Fuming Oak

[Jack Wilson]

I hope this is the right forum to be in for this question. I am planning to fume some small white oak boxes, quite a few of them hopefully. I have 29% aqua ammonia and I am wondering if I can make it out gas more by adding water to the pan I pour it? I want to use as little as possible, while making the process as effective as possible. I have also read that I could put a candle under the the tray to help generate gas, but not sure how long that would burn in an enclosed area with all the other gasses in there as well.


Thanks!

[Sam Murdoch]

I don't know the answer to your questions but having successfully fumed kitchen and office cabinets I wonder why you would need to do more than allow the ammonia to do its thing unadulterated. I suggest that you build a small plastic tent (a size that allows for as many boxes as you might do at one time) with one or more open shallow containers of ammonia. The boxes should sit on raised points if you want the undersides to be fumed as well. At first start with one pan and keep track of the time to achieve the desired color. More pans of ammonia and/or more time until you reach the equilibrium of time and color that satisfies you. This then becomes a very easily repeatable process with out the need for mixing with water or open flames. IMHO :)

[Al Weber]

No need to add water or any heat to do this. In fact, it is dangerous enough without doing either of those. Ammonia is pretty toxic so you need a tent system that you can work in without being inside. I bought one of those glove bags that have gloves attached to a large plastic bag and you put your items to be fumed inside and then add the ammonia to a pan enclosed in the bag. However it is easy to build one using either a large clear trash bag or some plastic sheeting and using tape to make a bag. When you are finished make sure you have a way to dispose of the ammonia. I took the pan still inside the bag after removing the wooden items outside, added a lot of water to the ammonia in the bag itself and then found a place to dump it. If you dilute it enough, you can just put it on lawn or gardens but I found a bare place in my wooded area to dump it. Be careful as ammonia is very toxic by breathing and will burn on skin contact.

[Rick Lizek]

Don't add any more water. Put a fish tank bubbler in to exite the bubbles more to release more ammonia gas. You can use regular ammonia or janitorial ammonia to this just as easy and cheaper. You just need to leave it in longer. It has to be in a sealed chamber or tent to work. Do this outside. Ammonia can kill. We do timbers in a chamber 30' x 4' x 3' with pure Anhydrous Ammonia which can kill very quickly. We also use a full face mask with ammonia rated cartidges. Anhydrous means "without water" so you clearly don't have anhydrous ammonia!!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrous There is clearly more bad info on the web than accurate info. Doing the extra research to clarify the correct from the incorrect can save your life and your family. Regular ammonia would the same thing over a longer period for a lot less money. There are stains and dyes to create the same effect with less danger.

[Alan Schaffter]

What everyone else said about the dangers of ammonia.

I designed fuming rig using a sealed plastic tent with a closeable vent and an internal ammonia tray, and a semi-closed plumbing setup that allowed me to pump the ammonia into the tray and drain the excess back into the container when done, without ever exposing myself to liquid ammonia. I submitted text and drawings to a few of the WW mags so they could be used in a Shop Tip or short article. None of them would touch it! I wonder why! :eek: :eek:

[Dave Cav]

I fumed a large QSWO dresser/credenza a while back. I used a tent of 1 mil poly dropcloth material draped over a frame of 1/2" PVC pipe. The ammonia came from a blueprint supply house, and I used tuna cans for trays. Worked pretty well.

[Mel Fulks]

Alan,I think they just thought it was too much like the old prison gas chambers.The wood trim on the inside of those things is said to be quite beautiful .

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan,I think they just thought it was too much like the old prison gas chambers.The wood trim on the inside of those things is said to be quite beautiful .

:eek: :eek:

[Jack Wilson]

Don't add any more water. Put a fish tank bubbler in to exite the bubbles more to release more ammonia gas. You can use regular ammonia or janitorial ammonia to this just as easy and cheaper. You just need to leave it in longer. It has to be in a sealed chamber or tent to work. Do this outside. Ammonia can kill. We do timbers in a chamber 30' x 4' x 3' with pure Anhydrous Ammonia which can kill very quickly. We also use a full face mask with ammonia rated cartidges. Anhydrous means "without water" so you clearly don't have anhydrous ammonia!!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrous There is clearly more bad info on the web than accurate info. Doing the extra research to clarify the correct from the incorrect can save your life and your family. Regular ammonia would the same thing over a longer period for a lot less money. There are stains and dyes to create the same effect with less danger.

You are right about the type of ammonia, it IS "aqua ammonia", I edited my original post to reflect the correct information. Thanks Rick.

[Scott Holmes]

Why not use a water soluble dye, you'll have more control, be safer, and have more colorfast coloring? No tent no fumes.

[John TenEyck]

What Scott said. I got a real scare once after leaning over an industrial tank into which I had just poured about 1/2 L of anhydrous ammonia into the batch. The ammonia fumes literally took my breath and sight away instantly. I reeled back onto the deck gasping for air, tears running out of my reddened eyes. I wore full battle gear after that incident, and you should do the same if you try fuming.

Jeff Jewitt's website at Homestead Finishing has a recipe for a simulated fumed oak finish that works very well. What no one has said above is that WO from different trees will respond differently to fuming. If you are looking for consistent color, dyes would be a better and safer way to go.

John

[Alan Schaffter]

What Scott said. I got a real scare once after leaning over an industrial tank into which I had just poured about 1/2 L of anhydrous ammonia into the batch. The ammonia fumes literally took my breath and sight away instantly. I reeled back onto the deck gasping for air, tears running out of my reddened eyes. I wore full battle gear after that incident, and you should do the same if you try fuming.

Jeff Jewitt's website at Homestead Finishing has a recipe for a simulated fumed oak finish that works very well. What no one has said above is that WO from different trees will respond differently to fuming. If you are looking for consistent color, dyes would be a better and safer way to go.

John

Also, if you study the history of A&C furniture, you'll see that Gustav Stickley used dyes and stains with and without fuming to adjust the color of his furniture. I think fuming is one of those things that people want to try but often revert to dye and stains only, to avoid the dangers and hassle of fuming.

[Jack Wilson]

For the record, I was wrong about the type of amonia I have, it is aqua ammonia, I have 5 gallons of it, couldn't get a fair price on 1 gallon but found a great deal for a 5 gallon container @ 29% ammonia. AND I have a FULL face mask and ammonia respirators which , yes, I absolutely will use, I too have gotton a few whiffs of ammonia, that was MORE than enough for me!

[Scott T Smith]

Jack, one secret to maximizing the life of the ammonia is to keep your tent as small as possible. The less air volume inside that has to be saturated, the quicker the wood will darken and the less ammonia will be required.