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Steve Clarkson
05-26-2013, 2:06 PM
I was contacted by a knife maker that bought "The Personalizer Plus" electrochemical etching machine from Jantz Supply (knifemaking dot com). He wants me to make a stencil of his logo.......would a mylar stencil work? Also, wouldn't this system (which is cheap and looks relatively simple to use) be better than using Cermark?

Rodne Gold
05-26-2013, 4:49 PM
Those devices work with a stencil that is like a silkscreen screen , where there is no resist/mask , it allows the electrolyte to come thru and when in contact with the metal , the wetted areas transmit currrent and thus etch in those areas..not sure what you would use in a laser to emulate that... generally they are pretty poor resolution devices...

AL Ursich
05-27-2013, 10:49 PM
I bought the Etch-o-Matic on eBay and some new chemicals. Youtube has some videos. I believe this is what he has.

I played around with it but was not all that impressed.. I applied some Laser Mask to some steel. I used the Laser to cut small text and logos on laser mask to expose the metal below. I used the chemical and even the Diode to get a deeper mark. It was OK... I only have a 20 watt so no Cermark...

SO a option is for you to burn some logos and use Transfer Tape to remove them for later being re applied... But the trick is keeping the letters intact.... Better to burn the logo on a blade then do the chemical... But that is Labor Intensive for YOU... and a poor idea and not what He is asking...

In the Videos you can see a Photo Resist Version being done.... The film is actually a silk screen type mesh with a film on both sides and you WASH out the NON Light Exposed Area. Leaving the MESH to hold the center of a "A" or "D" as you wash out the film letting the Screen Door let the Chemical do it's magic.

I would do the photo method for the logo...

On the Knife Site they sell the Dot Pin Printer Film that also works with a IBM typewriter. The Film has a short shelf life from what I was reading.

Hope this was not too far off topic...


Good Luck,


AL

Steve Clarkson
05-28-2013, 9:10 AM
So, in your opinion.......is cermark on stainless still a better option than this process?

George Carlson
05-28-2013, 9:22 AM
Those devices were designed to use the old mimeograph stencils. The stencil is a rubber covered cloth. When you typed on it the rubber was smashed on to a transfer sheet. When the transfer sheet was pulled away the smashed rubber was pulled off the stencil. The Etch-O-Matic and others worked pretty well on smooth surfaces because the rubber stencil sealed around each character. I'm not sure what you could use to act like the old mimeograph stencil. It may work to laser a mimeograph stencil in reverse from the rubber (green) side.

Richard Rumancik
05-29-2013, 11:37 AM
So, in your opinion.......is cermark on stainless still a better option than this process?


I'm not Al, but I'll say "yes". Cermark is the way to go.

If you want half a chance of making electro etch marking work, you would need to buy a real power supply, not a wall-wart. The real ones are made by companies like Marking Methods Inc, Universal Marking Systems, International Marking Group (IMG), Lectroetch . . .to name a few. So you will be spending $500 or $1000 to get set up properly.

I used to own the Marking Methods Mark 300A kit. The company is a fine company; however, I don't really think this process is that suitable for decorative marks. It is satisfactory for marking part numbers or logos on mechanical parts like bearings or drill bits or medical devices. But I will bet that lasers (not necessarily with Cermark - I mean direct marking) have replaced most of these applications. True, lasers are more expensive, but in the whole scheme of things it would be the way to go for mass production.

The stencils can be "home made" using a waxy paper and typewriter or dot-matrix printer. The paper is similar to the old Gestetner printers. These are "impact" stencils and good for part numbers or variable data like serial numbers. The good (permanent) stencils last a long time and can be purchased from the equipment manufacturers. I don't know the process by which these are made and they are tight-lipped. But it will cost you money and lead time to buy a quality stencil. Maybe there is a way of making these kinds of stencils but I don't know what equipment is needed - it has a photographic component. I don't see how laser-etched mylar would work at all.

The actual process is not really very fast - it might take a minute or more of "dabbing" with the tool to get a good mark, especially if you want depth. I bought the "instructional video" which was basically made by a company that makes accelerometers and marks identification on them. So it was of limited application.

I was not able to make a quality, consistent mark suitable for decorative purposes. I am looking for 99% yield for decorative applications. Rework would be difficult especially if deep etching. If you smudge a part number and it is still readable, it is a pass. If you smudge a logo on a knife it is a reject.

You will need quite a few different bottles of chemicals (electrolytes) which change depending on the metal to be marked.

Marking Methods sent me a steel sample with a logo which I would say looked quite crisp amde with a quality photographic stencil. It was only about .50" x .50". The color was not as black as Cermark - kind of gray. When I tried it, most of my marks on stainless tended to be brownish or gray - getting a black mark can be difficult or impossible depending on the metal. I could not get a good mark on aluminum either, which was part of my motivation for trying: Cermark does not really work well on aluminum.

I had ideas of combining this process with laser in some way - I think Al did to - but ultimately I decided I could not do any more R&D on it.

If anyone wants to learn more, the websites of the above companies have helpful info.

AL Ursich
05-29-2013, 12:49 PM
Great Post... Way more information then I would have ever developed... The Sticki Back Laser Mask was OK... And I too got the Brown rather than black mark too.. Dissapointing...

And I am in the Cermark Supporter boat too... This method did have it's day...

I would point the customer to the Photo Resist Film at Etch-o-Matic to make a logo mask... It cuts you out of the money but I think if the customer wants to stay with Electro that would be the way to go.. The video gives you a good feel for what to expect. Or even ask the company for a sample made with his logo... A try before you Buy.... On the Engraving Etc or HERE there was another thread about this topic and one of the members was a dealer... He might be willing to help with a sample. EE is a pay forum.

Good Luck,

AL

Steve Clarkson
05-29-2013, 9:07 PM
Richard (and AL too!).....great post.....thanks, that was very informative.