Small QR Vise/Vise Hardware Recomendations (for end/tail vise)

[Chris Griggs]

Hey all,

I need to replace my end/tail vise. I currently have a Groz 7" Rapid Action vise on my bench that I got for song when WC was closing them out. I was pretty happy with it until I broke it. Basically, I applied WAYYYYY to much pressure to it a while back trying to bench some metal in it (yes I realize that was stupid) and a bunch of weird hard plastic crumbled out of it that must have been the locking mechanism because now it won't hold any pressure.

Since I need to replace it anyway I've toyed with a few ideas other than just another QR vise (e.g. LV inset vise, build a wagon vise, cough up a bunch of cash for the LV QR tail vise or Benchcrafted vise), but ultimately decided that I really like the QR function for and vise and don't want to coughup $250 to $300 for this particular tool.

So long story short, I think I'm just going to replace it with either another cast iron vise or vise hardware, and wanted to see if anyone had any recommendations.

I know Jorgenson QR vise was really loved a couple years ago and got high praise from FWW...anyone know if those are still being made well (and in the US). What about the QR hardware (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=54873&cat=1,41659,41661&ap=1) or steel vises (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=49980&cat=1,41659) LV sells that are "made by a small European firm"...anyone have those and care to comment? I generally don't hold Rockler stuff in that high of regard, but they have what appears to be some decent QR vise hardware (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21523&site=ROCKLER)...anyone used there stuff?

What about the cast-iron vs hardware question? Other than difference in installation (both of which are easy) is there any reason to choose one over the other?

Any other thoughts?

[Prashun Patel]

Consider a leg vise with a wooden screw. Easy to install, relatively cheap, crazy clamping power, and the coarser threads of a wooden screw are a good middle ground between qr and a steel screw

[David Weaver]

I don't think it's uncommon even for the expensive QR vises to lack durability compared to a non-QR vise. I'd store a couple of items to wedge in front of whatever you're working on the bench and go to a standard non-QR vise on the end. The constant moaning that you see about the slowness of a tail vise is usually remedied pretty easily by having a few pieces of 3/8 or 1/2" thick lumber, or even wedges (like hisao used in that japanese video posted here a few weeks ago when he was making plane dais). and you don't really really have to worry about breaking your vise if the QR function isn't on it. I don't know what philly is like in terms of CL, but I have seen columbian and other standard vises with regularity on CL here for about $50.

[Chris Griggs]

Consider a leg vise with a wooden screw. Easy to install, relatively cheap, crazy clamping power, and the coarser threads of a wooden screw are a good middle ground between qr and a steel screw

Great advice Prashun, but this if for an end vise. My front vise is a leg vise (with a metal screw though) and I LOVE it!

@Dave. I haven't seen much on CL but you make a good point about getting a regular not QR vise. If I'm going to spend money I'd prefer to spend it on something that will last. Thats definitely something I'll have to think about.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I have the smaller (7") Jorgensen metal tail vise, and love it; one thing though, at least with the smaller size, it appears they changed the "base" casting (the part that goes under the bench) from what you might find (at least, from what I found when planning) in .PDF files of the dimensions - the base now has "ears" that extend out from the sides - so you can't butt the vise all the way to the edge of your bench, at least not without serious modification. So if you're using it with dogholes, it's worth keeping in mind if your dogholes are very close to the bench. Mine are very close to the edge, but adding a wooden jaw allowed them to work. (also gives me somewhere to put a dog on the vise side.) I think the photos at LV show a good idea of what I mean.

I don't know what was going on with the Groz, but there's no plastic in mine - it's all iron, steel, and a bit of bronze (or something) in the the threads "half nut" that creates the quick-release action.

Honestly, part of the reason I bought it was because it was the only readily available domestically made vise hardware at the time. (I looked for an old on Craigslist but had no luck.) Although, I see now, that TFWW sells Milwaukee brand vises, domestically made. I have no idea why I hadn't heard of these before, but they look pretty good.

Looking back though, if you're going to be using this as an end-vise as well, I imagine you're thinking about putting a dog or two in there. That means a thick jaw. I did this with a cast iron vise, because I came across a good deal on the Jorgensen, and because I could very quickly mount it to my scrap slab while I worked on pieces of the bench and other things, and have a functional vise. But if the Jorgensen broke or I had planned my building in a different way, if I was going to go with a thick jaw to accommodate a dog, I'd just be looking at vise hardware, not an iron vise. It's cheaper, and since your jaw surfaces are going to be shop-made anyway, I don't see any reason not to go that route. (the caveat here is that I don't have experience with the hardware-only vises) It's cheaper to get a larger vise this way, if that appeals to you, and you can readily get much more space between the screw and rods if that's helpful to you. If you're just planning on the using the iron vise with the built in dog, that might change things, but I like keeping my edge tools away from the iron of the vise.

