How Do You Make This Cut?

[Julie Moriarty]

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/Kitchen%20Cabinets/tightcut_zps9e13c699.jpg
Cut offs were clamped in place to show the "before" state.

I've been confronted with this type of thing many times, tight conditions, you can't take it into the shop, no small plunge cut saw, etc. And you don't want a huge mess because you're working in a lived-in area. In this case, the kitchen. I always start with the intent of making a "shop quality" cut and that's usually where the quandary begins.

I have routers, 6" & 7" circular saws, a jig saw, a couple Japanese hand saws, forstner bits, drills, etc. The circular saws were out. Too big, bulky and messy. Trying to rout through quarter-century old oak didn't work for me either. So I did the top and bottom crosscuts with a Kataba saw and the rips with the jig saw. The jig saw cut was less than perfect. I sanded to the line to finish it off. And still had a huge mess that, in total, took me almost an hour to clean up, even with tarps laid out. The tiny chips ejected much farther than I expected.

So I was wondering how you guys tackle a job like this? Keeping in mind a good quality end result and not too big a mess.

[Greg Peterson]

Coping saw and sand to line.

[David Weaver]

Cut a section out big enough for a japanese saw (a kataba) - coping saw and sand flush or whatever, right on the line. Won't be much clean up to do.

[Joe Adams]

I'd use my Fein Multimaster with a fine woodcutting blade.

[Sam Murdoch]

The Fein MultiMaster or the copy cats versions out there now. I had never used this tool until a few weeks ago - actually was inclined to scoff at it but then I had the opportunity to work with my brother who owns the Porter Cable version. Now on the boat project I am working on I am using a Fein nearly every day as my perfect tool for trimming and scoring all kinds of otherwise tedious cuts. This is a WOW tool for the kind of cut you are asking about Julie. In the past I would have used one of my Silky Japanese saws but I must now admit that the MultiMaster or its cousins makes this kind of work soooo much easier and efficient. I make no recommendation on which version to own. Need to get more use to have any idea and was inclined to start a post here asking which others prefer and why. The Porter Cable worked just "fein". They are screamers though. Can't be used without hearing protection.

Looks like Joe beat me to it :)

[Jamie Buxton]

There are Japanese hand saw that will do a plunge cut. http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32942&cat=1,42884 Multimaster guided by a straightedge is another way, but the downside is that it going to blow dust all over. I'd screw the straightedge to the offcut.

[David Weaver]

You can establish the line with an azebiki. I use one of those to make the initial saw cut on dados (they are super pimp against a straight edge), but a full depth cut will be difficult on a cut that short, and it's easy to overrun a line which will mean a saw mark on the front of the cabinet.

[Tom Ewell]

bullnose hand plane helps too after the prelim cut http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p4201s2.jpg (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=ZkAaIu4r8k9hBM&tbnid=x67rL36Os8jgxM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leevalley.com%2Fus%2Fwood%2Fp age.aspx%3Fp%3D49709%26cat%3D1%2C41182%2C68490&ei=AeucUaPkN4W84APziYCgAw&psig=AFQjCNG3-xFf4oKKjdIp_yZgFIb5OUJLug&ust=1369324673944372)

[Chris Padilla]

I guess all those who have posted understand what you want to do but I'm not following at all what you are trying to do here.

[David Weaver]

She wants to cut out the marked rectangle on the right side that has the cope cut right through the middle of it. If you look closely at the left side, you can see that the cut has already been made on that side.

[Art Mann]

I also use the Porter Cable knock off of the Fein Multimaster and that is what I would use for that job. I would clamp a piece right on the cut line to use as a straight edge and as a guide to keep the blade perpendicular to the surface to be sawed. By going slow, I could obtain a nice smooth cut requiring little or no additional work. I thought those tools were hokey until I finally got one to cut off the bottom of door facings for clearance for new flooring. Since then I have discovered all sorts of other uses. I don't use it often but when I do, nothing else will do the job.

