HELP - dead Live Oak Trees - usable?

[Paul Prescott]

The beautiful trees on my property succumbed to oak wilt. 20+ trees in all, DEAD. Rest treated today with Alamo in attempt to save them.

These are all Live Oaks. I know they can be used in the fireplace, but - can any of the wood be salvaged for woodwork???

I know that "spalted" woods are those infected with fungus etc. Oak wilt is a fungus. IF I can save some for projects, any suggestions??

Need to know within a week before the chainsaws get busy! Thanks!

[Maurice Ungaro]

Paul,
My deepest sympathies - Live Oaks are my favorite majestic tree.
My brother told me of a chemical treatment that you spray onto the mikked lumber in order to kill such a fungus. I'll call him today, if I get a chance and get the info for you.

[John Hart]

I love Live Oak. Every time I'm in San Antonio visiting my parents, I want to take a chainsaw to one of them and put it on the lathe. I would expect that you are looking at some great projects!

Burning it will just help Global Warming...make furniture instead! :rolleyes:

[Paul Prescott]

One of the reasons we bought this house was the beautiful live oaks. But too many are dead.

I appreciate the info. The arborist has finished injecting the "good" trees with Alamo so hopefully they will survive 'tho 2 don't look too good.

That leaves 29 that are dead/dying and have to be removed. A few are just scrub trees, not worth much other than as firewood. But many are 18-20" doameter with good straight trunks up to 12' tall.

So, if I can salvage these, do I just let them dry for a year or two? Do I resaw them (with lung protection) then let dry? Either way, should the ends be sealed? I know oak tends to twist/warp when drying, but after paying $4,000 for treatment and another $4,300 for removal, plus the cost of some replacement trees, I can't quite afford a sawyer or kiln drying.

Any advice much appreciated!

[Donnie Raines]

You never know what you are going to get until you get in there. Should you decide to mill them up, seal the ends with parrafin wax or ancorh seal. Also, if you can determine a log has ome interesting figure or spalting, you may want to cut them into thicker chucks for turning or for resawing and bookmatching etc...

[Jim Becker]

For logs of that size, you're going to need a sawyer with a portable mill...or invest in something like an Alaskan and eat your wheaties...and have lots of muscle balm available to recover from the experience. Those logs are too big to even think about milling with even a heavy Euro bandsaw. Sawyers with portable mills are actually relatively inexpensive. Some charge by the board foot; others by time. (Mine cost $50 hr) Some will also barter some lumber for services. BTW, they need to be milled into lumber before you can dry them...

[Mike Ramsey]

Hi Paul, some friends in my area are losing their Oaks also. One friend in particular who lives near Victoria Tx lost 16 Post Oaks and he said that the entire subdivision was affected. I'm surprised that yours is Live Oaks as Post Oaks root system tend to link to each other therefore spreading the disease and Live Oaks have a seperate root system not linking them, so you don't usually see that in Live Oaks. Anyway He rented a chainsaw from HD and cut his down. Don't think he will try to save any.

[thomas prevost]

It is my understanding from the forestry data, the fungus is only active in living trees. Once cut down the activity stops. If anyone has different info, please state it as I don't wish to mislead anyone.

Down and off the ground, oak generally last a few years before cutting. You may loose an inch on the surface due to some deterioration. Bark and spray with pesticide. Use limb material to hold off the ground. Just a suggestion.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

It is my understanding from the forestry data, the fungus is only active in living trees. Once cut down the activity stops. If anyone has different info, please state it as I don't wish to mislead anyone.

Down and off the ground, oak generally last a few years before cutting. You may loose an inch on the surface due to some deterioration. Bark and spray with pesticide. Use limb material to hold off the ground. Just a suggestion.

Thomas, Oak wilt can spread through firewood--its a fungus and it can live in the dead wood for some time. Its generally spread by an insect called a picnic beetle. It gets the spores on its feet and spreads it from tree to tree.

Here's some info.

Above ground -- The disease can be spread by beetles carrying fungal spores from diseased red oak trees to fresh wounds on healthy oaks. These beetles are responsible for the long distance spread of oak wilt and are the cause of new oak wilt centers. When a red oak becomes infected with oak wilt, it can form a fungal mat under the bark. This fungal mat is the reproductive structure of the disease and produces millions of spores. When beetles feed on this sweet smelling mat, the spores stick to their bodies. The beetles also feed on the sap oozing from fresh wounds on healthy oaks. During feeding, the beetles can deposit fungal spores onto a wound on a healthy tree and form a new infection center. Long distance spread can also occur when beetles are attracted to green, infected red oak firewood. If a beetle flies from a firewood fungal mat to a fresh wound on a healthy tree, infection can occur.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Hi Paul, some friends in my area are losing their Oaks also. One friend in particular who lives near Victoria Tx lost 16 Post Oaks and he said that the entire subdivision was affected. I'm surprised that yours is Live Oaks as Post Oaks root system tend to link to each other therefore spreading the disease and Live Oaks have a seperate root system not linking them, so you don't usually see that in Live Oaks. Anyway He rented a chainsaw from HD and cut his down. Don't think he will try to save any.

Mike, Live oaks link their roots, that's how whole groves of live oaks can die all at once. You can see that in many places north of San Antonio.

Here's some info from the City of Austin's web page.

Underground -- It is very common for oak trees to establish a system of interconnected roots. These connected roots allow the oak wilt fungus to move from tree-to-tree, often leading to patches of infected and dead trees. In fact, once one oak becomes infected, the disease can radiate outward, spreading to any oaks that share a common root system. This pattern of disease movement can be compared to the ripples of water that appear after dropping a rock in a pond. On average, oak wilt will move at a rate of 75 to 100 feet per year. In urban areas with numerous live oaks, the disease can move from one house lot to another each year.