[Chris Griggs]

Hi Joshua...I know exactly what you are talking about with the "ears" on the small jorg. What you said about wanting it as close to the edge as possible makes perfect sense and is one reason why I haven't purchased it. Though, yes, I would use it with a big wooden jaw so I could still get a dog close to the edge and since surface clamping isn't usually super hard I don't know if a little extra racking from having the dog offset a little more than it other wise would be would really be any kind of problem.

I agree with the vise hardware...I don't really see a disadvantage. My one concern is I'm not sure if there is any face vise type hardware out there that is the quality of something like the jorg (other than the new-ish LV QR face-vise which more than I want to spend and bigger than I want for my use as an end vise anyway).

I saw the Milwaukee's on the TFWW site...they are interesting. More than I want to spend ($210 for the small I think), but not necessarily out of the question...buy once buy right and all, and Joel tends to carry pretty excellent poducts. I wonder if there us any small face vise hardware out there of that quality (and perhaps made in North America).

I actually haven't totally ruled out the LV inset vise yet either, but given that my bench is already kind of short I'm heavily leaning towards the face-vise as the end vise something that extends the length a bit.

Also, just for reference here is the pic of my current tail vise setup...assuming I go with a face-style vise at the end it would remain pretty much the same. The block/chop in there is I think about 2" thick. I'll probably stick a block that is more like 3" thick in the new one, but that leaves 4-5" of travel (on most "small" vises) which is enough for my dog whole spacing.

263245

[David Weaver]

There are some non qr vises on ebay.

221230648193

I don't have any affiliation from that, but I did spend my college summers working at aristokraft in littlestown, pa. There was a foundry right next door, which is probably also closed now (actually, it's not, just checked). I don't know whether or not those vises came out of that foundry, but they may have. It's not a big town, and what I can recall there was the cabinet factory, the foundry, and a bizarre clothing outlet that was or had at one time been a place where they made those old white baby shoes. 20 years ago, they had stopped making them (I think).

Anyhow, ebay might be the right place to go for an old unbroken vise. You have paypal protection then if it's a dud, and you can wait for one local such that the shipping wouldn't be too bad (like that one).

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Dave. I'll need to check out ebay again. I had been watching it for vise for a while but I gave up as 1) I didn't know what I was looking at 2) The few I did know to be good ( and a number that I didn't) were as expensive or more expensive than something like a Jorg or Milawaukee + the shipping was higher.

Maybe I'll get better results if I expand my search to not just QR vises. I'll see what I run across.

Addendum: There are some that are potentially nice and heavy duty for decent prices. I just added a few to my watch list. I'm still not sure I want to risk the Bay on something like a vise, that I don't really know what to look for and that would be pretty expensive to ship back if it was bad. Anyway, I'm going to keep watching to see if I can get a handle on what comes up on ebay and what it goes for.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Now that I think about it, my one complaint with the Jorgensen is that the vise sags some at higher extensions - probably aided by the fact I have a jaw much like what you pictured on mine. I keep meaning to put some UHMW plastic runners under the rods to try and counteract that. I've also thought about adding a screw to the free end of the chop to counteract racking and not have to deal with spacers. I think I'd really like LVs quick-release tail vise, but the Jorgensen comes in handy for so many random things (many of which are not woodworking) that I'd probably miss it.

In the end, I think QR is nice, but really a false economy. It opens faster, but 90% of the time, I'm probably opening and closing a quarter turn to insert the same piece of stock and then flip around to work on the other side - I rarely find myself going between such radically different sizes that the QR becomes a deal-breaker.

As much as I like to fret over vises, inertia has set in and I'd rather deal with something more fun and cheaper than spend money on my current set up. Sometimes I wouldn't mind mine breaking like yours so I had an excuse.

I feel like last time I saw one of the 10" Jorgensens, it didn't have the "ears", so the vise face could go flush with the bench edge, but now it looks like they do.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

There's what appears to be a NIB 41012 Jorgensen on the Philly Craigslist, right now, Chris, for 130. Not a great knock off the price, but no shipping cost. Also an older small Wilton for $100 in Williamstown NJ. A 10" Columbia for $120 (listed under "*** WOODWORKING TOOLS" in Delaware County, PA)

Just what I found looking in the Philly CL quickly. And damn, I wish I was somewhere where my CL was as active as yours.

[Chris Griggs]

How did I miss those when I looked earlier today? That Jorgenson BTW is like 6-8 blocks from where I live and I could literally walk over and buy it if I decide I want it and its still available. Might actually be too big for though for what I want...will need to double check. $130 is not bad, not a steal, but a fair price if its in good condition...although I wonder where he paid $230 for it....that's like the MSRP and I don't think I've ever seen it for more than like $160 or $170...that smells a little fishy. Still worth checking out...thanks a bunch for pointing that out Joshua. Guess I need to to start reading the CL ads a little closer.

