Toggle bolt alternative for rigid foam insulated walls?

[Michael Dunn]

I came across a situation where I intended to use toggle bolts to fasten some flaring shelves to a wall. I knew there were steel studs in the walls. However, I didn't realize until it was too late that the wall had rigid foam insulation. This prevents the toggle bolt from springing open and doing its job.

My wife's uncle told me there's a product for this situation. He couldn't recalls the name. He said its a stainless steel cylinder and you shoot epoxy into it and the drive the fastener into the epoxy.

Does anyone know what this product is? Or if this is even a valid way to fasten something to a wall like this.

I used steel stud screws, but those are useless for securing something that you intend to have some weight on.

Any thoughts?

[Lee Schierer]

I don't know about your stainless sleeve and epoxy anchor; however, I have an idea that might let you use you toggle bolts. Most foam insulation dissolves in lacquer thinner. Spray a small amount of lacquer thinner into the back of your hole and see if it dissolves enough foam to let you set your toggle bolt. CAUTION: A small baby food jar of half full of lacquer thinner will dissolve an entire large styrofoam ice chest.

You might also want to try the Snap Toggle Toggle Bolts (http://store.videomountstore.com/snhehowaan.html)

[Michael Dunn]

Interesting, yet dangerous thought on the laquer thinner...

I think that snap toggle would still suffer from the rigid insulation being in the way. No?

[Richard Wolf]

Maybe these will work. They are strong and easy to use. http://ghostud.com/

[Jim Finn]

When I worked construction we secured many things to sheet rock walls and what we used were the screw-in anchors sold at Lowes. Some are rated at 75 LBS. The are quick and easy to use and make a neater job than toggle bolts do. We stopped using toggle bolts and went to them about 1988 I think. They will work for you on those walls.

[Roger Rayburn]

I've had very good luck with these. http://www.homedepot.com/p/E-Z-Ancor-Twist-N-Lock-50-Drywall-Anchors-with-Screws-25-Pack-25200/100133106#.UbLFwh7nbIU They aren't expensive and they are available in different weigh ratings. Like casters, the weight ratings are additive. There is also a version that is metal, and I like them a lot, too. You might also consider a simple "molly anchor". That's the kind that you poke in to the wall and then run a screw into it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_(fastener), The screw causes the bolt to expand behind the wall by sucking it back against the inside of the wall. Then you remove the screw and use it to mount your object to the bolt in the wall. I like them unless I have to remove them. Then it is a really big hole.

[Michael Dunn]

I've had very good luck with these. http://www.homedepot.com/p/E-Z-Ancor-Twist-N-Lock-50-Drywall-Anchors-with-Screws-25-Pack-25200/100133106#.UbLFwh7nbIU They aren't expensive and they are available in different weigh ratings. Like casters, the weight ratings are additive. There is also a version that is metal, and I like them a lot, too. You might also consider a simple "molly anchor". That's the kind that you poke in to the wall and then run a screw into it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_(fastener), The screw causes the bolt to expand behind the wall by sucking it back against the inside of the wall. Then you remove the screw and use it to mount your object to the bolt in the wall. I like them unless I have to remove them. Then it is a really big hole.

I ended up using several of those as well. This was the only alternative I could find at the local Ace. I wasn't very satisfied with the end result of those either. The other, non insulated walls of the space I was installing shelves in, used toggle bolts and they were extremely sturdy. Not so with the rigid foam insulated wall using a couple toggle bolts

[phil harold]

Metal studs?

You would want blocking installed first where you are going to hang things

screw in anchors are only as strong as the sheetrock they do work but they do pull out I prefer the metal screw in anchors over the plastic ones
It does help to pre-drill the pilot hole so they go where you want them

[Michael Dunn]

How can I block it if the wall is already built? Am I misunderstanding you?

[phil harold]

How can I block it if the wall is already built?
That;s the crux of the biscuit,
It is to late for a strong solution.

[Jamie Buxton]

That;s the crux of the biscuit,
It is to late for a strong solution.

For kitchen uppers, it is easy to cut out a section of sheetrock, do the proper blocking on the steel studs, then put the sheetrock back in place. You can do a crude job of putting the rock back in place, because you're going to cover it up with the cabinets. This might or might not be feasible for the OP's task -- I dunno what "flaring shelves" are.

[Matt Day]

I don't know what flaring shelves are either, but could you just zip in a few metal screws to the studs? A big rare earth magnet is a great way to locate the studsvb

[phil harold]

For kitchen uppers, it is easy to cut out a section of sheetrock, do the proper blocking on the steel studs, then put the sheetrock back in place. You can do a crude job of putting the rock back in place, because you're going to cover it up with the cabinets. This might or might not be feasible for the OP's task -- I dunno what "flaring shelves" are.
This is the proper fix but so many are unwilling to do it



screwing into the stud it a viable option for light loads but easy to strip out on 25 and 22 gauge studs

[Jamie Buxton]

I don't know what flaring shelves are either, but could you just zip in a few metal screws to the studs? A big rare earth magnet is a great way to locate the studsvb


Metal studs are made in several gauges of steel, and in different cross-sections too. The lightest-weight ones are made of metal that is about as thick as a beer can, so it is easy to pull screws through it. On top of that, the cross section is just the front, one side, and the back. If you happen to put a screw into the front on the edge farthest from the side that does exist, any pull on the screw causes the stud's cross-section to open up. The front bends so that it is no longer parallel to the back. And the amount of bending depends on how heavily you load it. So if you mount kitchen uppers by tightening the screws when there's nothing in the cabinets, then load the cabinets with dishware, the wall bulges and the cabinet is no longer sucked tight against the wall. That makes for callbacks. To fix these issues, steel-stud kitchens should be built with heavier-gauge studs, or blocking between the studs. Where folks get into trouble is when they attempt to hang heavy loads on lightweight studs -- TVs, for instance.

[Michael Dunn]

Here's another question... I have to install a flat panel LCD TV at this same place. I know this particular wall does not have any insulation. I can easily use toggle bolts to fasten the mount to the wall. I'm so used to fastening objects to walls into wooden studs. You know when you hit the stud and it feels super secure. Not so with steel studs. I would not trust even a 32" LCD TV mounted only into steel studs. Let alone a 46".

So do you guys think that 4 or 6 toggle bolts would be secure enough to hold a 46" LCD TV?

[Phil Thien]

Newer TV's don't weigh much. If I was getting 4 to 6 toggles into the steel stud for a newer TV, I'd be perfectly happy w/ that.

[Jim Matthews]

If you're mounting a TV more than 40 " above the floor, somebody will try to pull it down.

If you have kids in the house, or will have kids in the house - it's going to happen.
Get serious about the fixture now, for peace of mind later.

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/omnimount-omnilite-ol200ft-wall-mount-for-flat-panel-display-42-to-70/215782257.html?listingId=85305960

[Michael Dunn]

If you're mounting a TV more than 40 " above the floor, somebody will try to pull it down.

If you have kids in the house, or will have kids in the house - it's going to happen.
Get serious about the fixture now, for peace of mind later.

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/omnimount-omnilite-ol200ft-wall-mount-for-flat-panel-display-42-to-70/215782257.html?listingId=85305960

This is for a place of business. It will be mounted at least 7'-8' from the floor. Not even I will be able to reach this without a ladder and I'm 6'6". I'll still check out the link since I do want the most secure option anyway.