Needing to buy my first CNC router...suggestions

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Hello folks!

I manufacture vacuum chambers out of acrylic. Currently, I am cutting the parts on my tablesaw oversized, then running them through my router table to clean up the edges for solvent welding. I use both 3/8" and 1/2" cast acrylic. Cutting parts and then running 4 edges x 5 pieces per chamber on the router is a bit tedious and time consuming to say the least. I need to up my production and believe a CNC router would do that as well as provide better precision.

I would like to go with a 4x4 router so that I can throw 1/2 sheet of acrylic on the machine and let it run. Unfortunately, I do not have a big budget and really need to keep it at $5k or less. I could go smaller if I need to. I spoke with the owner at Probotix yesterday and am interested in their Fireball Meteor which is not as large as I would like at 25"x50" but it looks like a good machine for the money. I have also looked at the Stinger as well as some others but they are out of my price range at the moment. I ABSOLUTELY can not go over $5k, I just don't have the money and refuse to go into debt!

I have done a lot of reading here and all over the net so I am quite familiar with CNC and how it all works and already know CAD software in various different forms so no learning curve there. I am also very computer literate and can already think in 3d space (I was a builder for 15 years and designed all of the homes I built).

After doing a lot of reading, I am now looking at a complete kit from CNCRouterparts.com. I am very good a building things so it might fit the bill and certainly fits the budget. My issue is, I am way backlogged on the chambers I build and can not devote hundreds of hours to building a machine. Does anyone know approximately how long it takes to build one of their machines? Are their kits made such that it is relatively easy to assemble them with accuracy? Any other things I should consider before taking the plunge to possibly build my own?

If you do not recommend building my own due to time issues, what do you think about the Fireball Meteor?

Do you see that I will have any issues with cutting the parts I need to cut? Most are 5"x5" or thereabouts but always rectangular. I can't sit there and do one part at a time, though. I really need to be able to created an optimized layout and have the machine cut them all out. I am aware that it will need to be done in multiple passes with a clean up pass. I am also aware that I will need to come up with a vacuum hold down of some sort. I have that solved in my head already since I work with vacuum every day!

Anything else I am missing or not thinking of that will make this less efficient time wise than I think it will be? I sell my chambers at cost (includes my labor to cut and build) so this has to increase productivity for it to be worthwhile.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have, including other machines to consider. Again, I need something that is accurate without too much assembly time and tinkering time and need to be at $5k or less.

[William Adams]

I picked up a ShapeOko, a hobby-level CNC kit at the beginning of the year and have now gotten it upgraded to where I want it to be.

Uses Makerslide, so it's a fast build: shapeoko.com/wiki

[Gene Crain]

No matter how much you have read about cnc and your cad experience there will be a learning curve especially with what you want to cut. Don't expect to be in production as soon as you get a machine. Have you considered a used machine. Take a look on the bot, cnc zone, vectric and 3d sign forums for info on cutting acrylic. I bought a used 48x96 pr machine (shopbot) for $3500, it's old but amazingly accurate.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Yes, I have been keeping my eye on Craigslist all over Texas and have not seen anything in my budget. I am not at all opposed to used. I do realize there will be a significant learning curve to get the parts I want but at least I am a little further down the curve due to my CAD experience!

Speaking of CNCZone...I have tried going there but for some reason, their GUI is messed up for me. All I get is a text page with links to threads but they are all in text. I remember going there in the past and if I recall correctly, they were running VBulletin. There is not sign of Vbulletin or any other forum structure for me. Anyone else having the same problem?

[Mike Heidrick]

I built the mechanics of a 4X4 cncrp 48X48 and it was jogging in 9 hours. Base was done and controller was done ahead of time. A gecko G540 will smoke any probotix controller. Ahrens setup is super nice for a DIY. The R&P on X and Y is super fast.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

The R&P on X and Y is super fast.

Please excuse my ignorance but what does the above mean? I haven't quite learned all the language yet! I know x and y, just don't know what R&P is!

[Jerome Stanek]

Rack and Pinion. How good does the edges need to be. If you need a polished edge you will still need to do some hand work. There is a polisher bit that Onsrud makes but it is about $1500.00 so it would be out of your price range

[Rich Fennessey]

Have you planned on what software you will need? If you buy the basic CNC router, expect to pay another 50% for other items such as bits, dust collection, clamps, collets, holddown, practice material, and CAD/CAM software. If you buy used, expect some repair expenses in the near future. You will need some kind of tech support whether it be a forum or a vendor. I'm pretty savvy at mechanics, electrical, and 3D software but it was a bigger learning curve than I expected. Almost all of my spare time in the last year has gone to learning, cutting, and building out my infrastructure for my startup side business.

It sounds like you are pretty busy. If you really are just looking at making a few parts I would just find another CNC person and outsource it. At least start out this way and then figure if the cost is worth it. You won't save money for quite a while, if ever, doing it yourself for just a few parts. You will learn enough from the outsourcing, pricing, and seeing the results to give you a better idea if it is worth doing yourself.

[Frank Trinkle]

One option you don't see much here is CNC-STEP machines with Kress router motors. Not sure if they have the size you want, but German-made, basically turnkey, and solid.

http://www.cnc-step.de/ (It's in English)

[William Adams]

The parts in question sound simple enough to hand-code in G-code. Use NC Corrector to preview / edit.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Have you planned on what software you will need? If you buy the basic CNC router, expect to pay another 50% for other items such as bits, dust collection, clamps, collets, holddown, practice material, and CAD/CAM software. If you buy used, expect some repair expenses in the near future. You will need some kind of tech support whether it be a forum or a vendor. I'm pretty savvy at mechanics, electrical, and 3D software but it was a bigger learning curve than I expected. Almost all of my spare time in the last year has gone to learning, cutting, and building out my infrastructure for my startup side business.

