Resale value of Chinese laser cutting machines

[Kay Bengtson]

I am in the process of looking for a replacement laser for my aging ULS 25ER. It's been a super working machine for three years now but I know that time will eventually force me to buy a replacement. So, I am looking at all low cost possibles including the Chinese laser option. One thing that I noticed here is that few people mention what one of these used imported units is worth. There is a 60 W YH-G9060 unit locally for sale that was imported three years ago but never used. It needs to be wired for US 220 Volt connection and the fellow is asking $6000. It occurred to me that I have no way of evaluating what this unit is really worth. Will it even work after sitting idle for three years? What happens if someone buys it and it needs repair? What is the realistic lifetime of one of these older units? Are they obsolete faster than the more mainstream types like ULS and Epilog? Thoughts?

Kay

[Gary Hair]

I would be leary of any used machine, especially a Chinese manufactured one. The Chinese lasers all use glass tubes and I'm betting after three years it is dead. A metal tube would probably be either dead or have reduced power after that much time of non-use as well, but it would have a better chance of working. You have probably read about some issues with support, you'll probably get none buying a three year old used laser... As for value, look at the prices for a new one and compare - I wouldn't spend more than about 1/4 to 1/3 of new price for used - is that a $12k - $18k laser? I doubt it. You could probably replace it for not much more than they are asking. Just my .02

Gary

[Rodne Gold]

Way too pricey and the better chinese companys have improved QC , motherboards etc in the last 3 years..I wouldn't pay more than $2k..and even then , without seeing it work , most likely pass. Cost of a brand new 600x900 80w machine FOB from china is $3.5k or so .. with all the extras..add $700-1000 for shipping , duties , forwarding etc..
I would not expect to get very much for my chinese machines after 3-5 years , maybe 30-40% of what I paid..but then again , I couldn't care as the money they have made me in that time more than pays for themselves many times over. I would just buy myself a nice new and improved model when my machines are no longer able to work. Lasers are tools and not investments..
Taking a 60% loss or even dumping a 5 yr old laser at $5k is not that painful..having to basically mothball (havent the heart to dump them) 2 of my mainstream $20 000 explorers after 7 years cos of dead tubes and other issues is a lot more painful...

[Kay Bengtson]

Thanks, Gary. I did manage to find the manufacturer of this model and it costs $5000 new FOB I think I'll pass. I understand the problems with used lasers too. I got lucky in that mine was refurbished but the seller couldn't make it cut the way he wanted because the lens housing was mislabeled so he never could get it focused correctly. I also had some replacements of my own such as the Testra Controller which was a mixed success. It certainly cuts my parts in half the time but the support from the company is non existent.

It's hard to know which direction to turn for a replacement. There is no way for me to justify a new ULS or Epilog.

Thanks Rodney, I figured that they could be considered as consumables. Might still be an option.

Kay

[George Carlson]

My Redsail M900, which is the same size and power as your machine cots about $5K delivered to my door. So $6K may be OK if it is a really good condition and you want to avoid the importing hassle. It may very well need a new tube, because the tubes have limited shelf life and last longer when operated regularly. (this is true of many vacuum tubes and lasers) That being said, you should be able to ghet the price down a bit.
One really nice thing about the Chinese machines is that parts are very easy to get, and inexpensive. Stepper motors, drivers, tubes, power supplies, and even the controllers and items that are commonly available. For instance, my machine had a Leetro 6515 controller, which is very common. I swapped it out with a controller made by LightObject because the new controller did not require a software dongle and had an Ethernet interface. If I have a part fail in the machine, I can order a replacement from one of several vendors. Most motors, drivers and other parts are available from US vendors. Even if it did have to come from China, but I'd be willing to bet that if a motor went out and I had to have it shipped on two day express air from China, it would still be less than half the cost of a motor from a domestic laser manufacturer.

[Clark Pace]

I will be writing my personal experience soon on buying a laser from china. I had 2 ULS laser for about 5 years. I just received my x700 from redsail, and so far I'm impressed. There are a few querks, but the laser etching quality is very good. Cutting power also matches or exceeds my 35 watt ULS laser. My china laser is a 50 watt. I believe it more powerful at cutting, but I have not pushed the laser too hard yet. Total cost from china to my house $3300.00 Table cutting size 29" x 19". Message me if you have any more questions.

[Lucy Lee]

Hi Kay,
We will not suggest for a three-years-old laser machine , ,all of them are out of warranty ,especially the laser tube , already dead . this will cause many problems.
Try a new one from China, + door to door ,price is almost same, and quality will be better.

