefferson bowed in return but the boy did not. After the servant was gone Jefferson corrected the boy by saying ,"Will you allow a negro to be more of a gentleman than you are ?" I think his point was that civility is not a debt to others anymore than a personal ornament desired by the wise.

Mel,

Your cadence sounds like a voice from the Fine Woodworking forum, from time past. Be that you?

Yes, the avatar is Thomas Jefferson, but I don't suppose to be a devotee. I use him like a mathematical variable; he is X.

My tongue is firmly in my cheek, assuredly, pay no mind. For these kinds of posts, my intent is to take a line, and push it towards absurdity. I have wicked visions of a made-for-TV hatchet faced district attorney, attempting to maintain gravitas and professional comportment, whilst saying all manners of filthy words in the recitation of charges. I also wonder how much tax money would be burned in bringing a language vandal to justice.

I was also speaking to another fanciful notion: wouldn't it be funny if the source for a teen's vulgarity came not for TV or movies or music videos or peers, but from the everyday civic records available to citizens?

No, I would not want someone to fountain vulgarities in public, decency is a wonderful thing. But as we move from the comfort of our own mental gated community to interact with the unwashed heathens, there are just some things that are best ignored, rather than engaged. Our constitution does not identify F-bomb exclusions to the right of no prior restraint.

Cheers,

Seth aka hamelech at the FWW forums

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks ,Seth. No,I'm not on any other forums. I hope your explanation of your outlook doesn't mean you think everything I write is serious. THAT SIR WOULD BE INSULTING!!

[Seth Dolcourt]

We have an accord! :) Baffoonery above sincerity.... gonna put that on a t shirt....

[Kevin Bourque]

I can remember going to Phillies games as a kid . My mom would make us kids put on nice clothes. My dad wore a hat and tie. Mom wore a nice dress. Fans were respectful.

5 years ago I went to the Phillies home opener and 6 people in my row were thrown out for being drunk and fighting...in the first inning!!! By the end of the game the security guards had to deal with at least a dozen incidents involving fights, general drunkenness, fans screaming obscenities and throwing stuff at the opposing players, etc. Eagles games are even worse.

Kids in my generation were raised by a stay at home mom, and a dad who got home from work at 5:00. Today's kids are raised by television, social media, and pop culture.

As a civilization we are doomed!!!

[Mike Null]

When there are no rules, regulations or laws Americans, without fail, will sink to the lowest common denominator.

[Dan Hintz]

When there are no rules, regulations or laws Americans, without fail, will sink to the lowest common denominator.

You're saying Americans are somehow different in this regard to every other group of people on the planet how, exactly?

[ray hampton]

When there are no rules, regulations or laws Americans, without fail, will sink to the lowest common denominator.

Is the lowest common denominator a one cent coin or a one dollar bill

[Roger Feeley]

My general take is that people use profanity when they have nothing useful to say. They think it makes the petty comments they do have seem important. This is especially true of stand-up comedy. With some exceptions, the humor of stand-up is inversely proportional to the profane content.

There are exceptions. I've know people who could curl your hear with a string of profanity and it was a truly impressive thing. But these people also kept their powder dry. They generally didn't swear so when they did, it really got your attention.

A good friend of mine was the first budget director in Kansas. He served 29 years under 7 governors. He used to tell the incoming governors that, "You single greatest power is the ability to become appalled. Don't over-use it."

[David Weaver]

Can you (anyone) name the last movie you saw that wasn't intended for children that had no profanity in it? I can, but only one. Napoleon Dynamite. Aside from that, I can't think of any. I know whether or not that's an entertaining movie is a big yes or no thing with folks, but I was entertained the entire time and never noticed the lack of profanity until someone pointed it out to me.

[David Weaver]

Is the lowest common denominator a one cent coin or a one dollar bill

What may be interesting only to me, is that the mathematical definition of lowest common denominator involves a discussion of "vulgar" fractions (fractions with whole numbers in the numerator and denominator) and of those fractions, there are proper and improper fractions.

Certainly in the world of southern manners, one would be offended to find out that there is such a thing as a proper vulgar fraction. Most proper southern folks would consider anything vulgar to always be improper. Mathematics doesn't always comply with manners!

For example, 2/3 is a proper vulgar fraction.

It would seem that the LCD is always a prime number by intuition when we are talking about vulgar fractions, but I don't remember enough from early life to provide any proof (that doesn't seem it would be needed, anyway, if a LCD is composed of primes, then it should be an LCD, right, the smallest of the primes should become the LCD).

So, Ray, the answer to your question would be that if we're talking in vulgarities, the answer to your question would depend on whether we were discussion prices in dollars or cents. :)

[Keith Outten]

When there are no rules, regulations or laws Americans, without fail, will sink to the lowest common denominator.


