Grizzly 19" BS fence on Rikon...

[Michael Dunn]

Hey guys!!!

So most (some) of you know by now that I purchased a nice used Rikon 10-340 from a fellow Creeker. So far so good. Although I haven't used it yet for a thing other than testing purposes. I have new tires on the way. Prescribed by Lou at Iturra designs. Still waiting for them to ship... (Hurry up Carter!!!)

Anyway, I have some light resaw work that required a good fence. The stock Rikon fence is an absolute joke. No matter how hard I tightened it the fence still shift to my left. Not on the rail, but the 'T' square aspect of it.

So I ordered the 19" grizzly fence since I was so please with their 14" version. It isn't an exact for as far as mounting goes. No big deal. I will drill and tap 4 holes to mount it. The Rikon fence allows for tool free quick removal of the fence for blade changes. (Why, oh why, didn't Rikon put the slot to the right?!?!?) the grizzly front rail has only two mounting holes. I'd like to drill two more and it the rail clean in half. Two bolts on each side of the split. I'm not afraid of modifying things. However, I just wanted some advice as to what you guys think about this idea. I also want to make an accommodation for a tool free removal. Although, as I typed that, I realized I wouldn't 'need' that option if I put the slot for the blade.

Thoughts and opinions?

Thanx!!!

[Jim Tabor]

Mike,
Okay...lets see...you drove to Kentucky to get the saw, ordered what...three WS blades from Highland Woodworking? New tires from Carter, a fence from Grizzly. Anything you're not telling us? :rolleyes: When will you post the thread comparing the cost to a new 19" Grizzly? :) Just kidding, I know how it works. Setting up the equipment can be as much fun as the woodworking.

[Michael Dunn]

Ummm, noooo... I drove to TN. Duh... JK... Bonus points for getting the add on purchases right though. I also ordered a Timber Wolf too. The rubber tires are shot on this saw. 10 years old I gather. I also order some new table inserts and a replacement table lock lever since the original one broke the first time I turned it.

As for the Grizzly comparison... I've never even used an actual grizzly tool. Even with the fence (I don't count the blades with the cost of the saw. Consumables are a separate matter in my book.) and travel I'm still way less than the 19" Grizzly. I think. $1100 is what I have into this saw including travel, and the fence.

[Jim Tabor]

Mike,
I gave $999.00 for a new Rikon 10-345, included new tires, new table lock, new fence and a new 1/2" blade. I did have to drive 340 miles round trip to Woodcraft in St. Louis to pick it up, but I don't count that because my wife sent me to the store for bread. (Only about 320 miles further). Gotta love this woodworking, any more fun and it would be illegal.:D

[David Kumm]

Starting to make my ACM LT 18 that needs nothing look like a deal. Dave

[Michael Dunn]

Mike,
I gave $999.00 for a new Rikon 10-345, included new tires, new table lock, new fence and a new 1/2" blade. I did have to drive 340 miles round trip to Woodcraft in St. Louis to pick it up, but I don't count that because my wife sent me to the store for bread. (Only about 320 miles further). Gotta love this woodworking, any more fun and it would be illegal.:D

Are you serious?!? $999.00 for the 10-345? When was THAT sale? I saw the recent sale for $1049.99. I would've only had to drive 80 miles RT for that. Good deal man! I mean steal!!!

I agree about the fun we have. I'm making 12 floating shelves and 3, four shelf floor standing units for a local candy store. Yesterday I cross cut, jointed, ripped 24 2"x4"s for the floating frames. I had the time of my life. I made great progress too. I would've finished the pocket screws for all of the framers had my mother-in-law not asked me to rescue her nephew severely botched oak table he's making for shop class.

Get this... It has 4 tapered legs. 14" from the bottom of the legs there are dadoes cut to accept a small platform. He cut them too narrow. I didn't feel like making a crosscut jig and busting out the dado stack to widen the dado. So I thickness planed the platform until it fit and finish sander it to final thickness. His shop 'teacher' had him use and OSS to THICKNESS the platform!!!!!