Best Regards



Thanks, Gary. I did manage to find the manufacturer of this model and it costs $5000 new FOB I think I'll pass. I understand the problems with used lasers too. I got lucky in that mine was refurbished but the seller couldn't make it cut the way he wanted because the lens housing was mislabeled so he never could get it focused correctly. I also had some replacements of my own such as the Testra Controller which was a mixed success. It certainly cuts my parts in half the time but the support from the company is non existent.

It's hard to know which direction to turn for a replacement. There is no way for me to justify a new ULS or Epilog.

Thanks Rodney, I figured that they could be considered as consumables. Might still be an option.

Kay

[Dan Hintz]

I wouldn't pay more than $3k, and I'd really be much happier at sub-$2k.

[Mike Null]

I wouldn't be happy at any price. It just isn't worth the aggravation.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I'd say Chinese lasers drop about 30-40% of their value the day you buy them. Every year they probably drop an additional 5-15%.

[Kay Bengtson]

Thanks all for these valuable insights. I'm passing on the used laser and will continue to look for alternatives. Actually, I am so used to the ULS way of doing things that I would really prefer to get a used one of them or even have another go round with getting the laser tube recharged again.

Kay

[George M. Perzel]

Hi All;
Gee, Ross- where did you pull the 30-40% figure from? Do you have a Chinese laser?
My twin 80 watt Shenhui is two years old and I paid $9K for it , including shipping and two spare tubes.
I was offered $10k for the package last week (initial tubes are still OK) but passed as the machine suits me fine.
After viewing another post where someone took an RF laser case apart (scary), I am most pleased with the simplicity of the Shenhui and the ability of common folk to troubleshoot and change parts easily and economically. In addition, I am becoming more and more enamored with the Laserwork software and the ability to change a multitude of settings which are not available in mainstream units.
To each his (or her) own, I will never again pay 3 to 4 times the price for a mainstream machine and be a captive customer for spare parts, lenses, and excessive tube replenishment pricing.
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

[Scott Shepherd]

I am becoming more and more enamored with the Laserwork software and the ability to change a multitude of settings which are not available in mainstream units.


Care to share some examples of what it will do others won't?

[Gary Hair]

Gee, Ross- where did you pull the 30-40% figure from?

Virtually anything you buy loses value as soon as you buy it, equipment does for sure.


My twin 80 watt Shenhui is two years old and I paid $9K for it , including shipping and two spare tubes.
I was offered $10k for the package last week (initial tubes are still OK) but passed

George - you are too good of a businessman to have lost out on $1,000 profit on the sale of a used piece of equipment - I'm surprised you didn't tell them that you would have it ready for them in 5-6 weeks and immediately order your replacement...

[Ross Moshinsky]

Hi All;
Gee, Ross- where did you pull the 30-40% figure from? Do you have a Chinese laser?
My twin 80 watt Shenhui is two years old and I paid $9K for it , including shipping and two spare tubes.
I was offered $10k for the package last week (initial tubes are still OK) but passed as the machine suits me fine.
After viewing another post where someone took an RF laser case apart (scary), I am most pleased with the simplicity of the Shenhui and the ability of common folk to troubleshoot and change parts easily and economically. In addition, I am becoming more and more enamored with the Laserwork software and the ability to change a multitude of settings which are not available in mainstream units.
To each his (or her) own, I will never again pay 3 to 4 times the price for a mainstream machine and be a captive customer for spare parts, lenses, and excessive tube replenishment pricing.
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

Pretty easy to explain to depreciation. Chinese machines are an unknown quantity made with parts that are notorious for not lasting all that long. You have no local customer support and no service people to help you evaluate/fix the machine.

How come Kia and Hyundai cars 5-10 years ago depreciated much faster than Hondas and Toyotas? How come a Bosch drill doesn't depreciate the same way as a Chicago Electric drill?

As for the person offering you 10k, I don't know what to say except they offered you too much money.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi All;
Gary-The guy wanted the machine the next week for a very large current project. He originally contacted me to do the entire job for him-would have been about a $55K job and tied up my machine and me fulltime for about five weeks. This is high season for my normal business and existing customers would not have been happy. More importantly, I am retired and run my business to do the things I want to do-and those do not include high volume production type jobs even if they are highly profitable. When you are 72 years old, you get to choose what your priorities are and where you spend your time.

Ross- Sure, almost all equipment depreciates, but you still didn't explain where you came up with the 30-40% figure on day1? Do you have any personal experience with Chinese lasers or are your statements based on perceptions or just plain old prejudice? Your analogies are meaningless and without factual substance-my Hyundai Genesis has depreciated far less (17%) than my Ford F250 pickup (23%) and both are the same model year and have about the same mileage and condition. Based on actual use and maintenance history, I'd buy another Hyundai in a heartbeat but not so sure on the Ford.

