I need a good block plane and some chisels...

[Michael Dunn]

I've been primarily a power tool guy for my entire WW'ing life. I'm now doing it as my profession and loving it. However, I am realizing the need for some good hand tools. Plane, block plane, and chisels.

What are some decent starting points for me? Right now I have some edge banding that is a bit proud that is like to plane flush. I don't want to break the bank of course. I've come across similar uses for chisels of course but I don't have any real chisels. Just some junk chisel I scrape glue with.

If I could know what some good, better, best options are that'd be great. Then I could know where to start.

Thanx!!!

[Joe Bailey]

This sort of question (in one form or another) gets asked all the time; the responses are all over the map.

You'll probably get much more useful advice if you tell us:
• what kind of projects you generally have in mind (including what woods you plan to work with most)
• what your budget is

[Dave Parkis]

IMHO, the brands of planes you should consider are Stanley/Bailey, Sargent, Union and the older Millers Falls. Those are all good brand names of planes that you'll be able to use forever. Those would be vintage planes that you can buy from several of us around here or, if your budget allows, you can buy Lee Valley (very good tools) or Lie-Nielsen (excellent quality and guaranteed FOREVER). Sizes will depend on the type of projects you need them for, but a Stanley 60 1/2 (or similar other brand) is a great all-around block plane.

[Michael Dunn]

Well, right now I'm working with some Poplar edge banding. I'm getting started from a professional standpoint so I don't know what the future holds as far as what materials I'll be using.

If I could get a nice block plane and a set of 7 chisels for $300 or less I'd be happy. I don't want to go crazy, but I also don't want to be cheap.

[Bill Houghton]

I concur with Dave Parkis that a Stanley 60 or 60-1/2 (differences are cosmetic) is your best bet. Look for one with black paint; avoid any with blue or maroon paint. If your budget permits, finding a Sweetheart era Stanley will give you better blade (cutting iron, iron [my favorite term for no good reason] - lots of terms for the part that does the actual planing work) bedding. And, if your budget then permits, an aftermarket iron will improve performance; I like Lee Valley's irons because the backs come dead flat, and you can just hone them and go to work.

As to chisels, lots and lots of choices. For not too expensive but pretty decent chisels, Narex seems to be currently popular, although you need to do a little tuning on them (the corners come sharp enough to cut you). Lee Valley offers a range of chisels up to mighty expensive. Lie-Nielsen starts at expensive and stays there.

[Hilton Ralphs]

If I could get a nice block plane and a set of 7 chisels for $300 or less I'd be happy. I don't want to go crazy, but I also don't want to be cheap.

You still need to factor in a sharpening kit of sorts, be it diamond plates or whetstones or one of those Tormek/Jet grinding devices.

I would think you need to apportion at least $150 to sharpening. What is in your favour is that Lee-Valley sell a nice 7 piece Narex bench chisel set for $69. This leaves you a decent amount for a second hand block plane or a brand new Veritas Apron Plane.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Michael,

Take Hilton's recommendation to heart!

In a 10 year span I bought 2 new planes and inherited a 3rd one. I used each one once. I got disgusted put them in a drawer and never used them again. 18 months ago I took a Rob Cosman class on plane rehab at the Spokane Woodcraft store. The most important thing I learned in that day long class was what "SHARP" really is. I didn't buy into the sharpening system he was hawking at the time but I did learn what sharp was. I have since rehabbed all 3 of those planes, I bought and use a sharpening system. Two of those 3 planes are now some of my favorite tools to use. I just put the last coat of finish on a project this afternoon. The joints that I was able to create with the aid of two of those planes are incredible. Butt joints in the faceframe....trimming the face frame flush with the plywood carcass without damaging the hardwood veneered plywood. Well....a sharp plane is a thing of beauty and dull ones sat in a drawer unused for years.

I think I may have to buy a new better quality blade for the 3rd plane to make it a commonly used tool.

The same sharpening skills make chisels a real joy to use too!

[paul cottingham]

Narex chisels and a LV apron plane would fill the bill nicely. An eclipse side clamping honing guide with a 1000 grit and 8000 grit (and a 4000 grit, if you can afford it) stone would round it out.

[Jim Neeley]

The next item is that you really don't need a "set" as you will rarely use some of them and even then could use others. It depends on what you are using them for but for me, a 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2" would be my three most used... and you wouldn't need the 1/8" except for certain operations, such as cutting London style (very thin pin) dovetails. With money being pretty important right now, I'd recommend going with less but better chisels if you are going to buy new. Your choice of sizes may be different than mine but my recommendation stands. You can always add more later if desired but it costs to upgrade a size you've already purchased.