I said, "did you use and OSS in attempt to thickness this platform?"

He said, "my teacher told me to."

I said, "wow..."

I should've taken pics.

But yeah, I'm having a blast. Finally making some nice cash too!!

[Tai Fu]

Let me know how it works out, I'm also getting the Grizzly 19" resaw fence because the stock fence is pure crap. Yes it's nice that it's a heavy piece of cast iron but it is one piece, won't stay square (to the table) and the table pin prevents me from actually getting a narrow cut unless I temporarily remove the table pin.

[Michael Dunn]

I couldn't wait... Here's some pics. I tapped 1/4"-/20 TPI hole in my CI tops front face.

Drilled two more holes in the fence rail. Indexed it. Removed it. Cut it on the MS. Installed. Test cut, re indexed.

Perfect. No drift either.

[Tai Fu]

Looks good, but my bandsaw has a standard table pin that sticks out quite a bit which kinda gets in the way of things. I was wondering what can I do about that? Maybe if I just drilled a hole in the fence slot and put a bolt through?
262474

[Michael Dunn]

I would drill a vertical hole for that pin and tap threads in it. Then you only have to remove the pin when changing blades.

[Jim Tabor]

Mike,
I was wrong about the $999. It was $899, Oct. 2011. That's the reason I didn't get a 19" Grizzly.

[Tai Fu]

Is it hard to drill cast iron? My drill press can do it nicely but I can't really put this table on a drill press...

[Joseph Tarantino]

.......(Why, oh why, didn't Rikon put the slot to the right?!?!?) ......

in theory, to make blade changes easier. my now sold 18" jet's >= 1/2" blade changes necessitated removal of the table.


Are you serious?!? $999.00 for the 10-345? When was THAT sale?.....

end of 2012.


Mike,
I was wrong about the $999. It was $899, Oct. 2011. That's the reason I didn't get a 19" Grizzly.

go ahead, rub it in!


Is it hard to drill cast iron? My drill press can do it nicely but I can't really put this table on a drill press...

CI is soft enough to drill easily with a corded or cordless drill. use a sharp bit at a relatively slow speed and oil the surface where the bit contacts it.

[Michael Dunn]

in theory, to make blade changes easier. my now sold 18" jet's >= 1/2" blade changes necessitated removal of the table.

end of 2012.

go ahead, rub it in!

CI is soft enough to drill easily with a corded or cordless drill. use a sharp bit at a relatively slow speed and oil the surface where the bit contacts it.

I don't really understand how that would make anything easier. What model was the saw? I'm glad I cut the fence and rail. There are so many other things I need to do just to change a blade.

1. Remove shims from beneath my mobile base.

2. Wheel it 2' from my wall.

3. Open the doors.

4. Fiddle with the DC hoses.

I did NOT want to have to keep taking the fence off. The stock fence was super easy to remove. But it totally sucked. I needed the Grizzly upgrade. Very glad I did. I have to simplify this blade change procedure much more. I don't have the time for this.

I also need to get my other BS running. That'll eliminate much blade changing.

[Mike Cutler]

Michael

I've not had to do any of the things you need to do to change blades.
Pop off the guide rail and it's done. You shouldn't have to wheel the saw two feet away. Once the doors clear the frame they can be lifted off.

While the stock fence could have been better, I think totally sucks might be a bit harsh (You should see the one Jet sent out OEM with some of their saws at times. Totally Sucks would have been an upgrade for them). If you kept the fence though, post #13 in the thread link will show you what I did too mine.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?17055-Rikon-18-quot-Review&highlight=

[Michael Dunn]

Michael

I've not had to do any of the things you need to do to change blades.
Pop off the guide rail and it's done. You shouldn't have to wheel the saw two feet away. Once the doors clear the frame they can be lifted off.

While the stock fence could have been better, I think totally sucks might be a bit harsh

Are you saying the doors on my 10-340 are easily removable? I've been moving the saw since my 6" DC pipe with CVC dual 4" blast gate port is right there.

As for the fence... Nope, it totally sux. The rail isn't terrible. The fence itself is worthless. I'm takin it to a scrap yard. Actually, I'm just going to smash it on the ground. It'll probably brake before it hits the ground.

Maybe the ones you've seen we're better. Mine sux.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Are you saying the doors on my 10-340 are easily removable?

I've been moving the saw since my 6" DC pipe with CVC dual 4" blast gate port is right there.

As for the fence... Nope, it totally sux. The rail isn't terrible. The fence itself is worthless. I'm takin it to a scrap yard. Actually, I'm just going to smash it on the ground. It'll probably brake before it hits the ground.

Maybe the ones you've seen we're better. Mine sux.

sounding a little hostile.

[Michael Dunn]

sounding a little hostile.

I had a bad day today. Sorry.

[Michael Dunn]

So are my 10-340's doors easily remove?

[Mike Cutler]

So are my 10-340's doors easily remove?

Michael

I don't know the configuration of your DC, but unless it's running across the front of the saw,they should just open up and lift right off. Get them to the 90 degree point and lift up.

As for the fence;
Maybe I've forgotten the the poor quality of the fence. Mine has been modified since I got it. That 1/2" aluminum plate, and hardwood inserts, lock that fence up solid. In retrospect all I needed was a basic shape to hold it together until all the bolts were tightened up.
I like the addition of the Griz' fence you did, and the mod to get the blade off without taking the guide rail off is nice. Even though I did get my OEM fence to work, I've been considering alternatives.
Does the Griz' have a tall fence adapter for resawing, as the Laguna fence does?

[Curt Harms]

Looks good, but my bandsaw has a standard table pin that sticks out quite a bit which kinda gets in the way of things. I was wondering what can I do about that? Maybe if I just drilled a hole in the fence slot and put a bolt through?
262474

I don't know if it's practical with your table but look at how newer Rikon 10-325 bridges the blade slot. They have two vertical threaded holes, one either side of the blade slot. There's a rectangular piece of metal about 3/8"-10mm by 1"-25mm. This rectangular piece has one hole and one slot that match the vertical holes in the table. To change the blade, loosen two bolts, pivot the rectangular piece out of the way and the blade slot is unobstructed. Here is a link to a Rikon manual. Pages 9 figure 2 and page 20 sort of show the idea.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/library/manuals/10325_manual.pdf

[Michael Dunn]

Michael

I don't know the configuration of your DC, but unless it's running across the front of the saw,they should just open up and lift right off. Get them to the 90 degree point and lift up.

As for the fence;
Maybe I've forgotten the the poor quality of the fence. Mine has been modified since I got it. That 1/2" aluminum plate, and hardwood inserts, lock that fence up solid. In retrospect all I needed was a basic shape to hold it together until all the bolts were tightened up.
I like the addition of the Griz' fence you did, and the mod to get the blade off without taking the guide rail off is nice. Even though I did get my OEM fence to work, I've been considering alternatives.
Does the Griz' have a tall fence adapter for resawing, as the Laguna fence does?

Yes... It's pretty nice. CI fence. Extruded alum rails and resaw fence. Great value for $162

[Tai Fu]

I was thinking of drilling a hole right down the split inside the old fence slot, and stick a bolt in there with a wing nut that can be removed for blade changes... similar to the cheap bandsaw I used to have.

[J. Greg Jones]

Yes... It's pretty nice. CI fence. Extruded alum rails and resaw fence. Great value for $162
Looks nice-I've been considering the same fence for my new 10-345. Question on the back rail-is that the Rikon rail or did you have to mount the Grizzly rail?

[Curt Harms]

I was thinking of drilling a hole right down the split inside the old fence slot, and stick a bolt in there with a wing nut that can be removed for blade changes... similar to the cheap bandsaw I used to have.

That's how the Rikon 10-325 worked originally. You just need to be able to countersink or counterbore the head of the screw or bolt below the surface of the table.

[Curt Harms]

Looks nice-I've been considering the same fence for my new 10-345. Question on the back rail-is that the Rikon rail or did you have to mount the Grizzly rail?

I don't have the Griz fence so don't know how 'stiff' the front rail is. Take a look at how the fence mounts on the new Powermatic 1500 band saw. It looks sorta like a piece of angle iron bolted to the table on one side of the blade slot then the fence bolts to the angle iron. One side of the table has a gap between the table and fence rail to slide the blade in and out. You don't have to cut the fence rail and can still change the blade without messing with the fence rail. If the fence rail were stiff enough that seems like an option.

[Tai Fu]

countersinking/boring isn't necessary, the original fence rail is basically a slot in the table, like cheap bandsaws.

[Jim Tabor]

Mike,
I've been following your Rikon vs Jet, trip to TN, buy WS blades, Timber Wolf blade, table lock, table insert, tires, Grizzly fence, to fast/to slow, and DC adventure. And I must tell you my friend, I’m starting to feel your pain. :p

[Michael Dunn]

Mike,
I've been following your Rikon vs Jet, trip to TN, buy WS blades, Timber Wolf blade, table lock, table insert, tires, Grizzly fence, to fast/to slow, and DC adventure. And I must tell you my friend, I’m starting to feel your pain. :p

Me too. I think I'm in the home stretch though. I'm just glad to finally be earning some worthwhile money with my passion for WW'ing. The flood gates have opened. I just did a job for a store that's about to open. He already has more work for me. He's a real nice guy.

Here's some pics...

I built all the floating shelves and the 3 floor standing shelving units. Basically all the white stuff. Painted white, per his request.

The real long shelves needed support so they couldn't remain true floating shelves at 111-1/2" long.

[Tai Fu]

I just got the fence installed...

263764

The reason the cutout for the blade slot is so wide is because I suck at drilling cast iron and the bit walked all over the place before deciding to bite, and when it was biting it also walked a bit, making an accurate hole placement very difficult... I drilled very large holes on the fence rail itself to allow me to wiggle things into position. Doesn't affect the fence operation and it's a HUGE step up from the stock fence... very heavy fence that won't move or go out of square from locking it.

[Michael Dunn]

To eliminate bit wandering you need a center punch. I use the stainless steel sprig loaded version that General makes at HD. Less than $10 I believe. It will spare you the wandering hassle.

It looks good... Other than the 1/2" gap... Just teasing.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Mike,

Just wondering, since Grizzly fence doesn't seem to be designed to work on the right side of the blade why bother extending the fence beyond the blade? What am I missing?

Cliff

[Tai Fu]

You need it because the fence guide extends past the blade by several inches, and they need to be supported by the rail.

[Michael Dunn]

You're both right. However, I'm losing a couple inches of rip capacity by having it too far to the right. I'll address that issue as soon as I have the time or as soon as the need for more rip capacity arises.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

You need it because the fence guide extends past the blade by several inches, and they need to be supported by the rail.

Of course. I should have realized that. I have that fence on my G0555. I just didn't think it through.

I picked up a Rikon 10-325 to use for resawing and straight cuts during the recent sale and was looking on how to use the Grizzly resaw fence on it. I found the Grizzly high resaw fence will mount to the Rikon fence mount just fine with a bit of space under the fence since the Rikon mounting bolts are higher than on the Grizzly. I figured I could make a corian spacer and groove it so it will slide into the T track on the bottom of the Griz fence so I can use it on either saw. Slide the spacer in and use it on the Rikon, slide it out and use it on the Grizzly. That way I don't have to modify either saw.

Cliff


Cliff

[Tai Fu]

what I do is drill a larger hole on the fence rail, or elongate the hole with a router to allow you to move the fence rail up and down to take up any gap. Use a level to make sure they are level as you tighten the bolt.

I also cut a relief into the cutout I made for the blade... so I can actually use the table pin. There is enough clearance that the table pin does not interfere with the fence operation. So now that big 10mm hole I drilled for a bolt and wingnut is now redundant...

[J. Greg Jones]

Here is my Rikon 10-345 resaw fence conversion to add to the others posted here. I mixed things up a little bit-Shop Fox has the same fence for a little less money on Amazon. I paid $153 with no shipping charge and even with KY sales tax it was about $15 less than the same fence shipped from Grizzly.


http://f.cl.ly/items/200d2k2t103V1k3i0e47/BS01.JPG



I first checked to see if the Grizzly/Shop Fox back rail could be used, but the holes were off just a little. The Rikon back rail does work fine as is, so that's what I went with.

http://f.cl.ly/items/460b0x0n1w183e1u212J/BS02.JPG


The stock Rikon fence has threaded bosses underneath the table, so I marked the location of these with tape before laying out the location of the new mounting holes on the front of the table. You do not want to drill in this area.

http://f.cl.ly/items/2i2v0j0A1b2I070b0b23/BS03.JPG


One hole drilled, chamfered, and tapped for 1/4-20, only 3 more to go. The fence rail had been marked for center and cut in half on my miter saw.

http://f.cl.ly/items/420K403L1u1T0V3b250j/BS04.JPG


I used stainless hardware to mount the fence, and I also added a stainless flat washer to each bolt between the fence and the table. By standing the fence off slightly, this will make up for any waviness on the front of the table.

http://f.cl.ly/items/0H3u0z351e2c0F3o0609/BS05.JPG


Low fence position.

http://f.cl.ly/items/1x332x1X3T0f3d2D3U2Q/BS06.JPG


High fence position, checking for square. I did have to align the fence to the miter slot, but it is dead square to the table without any additional adjustments.

http://f.cl.ly/items/0r343A0Z2u2l1M073t14/BS07.JPG


And the view from the backside. I believe I'm going to be very pleased with this addition as the stock Rikon fence is pretty lame.

http://f.cl.ly/items/0O2T3g003x40280p2D2R/BS08.JPG

[Michael Dunn]

Looks great man!!! Nice job! I didn't even know that Shop Fox made one. I searched Amazon prior to deciding to go with the Grizzly. You'll be glad you cut that of for the blade.

[Tai Fu]

It's probably all made by the same factory. I had a friend buy it from Grizzly, and then ship it to me (along with whatever other items that would fit in the box, discard the foam packaging of course and you can fit a lot of stuff in it). Cost me close to 300 dollars when it's all said and done because this item weights a lot, the box is kinda big so shipping alone was over 100 dollars. Grizzly for some reason would not ship anything to Taiwan like there's some kind of an embargo or something, and I don't have the connection to find the factory/company who makes these in Taiwan (even if I did they probably wouldn't even sell it to me even if I bribed them).

I did not know shop fox had one though...

[Curt Harms]

It's probably all made by the same factory. I had a friend buy it from Grizzly, and then ship it to me (along with whatever other items that would fit in the box, discard the foam packaging of course and you can fit a lot of stuff in it). Cost me close to 300 dollars when it's all said and done because this item weights a lot, the box is kinda big so shipping alone was over 100 dollars. Grizzly for some reason would not ship anything to Taiwan like there's some kind of an embargo or something, and I don't have the connection to find the factory/company who makes these in Taiwan (even if I did they probably wouldn't even sell it to me even if I bribed them).

I did not know shop fox had one though...

I find your situation .... peculiar. I can see the Taiwanese manufacturers requiring some sort of no-compete agreement from Grizzly. But if no Taiwanese business is selling the same or similar, where's the competition? Is it due to Grizzly's metalworking line?

[Tai Fu]

Possibly... it is much easier to find metalworking machines and jigs in Taiwan... you can actually get a bridgeport-like mill in Taiwan for under 1000USD... makes those mini mill really expensive by comparison. The catch is you need an industrial setting to support them... because I don't know anyone who wants to move a 3000lb mill up 5 flights of stairs.

Grizzly of course won't even tell you why they won't sell here... or refer me to their suppliers who might sell to me.