It sounds like you are pretty busy. If you really are just looking at making a few parts I would just find another CNC person and outsource it. At least start out this way and then figure if the cost is worth it. You won't save money for quite a while, if ever, doing it yourself for just a few parts. You will learn enough from the outsourcing, pricing, and seeing the results to give you a better idea if it is worth doing yourself.

I already have a full cabinet shop with most of what you mention except the machine and software. I have a clearvue cyclone system and am already running very high quality end mills in my router table. I need to make a lot more than a few parts, thankfully! I have a current need to run 500 or so parts! I have been outsourcing some of it over the past year and while the quality is fine, I need more control of the timing. I absolutely hate depending on someone else and waiting on their schedule. I also have other uses for it as well.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Rack and Pinion. How good does the edges need to be. If you need a polished edge you will still need to do some hand work. There is a polisher bit that Onsrud makes but it is about $1500.00 so it would be out of your price range

Thanks for the clarification on R&P! The edges need to be smooth and square in all directions. They do not need to be polished but I can't have ridges or saw blade marks like i get off the saw currently. I am currently getting good results with a Southeast Tools o flute spiral in my router table, it is just to time consuming.

[bobby milam]

You have a very specific budget so, I'd go slow and research everything. Know what kind of software they use, do they come with the design software included in the price, the warranty, research reviews, what speeds will they cut at, are you going to be confined to a palm router or will it handle a full sized router or spindle, how sturdy is the frame, what materials are used, what components, can you upgrade it later? Yes, $5000 is cheap for a CNC but that doesn't mean it is not a big hit to your pocket book.

I knew nothing about CNC routers and jumped in with a shark. It was around $3500 but did come with vcarve pro, then I bought a probe, 3D cut software, dust boot, touch plate, router, bits, clamps, etc. and I was getting close to that $5000 mark. It is good for what it is, I'm just a hobbyist but I'm already outgrowing it (atleast in my mind). The table isn't large enough..I want a 4X8. It isn't rigid enough, it is too slow, etc. I wish that I had known then what I know now and I would have waited until I could buy the Stinger. Now, I am going to eventually build my own 4X8 or catch a shopbot or stinger used. They have a section at the shopbot site for used ones but they go fast.

I don't know anything about the fireball but you aren't getting any positive responses from their users here so that would make me leery of them. There is so much that you can do with a cnc other than what you are looking to buy one for, don't get short sighted and get one that will just get the job done for you because you will probably find more uses.

Good luck.

[Bruce Page]

I bought a Camaster Stinger last January. Yes, they cost more than the average entry level CNC but they are built like a tank and will run all day, everyday. They have great customer service and a forum with members that will walk you through any problems or questions you might have.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Thanks for the replies thus far everyone! I am now leaning heavily towards a CNC Router Parts CRP4848. I have all the kits in my cart and spoke to them today to get a quote on the software. I just need to get up the courage to pull the trigger! Lots of money to spend for sure!

[Bruce Robbins]

Hey Curtis - Welcome to the CNC world. Not sure I can give you good advice on which machine, but you are right on when you say you will need to come up with a good vacuum hold down. For me, the trickiest part of CNC work is figuring out how to hold the pieces and if you don't want any or only minimal post processing make sure you have that worked out. When there is nothing supporting the piece for the last portion of the cuts, it can be challenging to keep it from moving. Personally I would build and test the vacuum table before pulling the trigger. Good luck.

[bobby milam]

Yes, lots of money. I am over 5k in mine right now and already looking for money to go bigger and better. There is just so much that a cnc can do, I would never give mine up.

If you get this one I hope you post the setup on it. I looked it up and am interested in trying one of their kits

[Gene Crain]

you can use tabs or a downshear bit to stop part movement. I would think long and hard about a 4x8 platform...I bet within 3 months you will wish you went bigger...

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Thanks again for the feedback, folks! I will be placing my order today or tomorrow for a CRP4848! I don't think I will have a need for a 4x8 since I work almost exclusively with acrylic and handing a 4x8 sheet of 1/2" is a bear by yourself! My supplier cuts them in half for me at no charge. I figure if I do ever decide I want or need a 4x8, I will sell this one and move up!

[Jerome Stanek]

Thanks again for the feedback, folks! I will be placing my order today or tomorrow for a CRP4848! I don't think I will have a need for a 4x8 since I work almost exclusively with acrylic and handing a 4x8 sheet of 1/2" is a bear by yourself! My supplier cuts them in half for me at no charge. I figure if I do ever decide I want or need a 4x8, I will sell this one and move up!

For acrylic you will want a real stiff z axis. I cut 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch acrylic and it can be a real pain when the bit starts to chatter.

[Mark Smith61]

Curtis, have you considered a laser instead of a CNC? You mentioned the final part size is 5" x5" so even a small laser would work. I have a Hurricane 60 watt 16" x 20" laser and I have cut up to 3/8" acrylic with it. It will cut 1/2" but I haven't tried it yet. Makes perfect straight lines that are ready for gluing right out of the laser. I currently buy full size acrylic sheets and then rough cut them with my saber saw to fit in the laser. $5k is a little low for a brand new machine like the one I have, but you may find a used smaller machine in that size or you can import a machine directly from China and maybe get something that would work for the $5k range. I have a CNC and the Laser and I can tell you the laser is way easier to use than the CNC and is a lot faster. And you don't have to worry about clamping the material down or vacuum pumps. You just set it on the work surface and press start. The laser never touches it so it doesn't move.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have a Shopbot that I cut acrylic with you may be able to find a used one on the shopbot forum. You could post on there to see one in action and also loooking for a used tool