One adjustable work surface to support all projects?

[Mike Holbrook]

I saw an interesting bench top support system, which I believe is a Noden Adjust A Bench Leg Set, in another thread and asked the user about it. Rather than hijack that thread I moved my question here hoping to get a little discussion going on this interesting but pricey system.

I have been studying the Noden Adjust A Bench Leg Set at Highland Woodworking for years. I have been considering using a set on a table/bench to use as a work support & project surface in my shop. I have a small bench with vises and I am about to build a large 8' Split Top Rubo. I am interested in a nice solid surface to use for larger projects other than the work the Rubo bench will be designed for....Most work supports are quite small and can be very tippy & fiddly. Cabinets need to be at one height, an outfeed for the band saw another height, then the Festool saw works best at cutting sheet goods or lumber at another height....I am thinking one assembly/outfeed/work surface on casters would be very handy and save me having to make several surfaces for various jobs, saving lots of space at the same time. I might even put my new Steel city Planer on a simple piece of plywood that could sit on it rather than build a special bench for it.

I am giving this idea additional thought at this juncture because I am not sure if the small bench I have will work to build my Rubo on and I want to get started. I have lots of cabinet projects I need to get done that I don't think the wife is going to want to wait on until I finish my Rubo. I realize that the Rubo project might dominate the smaller bench for some time.

My concern with the Noden system, other than the price, is my fear that the base would just not be sturdy enough? I am not familiar with any other leg design that would provide this kind of flexibility and ease of use in one package though. One of those sets with casters gets pricey and I am trying to figure out if the investment would actually net me a sturdy adjustable surface? I am not thinking about using this surface as a bench I would do planing, dovetailing, chisel work on....but all those other projects/jobs.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/adjust-a-bench-leg-set.aspx

[Lloyd Robins]

Mike, I will reply on this thread rather than on the other one. Yes, I have a Noden Adjust A Bench. I really like it. I added my own top which is made of layers of fiberboard and topped with a layer of oak plywood, which makes for a pretty heavy top. I made it sometime back when Chris Schwarz was just starting his studies on workbenches, so it is not in the current fashion, but it has always suited my needs and is very stable for the planing, chisel, and dovetailing work that I do. I don't have the wheel set, but I have often used the adjustable height to great advantage. I use the Lee Valley pups or my Moxon vise when I need an end vise, but I am sure that you can figure out how to build one in to the top. When the top wears out, I will replace it, but the new top will go on the Noden legs. I believe that I saw Toshio Odate trying one at a Noden exibit for planing,and he seemed to like the fact that you can angle the bench while planing. I have included a couple of pictures.

[Jim Koepke]

Mike,

There are a few threads discussing the Noden bench supports here on SMC.

Most seem to like the Noden system, but search noden bench using the SMC search to see what has been said. Some folks have different alternatives.

jtk

[Jim Neeley]

263400

Mike,

I have an AAB leg set for my workbench which is 36"x84"x3.25" thick and made from cut down 2x12 lumber (heavy). On one end I have a 36" LV twin-screw and for face vises on the other end I have a 36" L-N chain drive and (across from it) a Emmert clone, making it even more heavy.

To partially offset the weight of the table top I utilized some Vulcan constant force springs to provide counterbalance. Above is a picture of Eric's WB, as I do not have a picture of mine here at work.

Eric used two pairs of 25# springs while I used five of the 25# springs as a baseline test for my own bench. The net effect is to make the end of the bech 100# (or 125#) lighter than it would otherwise be. I installed my springs before knowing what I'd need but it I were going to do it again, I'd use a bathroom scale on each end of the completed bench, figure out how much counterbalance I need, and add that many springs. In my case I'd go with 4 on the end vise end and 6 on the face vise end.

Selecting the counterbalance is a judgement call base on how much you are willing to lift vs being in a place where someone leaning on one end of the bench causing the other end to rise.

Just my experience.. YMMV.

Jim

[Mike Holbrook]

Lloyd & Jims, thanks for the replies. I made a post on the "AAB" back when I was thinking about using it for the base on the Roubo workbench I have been collecting wood & parts for. I decided that I wanted a leg vise and ditched the idea of using the AAB base for my main bench because I saw no way to support a BenchCrafted type leg vise. In this post I was thinking about a third bench/table to provide work support and replace a workstation for a Festool saw....I was not thinking about using vises on the bench/table with the AAB base.

Now that I see people using this system successfully on their regular benches, and coming up with some ingenious ways to improve how well it works I am even more interested. I wonder if there is a way to support a leg vise on the AAB. It would seem obvious that any leg like support for a leg vise would limit the adjustable nature of the AAB.

[Jim Falsetti]

Mike - I have the AAB. The other posters show some great solutions. I would add the need to build and store a "bench on bench" is eliminated. Jim

[Mike Holbrook]

Good point Jim F! If I were to consider using this as the base on my big Roubo I would need two features which I am not sure are possible with this system. First I would have to figure out a way to attach and use my BenchCrafted Leg vise. Secondly I would want the stretcher, at least on the front of the bench, to be even with the edge of the bench. Looks like I have some research to do.

Jim Neeleys picture reveals adjustable feet and casters which look different than those Highland Woodworking shows on their site. For one thing, Jim's casters and feet appear to be height adjustable, probably for leveling the work surface. Are the two vertical pieces on Jim's picture of the end of his bench the springs he mentions?

[Mark Dorman]

http://americanwoodworker.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/resources._2300_145+DJ+2010+page+preview+images/14553_5F00_AssemblyTable.jpg

[Jim Neeley]

Some folks have privately asked me for a picture of my AAB with 5 springs, so I've taken a picture of the AAB to post.

Some have asked about the casters, indicating that some retailers seem to have cheaper casters. I purchased mine directly from Geoffrey Noden. In my case I had some specific requests so he customized mine for me. This was a few years ago so I don't know if he still offers the service.

In the photo you can see part of my Emmert clone on the right; the 36" LN chain vise is just out of sight on the left. Yes, I'm a lefty but wanted a place my righty son could work as well. It also works for me for certain operations. <g>

Jim in Alaska

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the info and picture Jim. Nice set up you have there. Maybe I will check with the manufacturer as well.

My plan is to use an AAB on more of a work table than a work bench. I am committed to a leg vise on my main workbench which seems to preclude the use of the AAB on that bench. I am thinking max 2" thick work surface for the AAB work table, if I go with hardwood vs sheet goods. I think a maybe 7' x 24" top 2" thick will be liftable without the springs.

[Chuck Nickerson]

I think a maybe 7' x 24" top 2" thick will be liftable without the springs.

You should be safe on this. My AAB's top is 8' x 28" x 2" with a 2" x 6" maple skirt.
The end with the Veritas twin screw on one side and a Veritas Tucker on the other is a bit heavy,
but minus that hardware you should be fine.

[Jim Neeley]

The nice thing about the springs approach is you don't have to choose it up front. They can be easily retrofitted to the bench, as I did. What I did was to build the benchtop and mount the vises while the bench was on a flat surface. Then I'd place one end of it on a bathroom scale (while it's lying down) to get an approximation for the lifting force required. This lets you choose your counterweight springs to align the lifting force with your personal preference.

Jim

[Chuck Nickerson]

They can be easily retrofitted to the bench, as I did.
Jim

Jim - is process on doing this documented anywhere? The older I get, the smarter this looks.