[Chris Griggs]

After looking around at stuff for the past couple days I think I'm just going to get the 7" Jorgenson. I took some measurements of the underside of my bench and the stupid little bolt holes that stick out shouldn't cause any problems. I really want to get something that I'm not going to want to replace or upgrade even if/when I upgrade to a bigger bench someday. I've never heard a bad thing about those Jorgensons and at $130 shipped from Amazon they are pretty competitively priced. Equivalent Wilton (http://www.amazon.com/Wilton-63144-Heavy-Duty-Woodworking-Vise/dp/B00062NEKK), though it had a cool design gets mostly good but some mixed reviews, is made overseas, and is $170, and the Milwaukee TFWW sells even though it appeals to me the most is just more than I want to spend.

I skipped on the one on the Philly Cl Jorg Josh pointed out. Good deal as it was, the smaller ones IMO are more appropriate for an end vise (at least on my bench) as the hardware on the larger one starts to interfere with some of my holdfast holes, and on the really big ones can be wider than the 10" width of the front of part of my split top.

Anyway, thanks for the input guys. I'll probably wait a bit to actually order since I want to finish the project I'm currently working on before I do any shop upgrades, and in that time will continues watch the Bay and Cl, but unless I find an exceptional deal on a vise that I'm fairly certain I'l be happy with I think Amazon is the way to go for me with this one.

[Chris Griggs]

Well I doubt anyone is all that interested in my vise purchasing, but I just ordered something so I thought I'd share. My thrift got the best of and I just ordered a 7" QR eclipse vise from WC (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2082711/32920/Eclipse-7-Quick-Release-Vise.aspx). The 7" is marked down to $80 thru tomorrow (about $95 shipped) so I figured I'd give it a go - WC has a good return policy and typically refunds return shipping so if its crap I'll just send it back at no loss. Supposedly these are made in the Czech Republic using the old Record molds, whatever that means - not sure it its the same as the "European made" vises that LV sells. One guy posted here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?195968-Bench-Vises) posted back in Dec 2012 that he has one and really likes it and with the exception of folks who complain about grease and a lack of installation instructions the reviews seem pretty solid. We shall see. Nothin to loose really...

[Chris Hachet]

Well I doubt anyone is all that interested in my vise purchasing, but I just ordered something so I thought I'd share. My thrift got the best of and I just ordered a 7" QR eclipse vise from WC (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2082711/32920/Eclipse-7-Quick-Release-Vise.aspx). The 7" is marked down to $80 thru tomorrow (about $95 shipped) so I figured I'd give it a go - WC has a good return policy and typically refunds return shipping so if its crap I'll just send it back at no loss. Supposedly these are made in the Czech Republic using the old Record molds, whatever that means - not sure it its the same as the "European made" vises that LV sells. One guy posted here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?195968-Bench-Vises) posted back in Dec 2012 that he has one and really likes it and with the exception of folks who complain about grease and a lack of installation instructions the reviews seem pretty solid. We shall see. Nothin to loose really...


i thought about that vise, but for eighty five dollars lie nielson sells a front vise for a traditional style bench...methinks I may go that away.

Good luck on your new vise!

[Chris Griggs]

i thought about that vise, but for eighty five dollars lie nielson sells a front vise for a traditional style bench...methinks I may go that away.

Good luck on your new vise!

Which vise is that? All the LN vises I've seen are over $250.

EDIT: Never mind. I misunderstood. You're talking about the leg vise screw?

That's what I have for my front vise, but I have this screw (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=41664&cat=1,41659) from LV. I love my leg vise, I'll be using the eclipse as an end vise.

263399

[Chris Griggs]

In case anyone is interested. I got my small QR eclipse vise from WC and mounted it on my bench this week. I read somewhere that these things were made in the Czech republic (which IIRC is where the LV vises are made), I read somewhere else that they were made in the UK, but as it turns out it is made in China. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing in my book but I was a little disappointed to see that.

Anyway, the vise seems to be pretty nice so far. I had a little trouble with the lever QR mechanism at first, but it turned out I was pulling the trigger too hard and lifting simultaneously the jaw which was making the vise stick. A nice firm squeeze releases it nicely. The QR function isn't perfect but I have yet to see one that is and the nice thing about the lever style is that I can choose not to use it.

The vise seems well machined there is some play in the screw and guides, but not an excessive amount. I assume there has to be some in order for everything to move freely, and really everything seems pretty good in that respect.

The best part is the screw action. The screw travels very very smoothly and at a nice rate.... definitely smoother than the Groz vise I broke. Because of that I would be please with this vise even if I never use the QR function.

Anyway, I haven't really put it though the paces yet, but I'm going to keep it. I think it was well worth what I paid for it. If it wasn't on sale though and I had to pick between it and the Jorgenson I'd probably go with the Jorg. Not because there is anything I've yet identified as functionally wrong with the ecplise, more that the jorg just has such and good reputation and I think it might still be made in the US.

Anyway, yeah, seems like a good vise...plenty good enough for how I will use it.