Barring buying a few fairly high end ($) I'd recommend looking around here for a few chisels and a plane, buying some from someone you trust to have them already pretty well prepped for use. Until you learn what a pleasure it is to work with "sharp", it's a bit hit and miss.

Prior to doing anything it would be best to find someone here who lives within driving distance, if that exists, and get the feel of theirs. Again, it will provide you a good reference.

Unsharp or untuned tools = massive frustration.

[Lloyd Robins]

A couple of more suggestions for chisels that are slightly more money than the Narex are the new Stanley Sweetheart (socket) chisels or the Ashley Iles chisels (tang), again you can buy individual chisels. The smaller sizes are the most used, but sometimes a wider chisel (1-1/4 to 1-1/2) is also very nice to have. You can also watch ebay for quality older chisels. The Witherby, Swann, and Stanley 750's chisels are quite expensive even on ebay, but I have found some good Union and other chisels at very good prices. Paul Sellers has a video on sharpening that some like at http://paulsellers.com/2012/01/sharpening-chisels-forget-weaker-micro-bevels/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+paul-sellers-blog+%28Paul+Sellers%27+Blog%29 . He uses diamond stones, which are reasonably priced compared to some other systems. I use oilstones and the diamond stones are available for slightly less. Waterstones can cost a lot more, but a lot of people here swear by them. There are a number of good block planes out there, and pricing is pretty close on all of them. There are some that are wooden (Nice Ash, Emmerich) and some that are metal Lee Valley, Lie-Nielsen, so I would pick the one that looks best to me. I like the Lie-Nielsen 102I with an O1 steel blade. I have heard some good reports and some bad reports on the new model Stanley 60-1/2 plane, but the older ones are well loved. You will find that there are varied opinions on the best chisel, sharpening system, and/or plane. You might want to search the the Haven here for each one as you will find a great amount on knowledge and information available in the archives. Good luck. Oh, and welcome to the slippery slope of hand tools.

[Kurt Cady]

Narex chisels and a LV apron plane would fill the bill nicely. An eclipse side clamping honing guide with a 1000 grit and 8000 grit (and a 4000 grit, if you can afford it) stone would round it out.

+1 or 2...

[paul cottingham]

If you buy the Narex set, buy the smaller one. I only use maybe 5 of the set that I bought.

[Jim Koepke]

I am usually the odd duck in response to the "what tools should I buy" threads.

Just last week doing a lot of lap joints had me using chisels larger than 1" a lot.

Of course for some smaller dados and rebates my 1/2" chisels also got a workout. It all depends on the size and style of your joinery. The smaller chisels are great for delicate dovetails. If you work with a lot of larger lumber, you may like bigger dovetails.

Also only 4 of my many hand planes were bought new. 3 of those were Lie-Nielsen and one was a #060 Stanley block plane which was my first new plane purchase about 30 years ago.

If the Lie-Nielsen or the Veritas block planes are within you budget they are both great tools that will give you a lifetime of satisfaction.

As to used block planes here is a piece I wrote about them:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?123401

It was from a larger thread about rehabilitating metal planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

That is in the repository of great information, Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

This is inside the Neanderthal Haven Announcements near the top of the page of the Neanderthal Haven forum:

263664

Hopefully the information in those posts will give you a little understanding of the workings of a plane and working on a plane.

As others have said, sharpening is a very important aspect of getting hand (woodworking) tools to do the job.

Now back to chisels, in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs Bob Smalser wrote some informative posts on chisels that may give you some insight.

One of my findings with chisels is you want chisels that are sized to match the wood you work with. Much of the stock that comes into my shop is 3/4" and guess what size dados and rebates that fits into.

My work also includes a lot of construction grade 2X4 and 2x3. This is where a 1-1/4" chisel comes in handy. Even with bigger lap joints, a chisel much bigger than 1-1/2" is a bit big to use.

When I first started buying wood working tools I bought about 4 new chisels. They were all decent tools, but soon I learned there was more than just good steel in a chisel. For paring, my old Buck Brothers are my favorite. Thin steel with side bevels that can get into tight spots.

I also like to make my own handles to fit my hand and how my work is done. This makes socket chisels my preference. Some folks are more adept at putting a handle on a tang chisel than me and prefer the tanged chisel because of the balance.