I concede that some Chinese parts are inferior to similar mainstream components but, then again, they are also much less expensive. I spent $40 with Shenhui to replace a $450 (mainstream cost) on my mainstream laser and its still working fine after two years. A refurbed 60 watt tube on my Mercury cost $4500 with a six month warranty. I can buy EIGHT (8) 80 watt tubes , including shipping, for the same amount and have a higher level of confidence in long term sustainabilty.
Chinese machines are very modular in design and fairly easy to troubleshoot and upgrade.

Ross,I am not sure where you live but you are very lucky to have a local technician available in your area to provide service-not many of us are that fortunate and must rely on telephone support for our mainstream units-often at hourly charged rates. I have had outstanding support from Shenhui via email, fax, and Skype. the 12 hour time difference and Chinglish are a bit of a problem sometimes but have had every issue resolved or question answered with one business day-at no charge!

As for your final statement, you know nothing about my machine, its capabilities, or the conditions of the $10K offer yet you say too much money was offered.?


Scott;
Laserworks is mixed bag-many machine parameters can be adjusted and fine tuned but can also screw up the machine. It takes some time experimenting to understand what some things are and what they do (unilateral scanning, optimized scan, Intagilo overstriking, etc.???). It is not for everyone and Rodne and I have talked about rewriting the Laserwork manual in the Queen's english but its a big job. Anyway, the ability to have two independantly adjustable laser heads and tubes doubles my production ability and allows me to engrave/cut two different materials at the same time. The job input is the same, of course, for both but min/max power and backlash can be adjusted to suit the job. I don't know of any two tube mainstream laser out there, but there may be.
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

[Ross Moshinsky]

We live and work in a market economy. The value of a used gasoline generator varies drastically 10 weeks before the storm, the day before the storm and 7 days after the storm. The same with your laser. The guy had a job that needed to be done and he was willing to pay you a premium in order to achieve that goal. With a market awash with new cheap Chinese lasers, the price of a used machine will be determined by the market. You are correct in that the depreciation will be established not by an arbitrary number but by the circumstances at the time of the possible sale. However, I do not appreciate your aggressive tone. Your opinion is always appreciated in a forum setting and so is mine even if you don't agree.

[George M. Perzel]

Hey Ross;
Sorry- I made the incorrect assumption that your original statements were based on facts, not unsubstantiated perceptions.
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

[Ross Moshinsky]

apology accepted

[daniel coyle]

Hmmm. Kay, I think I ended up buying this machine. After losing my new laser to a fire I thought it was a good opportunity and, while I am not impulsive, I did not feel like I was in a position to wait 5 weeks for a replacement or take several weeks to do a lot of research. I got it for 4K. The tube does indeed seem likely that it is done. It has a crack in the end where water can leak out. Other than that it was a small hassle to hook up for 220 and I still have to figure out how to hook up the accessories as they are all on chinese 220 plugs as well. I think you were given good advice. While I do think this machine can be made useful and it is, seemingly, mostly good it will be harder to upkeep without a sales/service relationship with Laserworld and the modifications it seems to need. In hindsight I would say I paid at least 1K too much for it. I would feel pretty good right now if I had paid 2.5.

[Kay Bengtson]

Hmmm. Kay, I think I ended up buying this machine. After losing my new laser to a fire I thought it was a good opportunity and, while I am not impulsive, I did not feel like I was in a position to wait 5 weeks for a replacement or take several weeks to do a lot of research. I got it for 4K. The tube does indeed seem likely that it is done. It has a crack in the end where water can leak out. Other than that it was a small hassle to hook up for 220 and I still have to figure out how to hook up the accessories as they are all on chinese 220 plugs as well. I think you were given good advice. While I do think this machine can be made useful and it is, seemingly, mostly good it will be harder to upkeep without a sales/service relationship with Laserworld and the modifications it seems to need. In hindsight I would say I paid at least 1K too much for it. I would feel pretty good right now if I had paid 2.5.

I noticed the issues that you have described but had no idea that it was the same machine. I think it must be. I don't have access to much of my old electronics gear as much of my old shop had to go when we moved up to Portland from California so doing a lot of the kind of work you describe would be doubly expensive for me. For what it's worth, I did come across a company selling Chinese machines but they are located in California. Morn Tech. They may be able to supply parts for your system. From what I could tell, unlike Full Spectrum Lasers, they seem to be really good at customer service and offer much higher value for the money. MornTechUSA dot com

We decided to wait until the ULS really goes belly up before buying another. Probably will recharge the tube one more time too.

Best of luck with your repairs.

Kay