Veritas Iron Edge-Trimming Plane Vs Skew Rabbet Vs Jack Rabbet Vs Shooting Plane...

[Mike Holbrook]

I am wondering how much overlap there is in the work these planes are typically used for? There are some obvious differences in size, weight, nickers, skewed blades....still

I am especially interested in good square edges for glue ups. I know shooting boards are popular but Edge, Shooting planes...tend to obfuscate the best method for obtaining reliable edges whether they are just straight, tongue & grove, rabbeted.....I am wondering if my Festool plunge saw might even make a "competitive" edge? Now that I have a planer, I imagine individual pieces that are not too thick can be worked there, but will I frequently need to improve on planer, Festool, bandsaw edges with a hand plane....?

Maybe certain edges would benefit from the use of multiple planing steps: shoot/edge plane the edge then make a tongue & groove or rabbet with my LV Plow Plane?

[Chris Griggs]

I am especially interested in good square edges for glue ups.?

Mike, do you have a jointer plane? You made a Steve Knight jointer didn't you? That's really what will work best for this. Doesn't get any easier than match planing two boards at the same time,as it removes the need for perfectly square. "Spring" the joint a little by making it ever so slightly concave and you making the clamping easier as well.

Of course, by all means go buy yourself another plane anyway, just because new toys are fun.

[Frank Drew]

I am especially interested in good square edges for glue ups.

Maybe certain edges would benefit from the use of multiple planing steps: shoot/edge plane the edge then make a tongue & groove or rabbet with my LV Plow Plane?

Mike, I think in general simple square edges are best for panel glue ups, and certainly easier to do than t & g or lap joints. The latter I'd reserve for non-glued joints, like boards for cabinet backs, shed doors, etc.

[Jim Koepke]

I have a Stanley edge trimming plane and it sees very little use.

My shooting plane is the LN #62 and it sees a lot of use.

Of my various rebate, planes many see use. Depending on what is being done my Record 778 does a lot of work. My Stanley #45 sees some. My Stanley #90 skewed rebate sees some and then it is on to the shoulder planes.

For edge joining boards a #7 or #8 works fine for the longer pieces and a #5, #5-1/2 or a #6 for smaller work.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Like chris says, match plane the edges with a jointer. Save shooting board stuff for small parts that are too hard to mark and plane to the mark.

If you're gluing together big panels, it's a lot easier to just put the panel together, mark it for size after it's glued up and plane the end grain with a smoother or jointer. Doesn't have to be anything special, just something sharp.

The rabbet jack planes, specialized shooting planes, etc are gentlemen's tools when it comes to furniture sized stuff. you really only need a basic bench plane that is clean and tight enough to keep its set, and make it sharp.

the skew rabbet plane is a great plane to make rabbets. I wouldn't use it for much else, and most folks might not love sharpening a skew iron, which is something MUCH more easily ground and honed by hand than it is buying a contraption and fooling around with it. If you had a really heavy use rabbet plane, you might like a nice vintage plane with a straight iron in it. The lv skew rabbet planes are definitely much smoother, tighter and more accurate than the vintage rabbet planes, though.

I never found any favor for the various edge trimming planes. You'll develop better accuracy just jointing by hand and examining your results. I could never get mine to be as square on 4/4 finished wood as freehand jointing. Presume they might find more favor in people building small stuff where narrow boards are used, but those things can have their edges struck/shot just by putting them on a platform on your bench and laying a square plane on its side.

If your festool rail is straight, like really good and straight, and the saw is adjusted properly on the rail, you should get good straight square cuts with it and need to do little or nothing to glue. Only issue I've ever had with a track saw is if you push the length of the cut vs. the length of the rail, the ends can be a little wonky.

[Jim Koepke]

I never found any favor for the various edge trimming planes.

For small work they are useable. For long work, it seems if their is the slightest flaw on the face of the piece it takes the small #95 to a new angle.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

Well as I often seem to do I probably combined too many subjects in one post. The information supplied is very helpful though and is helping me get some perspective on these planes. Yes Chris, I have four planes I made from the last of Steve Knights inventory of parts: 26" Jointer, 15.5" Jack, two 7.5" Smoothers (one is high angle). I also have LV: LA Jack, original Block, Shoulder, Router, Plow planes. I think I have what I need to get started but I was a little concerned about edges for good glue ups.