[Julie Moriarty]

If I had the tool, this is what I would have used
http://www.dynamitetoolco.com/v/vspfiles/templates/RED-FLARE/images/categories/versacut/versacut.gif
I already made both cuts before I began the thread. I was just wondering, for the next time I run into this kind of cut, what you guys do when faced with similar types of situations. Every time I run into this kind of situation I think of a mini plunge cut saw but tell myself, "It's only one time. It's not worth it to buy a tool for just this one cut." Then a week, a month or a year later, I am faced with the same thing again. :rolleyes:

[Brent Romero]

I've had luck making a decent cut in a situation similar to this one by clamping a straight edge and using a Roto Zip tool with a very small bit. I think any route you go will cause a fair amount of dust. Another thing I have done in inhabited situations is have a second person hold a shop vac hose right against the blade. That usually sucks up 90% of the dust.

Let us know how it turns out.

[Tony Shea]

Lol, it already has turned out. As she just said she is looking for advice on the next go around. Her mess is already picked up.

I personally would derive a way with hand tools if dust control is a very important factor. I have to cut electrical boxes in all the time to add outlets, switches, etc and many times is in wood. My cuts don't need to be perfect as a cover plate will hide the cut. But I reccomend drilling holes large enough to fit a key hole saw into. They make some nice Japanese key hole saws that cut very effeciently. You will need to be able to cut a straight line with it to keep sanding to a minimum.

[Michael Mayo]

If I had the tool, this is what I would have used
http://www.dynamitetoolco.com/v/vspfiles/templates/RED-FLARE/images/categories/versacut/versacut.gif
I already made both cuts before I began the thread. I was just wondering, for the next time I run into this kind of cut, what you guys do when faced with similar types of situations. Every time I run into this kind of situation I think of a mini plunge cut saw but tell myself, "It's only one time. It's not worth it to buy a tool for just this one cut." Then a week, a month or a year later, I am faced with the same thing again. :rolleyes:

That thing will give you a hurricane of dust me thinks. I would go with the Multimaster idea that is exactly the type of job that thing was designed for. I used my bosses once to cut a square hole from a built in for running some network wiring and it produced very little dust and it all laid right where the cut was done.

[Mark W Pugh]

....... I would go with the Multimaster idea that is exactly the type of job that thing was designed for.

And, you would be surprised how many times you will pick up the multi master for various projects. For example, undercutting door frames to lay flooring.

[Julie Moriarty]

I have to cut electrical boxes in all the time to add outlets, switches, etc and many times is in wood.
Are you a Sparky too? :) I usually use a keyhole saw but most of the time the cuts are in drywall. For one job I bought a Roto Zip but the mess wasn't a concern.

It seems the kind of cut I did can either be done easily but not accurately or accurately but not easily. And the mess is proportional to ease. Or something like that.

I have this collecting dust in my shop:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/Tools/makitaminisaw_zps3de22be5.jpg
It's very old and the 9.6V batteries and chargers are dead and replacing them costs as much as that Rockwell kit. I've cut 4/4 oak with it but it struggles. It doesn't create much dust because the blade is thin with little kerf but that blade makes cutting a tedious process. You have to keep a sharp eye on the cut to make it straight. Anyway, this is where my mind went when I was faced with that cut in the cabinet. I took this saw out, tried charging the batteries (like I have many times in the past) and then put it away again (like I have many times in the past). I have a hard time throwing away tools.

[David Werkheiser]

I would use a track saw with vacuum on the stile and finish up with a Japanese hand saw on the remainder of rip cut and the cross cuts, This is assuming the cabinet is off the wall and laying flat.
David

[Chris Padilla]

It's very old and the 9.6V batteries and chargers are dead and replacing them costs as much as that Rockwell kit.

Getting them rebuilt might still be viable. I've had several batteries rebuilt by: www.primecell.com but there are others out there, too.

[Julie Moriarty]

Chris, if the saw was really worth it, I'd go that route. I used to use that saw whenever I wanted to keep dust to a minimum but it tracks so poorly it's hard to justify throwing any money at it. But thanks for that link. Might save me some $$$ when the 18v & 20v DeWalt batteries I have die.

[Peter Quinn]

From my perspective that cabinet is about two screws away from being in the shop on the bench. If there were cabs on both sides, crown, lots of infrastructure, such that it can't be removed, I've done a two person cut with a jig saw/shop vacuum (second person holds the van and moves with you) followed by a flush trim router, leave maybe 1/16" to clean up. Not so much dust, the shop vac can work, if you have a router with a vac attachment thats a good place to use it. Speaking of clean up....all that stuff has to come out of the cabinet prior to cutting regardless of method IME.

I'm having a hard time believing most of us could make a straight cut with an oscillating tool over that distance, maybe with a guide block, but clamping that to the keeper side could be challenging. Long rip cuts are not their forte, especially in a strong grained wood like oak. I have that same little makita, bought it for trimming cedar siding up on scaffolding........useless IMO for much else even on its best day, perfect for trimming cedar siding though. Perhaps a jig saw with edge guide and a fine finish blade? But honestly, looking at that particular little box.....its coming off and going outside where I can whack it with abandon with the tool of my choice and flush trim it into the breeze not worrying about the clean up.

[Julie Moriarty]

From my perspective that cabinet is about two screws away from being in the shop on the bench.

The 84x27 cabinet holds a very heavy 240V double oven. It took two guys to put it in. Accessing the wiring requires the dexterity of Rubber Man. For all the work it would have taken to build a platform to slide the oven on to, disconnect the oven, remove it, lug the cabinet downstairs, make the cuts then put everything back together again, I figured I saved about 2-3 hours cutting it in place. But it's done now, cut, sanded, dyed with 3 top coats of finish. Once the new doors go on, no one but me will care.

[Floyd Mah]

I think the dust control is the hardest part of this task. You might just have to drape off the area and use a powerful vacuum to suck away most of the dust. As for the cut, I would rough it out with the saw of your choice. Most likely my choice would be either a multi-tool analogue of the Fein (I like the inexpensive HF variable speed one because you can control the speed and it's cheap) or a jigsaw. Since neither of those tools would give a finish cut, I would clean up with a trim router and a laminate trimmer bit. I would tack a guide block to the back of the opening to control my cut. Of course the pattern would need to have three sides to avoid overcutting. The corners would have to be squared with hand tools, probably a Japanese saw and paring chisels, maybe a chisel plane if you have that. Then a bit of sanding to remove any residual cut marks.

[John Coloccia]

Personally, I would mark it out and cut away the bulk of it with a jigsaw. Then I would double sided tape an MDF frame dead on the layout lines, and use that as a jig to clean up with a router. I'd come back with chisels/files/whatever to clean up the corners if necessary.

Don't think too hard about this. Line up the "jig" on the top and bottom by holding a piece of wood against the existing cutout and butting it up flush to that. The vertical piece of the jig doesn't need to fit perfectly. It just needs to fit well enough that your bearing doesn't "fall in" to any minor gap. A sharp chisel will make quick work of the corner. The whole job shouldn't take but 20 minutes.

[Larry Edgerton]

Ironically I had to do one yesterday. I used a 3 1/4 PC router with a spiral bit running inside a pattern clamped to the carcass.

The size of the mess does not matter, you still have to clean.

Larry

[Tom Ewell]

The 84x27 cabinet holds a very heavy 240V double oven. It took two guys to put it in. Accessing the wiring requires the dexterity of Rubber Man. For all the work it would have taken to build a platform to slide the oven on to, disconnect the oven, remove it, lug the cabinet downstairs, make the cuts then put everything back together again, I figured I saved about 2-3 hours cutting it in place. But it's done now, cut, sanded, dyed with 3 top coats of finish. Once the new doors go on, no one but me will care.Bingo, no reason to over complicate the work. While it's great to consider "dust free" remodels there will always be a clean up. Minimizing the mess is the goal not some unrealistic sanitary jobsite condition. Most of this stuff I've worked on has been left cleaner than the original condition, especially kitchens where conditions can be pretty cruddy to begin with.

[Bud Millis]

263050
And a shop vac.

[Art Mann]

. . .
I'm having a hard time believing most of us could make a straight cut with an oscillating tool over that distance, maybe with a guide block, but clamping that to the keeper side could be challenging. Long rip cuts are not their forte, especially in a strong grained wood like oak. I have that same little makita, bought it for trimming cedar siding up on scaffolding........useless IMO for much else even on its best day, perfect for trimming cedar siding though. Perhaps a jig saw with edge guide and a fine finish blade? But honestly, looking at that particular little box.....its coming off and going outside where I can whack it with abandon with the tool of my choice and flush trim it into the breeze not worrying about the clean up.

My recommendation was not hypothetical. I have actually cut a 6 X 6 inch square hole in the exposed side of a cabinet made out of 3/4 inch oak plywood using the method I described. I don't think solid oak would have been much more of a challenge but it would obviously have taken longer. I didn't clamp the guide blocks on. I used carpet tape. The blade is made such that you can press the flat side of it flatly against the guide block (machined square 2 X 4 in my case), which provides both a straight edge and a way to keep the blade perpendicular to the work. The results are about as good as you will get with any power tool and the cut speed is faster than you would think. There is a technique to using one of these saws that makes all the difference. Once upon a time, I attempted to use a jigsaw to cut out and provide an extra 1/2 inch clearance for a new refrigerator. Using that method, I spent a tremendous amount of time with a hand plane and a very sharp chisel getting the edge to look decent. No such effort was required with the PC multi-tool.

That little Rockwell plunge circular saw that Julie posted about looks like just the ticket, provided the blade is parallel to the edge of the bottom plate so you can use a straight edge as a saw guide.

[Sam Murdoch]

+1 to what Art is saying. I have been very impressed with how easy it is to track a straight line with the Multi Master type saw using a good blade. Certainly not difficult with 3/4", or less, thick wood.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I use this to score a 1/4" deep cut/line:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-Mini-Circular-Saw-Attachment-670-01/100074420#specifications

(Of course, I have the luxury of already having the Dremel and the attachment.)
Then finish off the cut with a multifunction tool & sand it smooth.

The biggest problem I've had with making a long straight cut w/the multifunction type tool is getting the initial score/cut line straight - even when using a guide.
Once an initial straight cut is made, the MF tool's blade can just follow that cut as a guide.

So far, I've been happy with the results I've gotten using Imperial blades on my cheap Harbor Freight tool.

[Phil Thien]

There are Japanese hand saw that will do a plunge cut. http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32942&cat=1,42884 Multimaster guided by a straightedge is another way, but the downside is that it going to blow dust all over. I'd screw the straightedge to the offcut.

I've used this saw for a similar cut (needed to flush-cut some paneling). It worked awesomely!

If I was really being nuts, I might get one of those long magnet bars you use as tool holders, and make a straight ripping guide out of that.

[Andy Pratt]

That rockwell tool doesn't look too useful to me. It's basically just a smaller circular saw with all of the same limitations as one. My fein multimaster is my go-to for every type of job like this. If they stopped making them I wouldn't sell it for twice what I paid for it.

[Art Mann]

I haven't ever tried the Rockwell saw but it has a couple of attributes that make it appealing in this application, provided it is a quality tool. First, it is light and small. I would hate to think I had to hold my 12A Dewalt circular saw up to the cabinet in the original post to make a precision cut. The second attribute is it is a plunge cutter rather than having a retractable blade guard and fixed cut depth like typical circular saws. There is not way you could do a safe and accurate plunge along a cut line with a typical circular saw while holding it in a vertical position with the blade guard removed or disabled as would be required for the original application. O course, some tools show a lot of potential but just never work right in practice. I would wait on some hands-on reviews before buying one.