You're saying Americans are somehow different in this regard to every other group of people on the planet how, exactly?

Geez Dan you should be a newspaper reporter, you twisted Mike's statement around until it seemed newsworthy. There was no reference to any other country or group on the planet in his statement.
.

[ray hampton]

What may be interesting only to me, is that the mathematical definition of lowest common denominator involves a discussion of "vulgar" fractions (fractions with whole numbers in the numerator and denominator) and of those fractions, there are proper and improper fractions.

Certainly in the world of southern manners, one would be offended to find out that there is such a thing as a proper vulgar fraction. Most proper southern folks would consider anything vulgar to always be improper. Mathematics doesn't always comply with manners!

For example, 2/3 is a proper vulgar fraction.

It would seem that the LCD is always a prime number by intuition when we are talking about vulgar fractions, but I don't remember enough from early life to provide any proof (that doesn't seem it would be needed, anyway, if a LCD is composed of primes, then it should be an LCD, right, the smallest of the primes should become the LCD).

So, Ray, the answer to your question would be that if we're talking in vulgarities, the answer to your question would depend on whether we were discussion prices in dollars or cents. :)

southern I am but Proper I am not and I usual give the coins away, how can you use so many words but not say anything ?

[David Weaver]

how can you use so many words but not say anything ?

Oh, my mind swims with many words that don't say anything. Almost any time something is given, I have no problem flipping the switch and running tangent using the same words but an entirely different subject. Maybe i watched too much TV as a child!

(your use of lowest common denominator and the discussion of proper and improper and vulgar things in this thread just made for a perfect fit to switch the train onto the tracks of the lowest common denominator mathematical definition instead of the hijacked definition that describes taking the low road)

[ray hampton]

Oh, my mind swims with many words that don't say anything. Almost any time something is given, I have no problem flipping the switch and running tangent using the same words but an entirely different subject. Maybe i watched too much TV as a child!

(your use of lowest common denominator and the discussion of proper and improper and vulgar things in this thread just made for a perfect fit to switch the train onto the tracks of the lowest common denominator mathematical definition instead of the hijacked definition that describes taking the low road)

anyone whom take low road will face fog or high water or both

[Mike Null]

I've had the good fortune to travel to a number of countries. Civility and good manners are commonplace throughout most of Europe and the middle east. I haven't traveled the Orient but have had numerous business dealings with Chinese, Japanese and Koreans all of whom were exceptionally courteous in business and social settings.

Americans, without fail, are the crudest, rudest people I've encountered. I am not proud of that remark.

[David Weaver]

I have a feeling that it has more to do with who you're dealing with, and less to do with country to country comparisons. When you bring business to someone, they tend to be nicer than the struggling lady at the local grocery store who's got money troubles and a couple of kids who won't quit.

My parents were just in china for 3 weeks, and they had the opposite thing to say (general public there can be rude and pushy, just culturally coarse when you're in public places).

[Dan Hintz]

Geez Dan you should be a newspaper reporter, you twisted Mike's statement around until it seemed newsworthy. There was no reference to any other country or group on the planet in his statement.
.

I'm not sure how I twisted his words. He specifically called out Americans as being able to sink to the LCD. I was simply pointing out that the behavior isn't endemic to just Americans... people as a whole, no matter the location, seem to display such behavior. Sad, but it appears to be true...

[Mike Null]

Dan

Not that it's the same but a simple comparison of the violence in this country versus that in other countries should give you a clue.

[Biff Johnson]

Dan

Not that it's the same but a simple comparison of the violence in this country versus that in other countries should give you a clue.

How so? Considering the types of violence in other countries, i.e. genital mutation, beheadings, honor killings the US seems relatively tame! What specifically are you referring to?

[David Weaver]

Must be a comparison to western or northern europe or japan. That's about the only places in the world that have less violence and fewer murders. Central and s. america, africa, some parts of the middle east, eastern europe and russia are no great place to look if someone wants to make us look bad. What's not described in the statistics is also the fact that it's pretty easy to avoid violence in the US if you stay away from participating in crime. At least if avoidance of the bulk is good enough.

[Pat Barry]

I doubt that anyone has actual facts and data to back up any of the statements on here related to America vs the world and their perception of violence. I'll take America as the place to live, thank you. You can have the rest of the world.

[Mike Null]

Try comparing the US to the civilized world not third world countries.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Sometimes geography can be quite a decider.

I was in London a while back with a friend from the US having dinner when an advertising truck went past with the slogan "Don't dump in the streets" on the side.