I am about to get started on my Roubo bench top. A good friend of mine, who is more of a power tool guy, has been scaring me with horror stories of how hard it will be to get all the pieces for the top glued up and and then dimensioned. My buddy finally talked me into a planer. I may be making cabinets during Roubo and saw bench projects as the wife is anxious for new cabinets at our home based business and I need shop cabinets. So in addition to gluing up & leveling bench tops and bases I am facing drawer and door construction as well. I will probably make an adjustable large work surface using an Adjust A Bench base so I will have a place to work on my Roubo, saw bench and cabinets. Once I finish the Roubo the Adjust A Bench will serve as a general work and support devise.

If I understand the comments on this thread my long jointer should be the answer to the glue edges after I rip those 8' 8/4 Beech boards for the bench top with my band saw? I should probably mention that the lumber I have has both sides planed and one good edge. I am still wondering if the LV Plow & Router planes are a complete solution to grooves for drawer bottoms and T&G's/rabbets for door frames? I would like to use hand tools for drawer & door joinery. My buddy isn't convincing me to use machines for this work as he is missing the tip of a finger courtesy of his router table.

[Andrae Covington]

Like chris says, match plane the edges with a jointer. Save shooting board stuff for small parts that are too hard to mark and plane to the mark.

If you're gluing together big panels, it's a lot easier to just put the panel together, mark it for size after it's glued up and plane the end grain with a smoother or jointer. Doesn't have to be anything special, just something sharp.

I made a shooting board and use it with my LV low-angle smooth plane (the one with machined sides so it can be used for this purpose). It's great for shooting small stuff, and otherwise is my regular smoother. Two tools in one... not that there's anything wrong with buying more tools.;) But panel glue-ups are much too large for the shooting board. So I clamp them in the leg vises with a scrap piece at the far end to take the spelching, and use my jointer plane.


I never found any favor for the various edge trimming planes. You'll develop better accuracy just jointing by hand and examining your results. I could never get mine to be as square on 4/4 finished wood as freehand jointing.

I ordered the LV jointer plane with the optional fence. The fence turns it into a giant edge trimming plane (although not a skewed blade). I don't use it very often, but if set up properly (takes some fussing), it will produce square edges. But as David said, you're better off practicing freehand and checking with a square. I find that I tend to lean to one side, so I'm still working on that, but I stop and check often enough to correct the error. It is important to make sure the blade is square to the sole as well. I use the fence sometimes because I have it. If I didn't have it, I wouldn't miss it. I feel the same way about the edge trimming planes; if you want one, get one, but you don't need it.


the skew rabbet plane is a great plane to make rabbets. I wouldn't use it for much else, and most folks might not love sharpening a skew iron, which is something MUCH more easily ground and honed by hand than it is buying a contraption and fooling around with it. If you had a really heavy use rabbet plane, you might like a nice vintage plane with a straight iron in it. The lv skew rabbet planes are definitely much smoother, tighter and more accurate than the vintage rabbet planes, though.

The LV skew rabbet is a recent toy in my shop. I haven't actually made any rabbets with it yet, but I used it to bevel some tabletops (sort of like raised panels). The skewed blade definitely helps with cross-grain work.


If your festool rail is straight, like really good and straight, and the saw is adjusted properly on the rail, you should get good straight square cuts with it and need to do little or nothing to glue. Only issue I've ever had with a track saw is if you push the length of the cut vs. the length of the rail, the ends can be a little wonky.

I have a circular saw with a guide rail that I use for long rips. It usually makes pretty straight edges, but I always touch up with the jointer plane just to make sure.

[David Weaver]

Thickness planer is a nice thing to have. If you have out of true faces on your boards, for practical purposes on something as large as a bench, joint one face of the board and then use the thickness planer.

I've never used a T&G planer on end grain. I think you might want to go M&T on doors if you're going to do the work by hand. Maybe haunched if the rails are narrow. The plow plane will do grooves nicely of any type in terms of small to medium furniture size and as much as I like to go cheap on tools sometimes, the LV plow is the nicest small plow plane I have ever used. it's point and shoot, really a super little plane that does exactly what you expect it to do every single time (some of the #50s, etc do funky things with thin irons, etc...btdt, bought the LV).

[David Weaver]

I have a circular saw with a guide rail that I use for long rips. It usually makes pretty straight edges, but I always touch up with the jointer plane just to make sure.

I have to admit that I don't know anything about guide rails outside of makita's festool copy. The two makita rails I have (I don't have a long rail, just two short ones) make a cut so true I can't improve it by planing - as long as the saw is adjusted to ride tightly on the rail (which is literally dead nuts straight against a starrett 48" straight edge, as are the edges produced). I guard their straightness like a dog (i.e., if they are leaning against a wall in the basement, I chew at my wife if anything bulky is placed near them).

I usually just run a smoother over the edges to remove saw swirls, but I don't often use the saw on anything but plywood. It's nice, though.

[Curt Putnam]

For edge gluing, the easiest way to get a true edge is to use the LV jointer with its fence. Unless I'm not understanding something, most Roubo-ish benches are put together by face gluing the lams. Getting a true face ready for glue up is a different ball game from edges. Here, a power planer is pretty much the cat's meow. Real bragging rights go to those who hand prep all their stock and actually get true faces. Before we go too much further, might be good to clarify exactly what you will be doing.

[Brian Ashton]

I am wondering how much overlap there is in the work these planes are typically used for? There are some obvious differences in size, weight, nickers, skewed blades....still

I am especially interested in good square edges for glue ups. I know shooting boards are popular but Edge, Shooting planes...tend to obfuscate the best method for obtaining reliable edges whether they are just straight, tongue & grove, rabbeted.....I am wondering if my Festool plunge saw might even make a "competitive" edge? Now that I have a planer, I imagine individual pieces that are not too thick can be worked there, but will I frequently need to improve on planer, Festool, bandsaw edges with a hand plane....?

Maybe certain edges would benefit from the use of multiple planing steps: shoot/edge plane the edge then make a tongue & groove or rabbet with my LV Plow Plane?
Easiest thing to do is buy all of them. That's what I did and it solves any problems with worrying about what will do what...

[Mike Holbrook]

More specifics Curt? I have dried 8+' European Beech 8/4 boards from 8-10" wide. The boards are planed on both sides and have one jointed edge, from the lumber provider. I plan to rip the 8/4 boards into 3-4" wide pieces to produce a top 3-4" thick. So I guess I am gluing roughly 2" wide pieces to produce two top pieces for the Roubo top. I think the posters above have answered any questions I had in regard to this job. I am pretty confident that I have the hand and power tools for this work. I think I am pretty clear on the joinery to make the base for the Roubo too.

My experience thus far has been limited to: 1) pocket holes & screws 2) machine made finger joints, lap joints & lock miter joints for bee equipment 3) rabbets, grooves, round overs etc. made on a router table for shelves and paneling 4) gluing up boards for keyboard trays, doors 5) made a few simple built in cabinets in a knee wall and I have hung and repaired some cabinets.

I am studying videos and reading about joinery for cabinet doors, carcasses and drawers, so I am still a little foggy regarding whether I have the tools for the job. I am studying Jim Kingshoot's videos on Dovetails and Mortises and Tenons. Tage Frid discusess how to make a myriad of joints by hand in Book 1: Joinery and Book 3: Furnituremaking. I will start with simple rough cabinets and work up to nicer cabinets requiring fine joinery. I will start with 2-3 cabinets 6' tall x 3-4' wide x 16-18" deep using plywood with solid wood frames or edges for the doors. The first cabinets will just have shelves behind the doors, later cabinets will have drawers, panel doors & more solid wood joinery.

Brian, I just expanded my shop to two rooms! If I buy everything where will I put it!