Different strokes for different folks.

Now, to paraphrase what Ed Murrow once said, "If you aren't totally confused, you just doesn't understand the situation."

Good luck,

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

For the first block plane, I would buy a Veritas or LN. I would try the adjustable and fixed mouth low angle blocks from each of these companies and use the one that just feels best in your hand.

I have the Narex bevel edge chisels. They are fine.

[David Weaver]

I'd get a standard angle block plane that someone was actually using. A lot of the vintage block planes are fairly beat up.

If you can stretch the coin, you can get a modern premium block plane, but it's not necessary. Just don't get a modern stanley block plane as a default, or a beat up vintage plane or one that was found in a bucket and resold to make a cheap buck for the seller by selling you a plane that's not actually planed wood for a few decades. You might find an iron that's nastily rounded over from all sides, pitting, or busted parts.

Narex chisels, as mentioned. Good low cost combination for stones would be ezelap 600 and a 6000/8000 stone of some type. Use the ezelap to do most of the work and to flatten the finish stone. If you haven't sharpened much, get one of the cheapie eclipse sharpening guide copies (the "side clamping" jigs that are about $10. If I do still use a jig from time to time, those are the only ones. They are quick, work well, and still let you have some flexibility).

[Dave Cav]

I have a set of the Narex chisels for normal or somewhat rough work as well and I think they make an excellent starter set. For a block plane, if you can find a nice intact Stanley 60 1/2, they are hard to beat and can be set up to do both fine and coarse work. Make sure all the parts are there and nothing is stripped.

As for sharpening, yes, you'll need to sharpen them. You have received a lot of good advise. I prefer Shapton stones myself because I think they are a good value and are decent, low maintenance stones. However, if you are just getting started, Scary Sharp is a good, low cost way to get your plane and chisels very sharp and will teach you good sharpening technique without breaking the bank. Eventually most people move to some sort of stone based system, but for getting started, Scary Sharp is a good way to go.

[paul cottingham]

I have a set of the Narex chisels for normal or somewhat rough work as well and I think they make an excellent starter set. For a block plane, if you can find a nice intact Stanley 60 1/2, they are hard to beat and can be set up to do both fine and coarse work. Make sure all the parts are there and nothing is stripped.

As for sharpening, yes, you'll need to sharpen them. You have received a lot of good advise. I prefer Shapton stones myself because I think they are a good value and are decent, low maintenance stones. However, if you are just getting started, Scary Sharp is a good, low cost way to get your plane and chisels very sharp and will teach you good sharpening technique without breaking the bank. Eventually most people move to some sort of stone based system, but for getting started, Scary Sharp is a good way to go.
Combo stones are also an excellent way to save money. I started with a 1000/4000 combo stone with an 8000 for polishing. Use a side clamping jig, and make the jig that lie-Nielsen has a plan for on their web page for setting angles.

[Mark Baldwin III]

My 2 cents (which, if you factor in inflation and my relative lack of knowledge is worth much less)...I'm a Lie-Nielsen chisel junky, and I only own three of 'em! They make an impression quick. Anyway, for a bit over $300 you can get three of the most needed chisel sizes (1/4, 3/8, & 1/2), a low angle block plane, and a sharpening set. The block plane isn't an adjustable mouth, but I don't know if you had your heart set one way or the other.
Soap box moment...
A habit I'm trying to break myself of, is buying a tool that is just good enough instead of buying the best tool I can afford. After a few years of accumulating tools, and spending a lot of that time frustrated with those tools, I'm working on it. Maybe, I'd be better at woodworking if I hadn't thrown up my hands in frustration so many times. Ok...getting off my soap box. A good idea, actually...because I built my soap box and its pretty rickity.

[lowell holmes]

The old saying is "Buy an expensive tool and you cry when you pay for it, buy a cheap tool and cry everytime you use it".

Good used Stanley planes and chisels are not cheap tools and don't fit in this category.

I don't buy metric chisels because they dont fit imperial dimensions. I have a Japanese made plow that I filed the irons to imperial dimensions so they would match the chisels I use. I also have some Narex chisels.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I don't buy metric chisels because they dont fit imperial dimensions.

I'm just trying to think of a situation where Metric or Imperial would be pertinent.

Pairing, no
Mortising, no (just size the tenon to fit)
Dovetails, no

Dunno, where is this important?

Genuine question this, I'm not being facetious.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm just trying to think of a situation where Metric or Imperial would be pertinent.