Here that refers to not dropping litter or say sweet wrappers. My American friend was astounded until I pointed out what it's UK meaning was.

best wishes

Dave

[ray hampton]

Sometimes geography can be quite a decider.

I was in London a while back with a friend from the US having dinner when an advertising truck went past with the slogan "Don't dump in the streets" on the side.

Here that refers to not dropping litter or say sweet wrappers. My American friend was astounded until I pointed out what it's UK meaning was.

best wishes

Dave

dump in the street mean the same thing to some of the USA citizens as it do to the united kingdom citizens

[Mike Cruz]

Bottom line, Biff... people stopped teaching their kids.

Worse yet, that isn't really true. They are teaching their kids, but all the wrong things:

With kids in the car, they speed; run stop signs; text while driving; talk on the phone while driving; eat while driving. Then they wonder why their kids do it!

I was in Costco today, and a lady with her 5 kids kept going from food sampler kiosk to food sampler kiosk one after another...each kid getting a sample. I honestly think she was feeding them lunch! What does that teach them? Go get free food. It doesn't cost you anything. Not just one or two that you might be interested in, but all of them. You don't have to pay for it, don't worry, someone else will. Before I get on a political rant, I'll stop right there.

[Belinda Barfield]

Interesting thread. Born, reared, and living in the South, I expect and receive respect from most men. I can't recall the last time I opened a door, seriously. I have had men run to get to the door before me so they can open it for me. On the flip side, I open doors for other women, and the elderly. I return shopping carts for harried women with screaming children, and the elderly. I consider that common courtesy.

Regarding profanity, I speak fluent "French", but not in public and not at work, and only when I slam my finger in the kitchen drawer. I manage a shop full of men, and out of respect for me they do not use profanity in my hearing. They all refer to me as Miss Belinda, or Miss B (which I'm fairly certain isn't short for Belinda). Having said all of that, I live in a town that, while still Southern, has changed greatly over the past few years. It is now common place to have shootings and stabbings in broad daylight downtown in the tourist district. There is an element of society here that has no respect for anything or anyone. The F and the MF are said every other word in conversation regardless of who is in earshot. Sometimes I can use the "mama look" and they look shamefaced and turn away. I have though had a different reaction numerous times, and must choose to walk away. When someone says "Who you lookin' at you Cracker female dog?", I believe it best to avoid that confrontation.

Savannah is also a military town, surrounded by military towns. Several years ago I was sitting at the bar at Chili's when a group of freshly home young Rangers came in. Understandably, the did a lot of cussin'. After about ten minutes I walked up to them, told them I wanted to buy them a round, but there was one condition attached. I pointed out that sitting right behind them in a booth were two small boys, who were completely in awe of them, whose mother probably wasn't going to be happy with their expanded vocabulary on the ride home. They apologized to me, to the mom, and all I heard every few minutes for the next hour was, "F.. Sorry, pardon me m'aam."

[ray hampton]

Interesting thread. Born, reared, and living in the South, I expect and receive respect from most men. I can't recall the last time I opened a door, seriously. I have had men run to get to the door before me so they can open it for me. On the flip side, I open doors for other women, and the elderly. I return shopping carts for harried women with screaming children, and the elderly. I consider that common courtesy.

Regarding profanity, I speak fluent "French", but not in public and not at work, and only when I slam my finger in the kitchen drawer. I manage a shop full of men, and out of respect for me they do not use profanity in my hearing. They all refer to me as Miss Belinda, or Miss B (which I'm fairly certain isn't short for Belinda). Having said all of that, I live in a town that, while still Southern, has changed greatly over the past few years. It is now common place to have shootings and stabbings in broad daylight downtown in the tourist district. There is an element of society here that has no respect for anything or anyone. The F and the MF are said every other word in conversation regardless of who is in earshot. Sometimes I can use the "mama look" and they look shamefaced and turn away. I have though had a different reaction numerous times, and must choose to walk away. When someone says "Who you lookin' at you Cracker female dog?", I believe it best to avoid that confrontation.

Savannah is also a military town, surrounded by military towns. Several years ago I was sitting at the bar at Chili's when a group of freshly home young Rangers came in. Understandably, the did a lot of cussin'. After about ten minutes I walked up to them, told them I wanted to buy them a round, but there was one condition attached. I pointed out that sitting right behind them in a booth were two small boys, who were completely in awe of them, whose mother probably wasn't going to be happy with their expanded vocabulary on the ride home. They apologized to me, to the mom, and all I heard every few minutes for the next hour was, "F.. Sorry, pardon me m'aam."


I would like to have seen that scene with the rookies

[Mike Cruz]

I return shopping carts for harried women with screaming children, and the elderly. I consider that common courtesy.


Now, if you'd just return PMs...:rolleyes: