A neander-haul

[Dave Pugh]

I do both power tool and hand tool work, sort of a happy balance between Norm and Roy, but am wanting to increase some of the hand work I do. I have a very small shop and no way can a good power jointer fit. I want to start working with rough lumber, and I have had several people recommend surfacing the wood by hand instead of a small bench top jointer. I also make a lot of things with power tools and quite good at it, now I would like to do the same with hand tools. I decided to check out one of the local antique stores today for some hand planes, and I left with a decent haul.

The two metal planes are Miller Falls, and I got the egg beater drill because I have a brace drill and wanted to add the egg beater style
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3354_zps0a35aef4.jpg

I believe this would be a smoothing plane. The blades on both metal planes are nice and clean.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3355_zpsa5c7fa1f.jpg

Jack plane?
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3359_zpsaf1bc44d.jpg

The smaller wooden plane. The blade needs lots of cleaning maybe replacing.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3360_zps6e83ec1f.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3361_zps1d76399c.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3365_zps8738b3d9.jpg

The larger wooden plane. Would this be considered a jointer plane? The blade on this one is in good condition.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3367_zps898d977c.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3368_zpsf82a93af.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3370_zps9d89a213.jpg

[Bill Houghton]

Good finds! Yes, you've IDed the plane types correctly. The little wooden smoother (known as a "coffin smoother" for its shape, not its function) is sweet. Before you give up on that iron, get some white vinegar from the grocery store, find a suitable plastic container to accept the iron, and soak it and the chipbreaker for 24 hours, then brush off the rust, wash them immediately in lots of water, and soak them down in WD-40. You may find it cleans up nicely.

[Dave Pugh]

Before you give up on that iron, get some white vinegar from the grocery store, find a suitable plastic container to accept the iron, and soak it and the chipbreaker for 24 hours, then brush off the rust, wash them immediately in lots of water, and soak them down in WD-40. You may find it cleans up nicely.

A friend had someone give him a Shopsmith, and me friend gave it to me. It was a rusted hunk of metal. I cleaned it up nice and bright and got it working. The plane iron and blade should be no issue. ;-) I may have to reflatten the bottoms of both wooden planes, but that would be about all the "restoration" I would do. As long as they function properly, I kind of like the rough, used look of the wood planes.

I want to go back this weekend. The guy I bought the Miller Falls from had some rabbet planes and a whole bunch of Stanely planes that are supposed to be from the 1930s to 40s, and some from the 60s. Plus he had several nice hand saws, though they need sharpening and I have the slightest idea on how to do that, and lots and lots of C-clamps. It looked like he was cleaning his shop out. There was another booth that had what I think are chisel planes plus a wooden plane that would cut a rounded groove. Yet another booth had some slightly longer wooden coffin style jointer planes with wooden holder instead of the metal holder of the jointer plane I now have.

[Jim Koepke]

The 11 inch Millers Falls plane is equivalent to the Stanley/Bailey #5-1/4. It is a good size for a scrub plane. All it may need is a bit of curvature to the blade.

The jointer is known as a transitional.

Decent find.

jtk

[Zach Dillinger]

I would pedantically call that transitional a try plane. It is too short to really be called a jointer plane, but it could be used for jointing edges on shorter pieces. Nice finds!

[Dave Pugh]

I would pedantically call that transitional a try plane. It is too short to really be called a jointer plane, but it could be used for jointing edges on shorter pieces. Nice finds!

What would you consider to be the maximum length the transitional plane would edge joint the best? What about flattening face surfaces? Do I still need another type of planer for face surfacing?

[Chris Griggs]

What would you consider to be the maximum length the transitional plane would edge joint the best? What about flattening face surfaces? Do I still need another type of planer for face surfacing?

That transitional will be great for flattening faces for most furniture scale stuff. Something longer would simply make edge jointing longer pieces easier. That said, before I had a 7 and 8, I edge jointed boards up to 5 ft (maybe even 6') in length with a No. 6. You just need to pay closer attention and do more checks with a straight edge to get the edge straight. In general I'd say things become less than ideal once you get much longer than twice the length of the plane - though I think the I read that the "rule of thumb" is up to 3 times its length. There's not really an absolute max, per se, its more about what is ideal for the size of the given board you are working.

Oh yeah...Nice finds!

[Dave Pugh]

I typically deal with no more than 6 feet in length and 8 inches or so in width. If I need wider, I edge join to my width. The reason being is that 6 feet is the maximum length I can haul.

[Zach Dillinger]

What would you consider to be the maximum length the transitional plane would edge joint the best? What about flattening face surfaces? Do I still need another type of planer for face surfacing?


That transitional will be great for flattening faces for most furniture scale stuff. Something longer would simply make edge jointing longer pieces easier. That said, before I had a 7 and 8, I edge jointed boards up to 5 ft (maybe even 6') in length with a No. 6. You just need to pay closer attention and do more checks with a straight edge to get the edge straight. In general I'd say things become less than ideal once you get much longer than twice the length of the plane - though I think the I read that the "rule of thumb" is up to 3 times its length. There's not really an absolute max, per se, its more about what is ideal for the size of the given board you are working.

Oh yeah...Nice finds!

I'd say Chris has it nailed. I wouldn't want to joint an eight foot piece with that plane, or six really unless I had no other choice. I would be perfectly comfortable with anything up to about four or five feet. But as Chris said, if you're careful, you can use just about anything to do it. It's just a lot easier with a plane of the appropriate length.

I get a ton of edge-jointing use out of my 20" infill, but there are times when I just feel that I need my 30" shop-built plane. Point and shoot to very straight edges with that guy.

If these planes were the only planes I had, I would set up the larger metal plane for a roughing plane, the transitional try to provide a flat surface by taking thin-moderate shavings, and the MF smooth to be a final smooth. Then I would sort out that coffin smooth and get that ready too (it will need a patch in the mouth, something that requires a separate finely set plane to accomplish).

[Steve Meliza]

I wish antique stores around here had tools like that. As a point of comparison, Bob Rozaieski (http://logancabinetshoppe.com/podcast.php) suggests 14"-20" for a fore plane and 22"-26" for a try plane. He uses his try plane for edge jointing as well as trying the faces of boards. I'm currently using a 21" fore plane and 26" try plane because that's what I was able to find and they're doing a good job of it.

Your 20" transitional plane is the longest you've got so it'll have to be your try plane. If you find it isn't up to the task for what you're working on then you might need to up-size a bit.

[Zach Dillinger]

Steve has the right idea. The reason I said "pedantically" in my first post is that it really doesn't matter what size the plane is, they are just names. If you can make them work, then that is all that counts.

[Dave Pugh]

Very rarely do I actually use a whole six foot length of board uncut. Most of the time I take a six foot board and cut my pieces out of it. I have been thinking about how I would surface a board, even if it was with a bench top jointer. I would most likely cut the lengths that I needed out of the board a bit over length and then surface, so in reality I would only be having to surface no more than four to five feet face and edge. Then I would cut to final size, or rip and edge again if I needed pieces not as wide as the board.

[Jim Koepke]

All the "Rules of Thumb" get kicked aside when it comes to working with the "Tools in the Shop."

Many people have edge joined 8' boards with a 14" Jack plane.

At first when reading this:


I typically deal with no more than 6 feet in length and 8 inches or so in width. If I need wider, I edge join to my width. The reason being is that 6 feet is the maximum length I can haul.

My first thought was to mention about how my short bed truck has carried longer boards, it just required taking care around low branches. Then it was realized you likely have a car without a sun roof. A 6 foot limit is a drag since most often a lot of wood comes in 8' lengths.

When I went to buy some long lengths last week, my saw and a pair of saw horses came along for the ride.

jtk

[Bill Houghton]

The 11 inch Millers Falls plane is equivalent to the Stanley/Bailey #5-1/4. It is a good size for a scrub plane. All it may need is a bit of curvature to the blade.
jtk
It's not a bad size for a jack plane, either.

[Dave Pugh]

Well I did it again. I had to go back to the antique mall to look at the old planes again. There was one booth I went back to that had some longer all wood planes. I found one in ok condition that was 22" long. I then decided to go back to the booth that I bought both of the Miller Falls planes from as I wanted to get a block plane. I get my block plane, a Stanely, and lo and behold, look at what I find up on a top shelf.

A 26" transitional plane, shown along side my new block plane.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3372_zps1c8eed09.jpg

Here is the 20" transitional plane that I purchased yesterday along side my new 26" plane.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i214/DavidPugh/IMG_3373_zpscb8dbf02.jpg

As for the 22" long all wood plane, I went and put it back at its booth. Sort of felt sad for it, but didn't think I need a 20", a 22", and a 26" plane.

I now have a block plane, a metal smoothing plane and a jack plane, a wooden smoothing plane, a 20" transitional and a 26" transitional plane. I believe I am fairly well set for basic planes now. I know there are rabbet planes, moulding planes, chisel planes, routing planes, and so forth, but those may come much later.

[steven c newman]

Good start! But watch out, it is a mighty slippery slope you be a-standing on....262488Don't ask me how I know this......

[Dave Parkis]

As Steve said, you're off to a good start. I would caution you against buying Stanley planes form the 60's, however. They were not as well made (IMHO) as the earlier models. Get yourself a 78 (rabbeting plane), a shoulder plane and a few pairs of hoolows & rounds and you'll be set for quite a while. Have Fun!!!

[Dave Pugh]

I do not know how to date Stanley planes. My block plane has on the top of the blade in an arc "Stanley Rule & Level Co." and "New Britian, Conn. U.S.A." underneath the company name.

[Bill Houghton]

Be careful with the transitional planes. Wood can warp in various directions, more easily/dramatically than metal. I once owned a 28" jointer plane, really nice except for the fact that it was twisted over its length. I joke that it was optimized for shaping airplane propellors, though I'm not sure it was twisted in the correct direction. I could have removed the metal and planed it down bottom and top to be smooth - but it would have been much, much thinner...and, anyway, what would I have used to plane it?

[Dave Pugh]

The 26" is nice and flat on sole and sides. Checked before buying. The 20" shows a thin sliver of light in a couple of places when putting a straight edge to the sole, less than 1/8" maybe 1/16".

[Steve Meliza]

Your fore plane doesn't need to be flat, it is for rough work.

[Dave Parkis]

I do not know how to date Stanley planes. My block plane has on the top of the blade in an arc "Stanley Rule & Level Co." and "New Britian, Conn. U.S.A." underneath the company name.

Its really difficult to date the block planes, but the description of the stamping on the iron tells me its very, very old.

[Jim Koepke]

I do not know how to date Stanley planes. My block plane has on the top of the blade in an arc "Stanley Rule & Level Co." and "New Britian, Conn. U.S.A." underneath the company name.

Here is a listing of some of the Stanley trade marks with dates. I do not know if this is all of the trade marks Stanley used.

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stantms.htm

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

but didn't think i need a 20", a 22", and a 26" plane.

blasphemy!


but watch out, it is a mighty slippery slope you be a-standing on....

262553

And it just keeps growing!

Some of these have moved on, but more than have left have moved in.

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

Nice finds...I need to now find myself some rabbiting planes....

[Dave Pugh]

On the underside of the lever cap of the Stanley block plane is the number 1146. Also found that the 20" transitional plane is a Fulton and the 26" is a Union. I almost have the blade of the coffin plane cleaned up enough to see the manufacture.

[Bill Houghton]

There's somewhat of a type study for Stanley block planes here: http://virginiatoolworks.wordpress.com/tools/stanley-planes/date-your-block-plane-type-study/

And I have assumed, pending finding out I'm wrong, that the maker stamp at the top of the plane iron is the same on the bench planes as on other planes. There's a nice visual to the plane iron markings here: http://www.rexmill.com/ (follow the "type study" link at top right of the screen).