I often cut dados with chisels and it is faster if the chisel is sized to the wood that will go into the dados.

Everyone has different ways to size their dovetails. For me one consideration is to make the sockets small end be just a hair bigger than my chisel size. Often my layout is done with a tape measure. So having to convert back and forth from inch to metric might introduce more mistakes than I already make. Besides, I do not like an 18 mm chisel telling me it equivalent to 3/4".

There are always ways to work around chisels not matching plow plane blades and wood sizes, but working around is more work.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Good used Stanley planes and chisels are not cheap tools and don't fit in this category.

The biggest complaint most often heard about old Stanley planes is the depth adjuster backlash. That is when the blade is set and you want to dial it back a bit the adjusting wheel may have to be turned quite a bit before it engages in the other direction. It doesn't bother me.

My planes are almost all Stanley production. When tuned and sharp they will make shavings and smooth wood just as well as the higher priced offerings. The modern planes from LV & LN are more precise in machining than the old Stanley models. They are also made of better materials.

Some of the Stanley models can be real dogs starting in the 1950's and later. I have seen some that requires a machine shop to rectify if that could do it. My preference is for examples made before the 1920's even though some feel the 1920's to late 1930's was the golden era of Stanley tool production. My preference is my preference and that is all it is.

jtk

[Sam Takeuchi]

Are your chisels dead on accurate? In my experience, chisels are never that accurately sized to matter for the corresponding sizes. Maybe the newer, precision machine made chisels of today are different, but the vast majority of commonly available chisels in metric and imperial size are never the size it is supposed to be, sometimes corresponding metric size is closer to the actual size than the imperial size chisel that is supposed to be that. I don't know, maybe I have a pile of duds in metric and imperial sizes, but at least in my experience, they vary enough not to matter one way or another.

[Jim Koepke]

Are your chisels dead on accurate?

Many of my chisels do caliper to within a few thousandths of standard inch sizes. There are some that vary from this.

My Buck Brothers and Witherby all seem to be sized well. Some of the odd name chisels tend to be in variance. This could be due to a previous owner polishing the sides.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

It is important when you are using a plow plane that is 6 mm and you want to clean up the end of the slot with a chisel.

It is called "slaving" the tools.They should all be dead on with each other .

[Jim Neeley]

All my chisels are Imperial rather than Metric although, after following this thread I'm less certain why except habit.

Let's talk about a dado for a piece of plywood: today's plywood (going into the dado) isn't really 3/4", 1/2", 3/8" or 1/4" even though my chisels are. If the ply was 23/32" it'd be .718. The 18mm, at .709" would be within 9 thou of a perfect fit. Meh...

Let's talk about a 3/4" dado for a piece of hardwood, I'd plane 4/4 stock down based on .75". If it were 18mm I'd go based on .709. At 21mm it'd be based on .826". If I did it much, I'd get metric calipers. My calipers wont know the difference.

[Chris Griggs]

It is important when you are using a plow plane that is 6 mm and you want to clean up the end of the slot with a chisel.


Yes I agree.

This is the one situation where its been an issue for me, and that was with a vintage 1/4" mortise chisel that was less then dead on too the my LV 1/4" plow blade. The chisel was off by only a miniscule amount, but dead oh would have been helpful. BTW, the solution in this situation, where exact sizing would have been of benefit (and where the was chisel was oversized) was simply to was to chop the mortise and the then plow the groove as opposed the other way around. Not a big deal, but to me the ideal siutaion is to be able to plow the groove first and then be able to chop a mortise the exact width of the groove.

I have yet to encounter any other situation where it mattered to me. Like most things probably depends a lot on how you work.

[Mark Baldwin III]

Let's talk about a 3/4" dado for a piece of hardwood, I'd plane 4/4 stock down based on .75". If it were 18mm I'd go based on .709. At 21mm it'd be based on .826". If I did it much, I'd get metric calipers. My calipers wont know the difference.
I tried to get Rob Lee to make a Story Caliper to go along with the Story Tape that Lee Valley had a while back. He looked at me funny and muttered something under his breath. Not sure exactly what he said, all I made out was the "eh?".

[glenn bradley]

Another Lee Valley low angle block plane fan here. The adjustment mechanism is easier and more precise for a hack like me. The Lie Nielsen planes have a large following and the end satisfaction will depend a great deal on your hands. I was fortunate enough to get to try the LV and LN planes side by side at a show. Both were great but, the LV fit "me" better adn was easier for "me" to adjust consistently.