[John Hart]

Geez...that's scary. So my parents live right outside Bulverde....Is there a Live Oak problem that I should warn them about?

[Dennis McDonaugh]

John, I'd be surprised if the aren't already aware of it. Do a search for oak wilt and you'll find lots of info on the disease. The normal precautions are to trim the trees in the winter when the beetles are inactive and to cover all wounds immediately to stop infection. That generally stops the above ground transmission. You can't do much about the below ground spread unless you get really serious. I've seen people use a backhoe to dig a trench around thier trees. The trench breaks the root connection and stops the spread.

[Paul Prescott]

Dennis - Yup. Everything you posted is what the arborist told me. Our trees were pruned last year and the cuts were not sealed. In general cuts should not be sealed EXCEPT in oaks and other susceptible trees. Probably became infected via the beetles, so small they are wind born.

I'm going to try to salvage some of the larger trunks, use some for firewood, and just junk the rest.

If any of y'all live near me (Killeen-Copperas Cove, TX area) and want to see what I have, let me know. Probably won't be cutting the dead ones down until lare Fall or early Spring.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Paul, I grew up in Copperas Cove. My folks lost all the oaks on their place about 20 years ago. Some of those trees were 6' in diameter--it was a total disaster. They lived out in the country so those trees just sat there like skeletons for years and years. People were just recognizing oak wilt was a problem, but didn't know much about it.

[Mike Ramsey]

Dennis, of course your right, I got my info from Bill the guy that had 13 trees die, the tree guy he called out gave him that info. went to Texasoakwilt.org and copied this from one of their pages:
(Oak wilt, one of the most destructive tree diseases in the United States</ST1:p,is killing </FONT><FONT size=3>trees in central <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:country-region><ST1<IMG class=inlineimg title=<font face=" /><st1:State><ST1:p<FONT face=TimesNewRomanPSMT>Texas</FONT></ST1:p</st1:State><FONT face=TimesNewRomanPSMT> at epidemic proportions. Oak wilt is an infectious disease caused by the fungus </FONT><I><FONT face=TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT>Ceratocystis fagacearum</FONT></I><FONT face=TimesNewRomanPSMT>, which invades and disables the water-conducting system in susceptible trees. All oaks are susceptible to oak wilt to some degree, but some </FONT></FONT>species are affected more than others. Red oaks, particularly Spanish oak (<I>Q</I>. <I>buckleyi</I>), Shumard oak, and blackjack oak, are extremely susceptible and may play A unique role in the establishment of new oak wilt infections. White oaks, including post oak, bur oak, and chinkapin oak, are resistant to the fungus and rarely die from oak wilt. Live oaks are intermediate in susceptibility to oak wilt, but are most seriously affected due to their tendency to grow from root sprouts and form vast interconnected root systems that allow movement (or spread) of the fungus between adjacent trees. The successful management of oak wilt depends on correct diagnosis and an understanding of how the pathogen spreads between different oak species.) Apparently this is a big problem here!

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Mike, Live oaks link their roots, that's how whole groves of live oaks can die all at once. You can see that in many places north of San Antonio.

Here's some info from the City of Austin's web page.

Underground -- It is very common for oak trees to establish a system of interconnected roots. These connected roots allow the oak wilt fungus to move from tree-to-tree, often leading to patches of infected and dead trees. In fact, once one oak becomes infected, the disease can radiate outward, spreading to any oaks that share a common root system. This pattern of disease movement can be compared to the ripples of water that appear after dropping a rock in a pond. On average, oak wilt will move at a rate of 75 to 100 feet per year. In urban areas with numerous live oaks, the disease can move from one house lot to another each year.

[Paul Prescott]

On my property I have one post oak in the front and one in the back, totally unaffected while 39 live oaks died within a month. Now I'm investigating replacements - something hardy, does well in Tx, moderately fast growing, tall but not giant. Thinking about redbud, sumac, and some disease resistant elm varieties. No more easily and rapidly killed oaks!

[John Hart]

I have a 5' diameter X 70' tall Elm in my front yard thats held up pretty good. I could ship it to you.:)

[Dennis McDonaugh]

On my property I have one post oak in the front and one in the back, totally unaffected while 39 live oaks died within a month. Now I'm investigating replacements - something hardy, does well in Tx, moderately fast growing, tall but not giant. Thinking about redbud, sumac, and some disease resistant elm varieties. No more easily and rapidly killed oaks!

Paul, you have lots of choices in native or adapatable trees for your area. Chiniquipin, Burr and Monterrey oaks will all do well and Cedar Elms are pretty trees but they will grow very tall if they have regular access to water. Redbud will need irrigation so I'd think twice about planting them--we never had any luck with them in your area.

[Greg Tatum]

If you have a few hundred bf you should be able to find a sawyer who will do the job for shares....no/little money changes hands....would be a shame not to get some lumber outta that many trees.

Regards,
Greg

[Dev Emch]

So Dennis...

What is the regiment of chemical warfare to combat this pest?

It seems each year we hear of some new boggaa arriving here and going after yet another one of our majestic trees. I have cut down dozens of ponderosas that died from beetle kill. The fungus actually permeates the tree in a very long drawn out death cycle. This allows the fungus which produes a lovely blue stain to work its way through the tree. I guess you could call this spalting. As cool as it is, we have very disciplined instructions on how to handle this wood to contain the beetle pest and kill the larva and the fungus. I am a bit curious that no one has mentioned the larva and how the larva life cycle affects the trees.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Interesting you should ask about that Dev. As far as I know, there is no effort underway to control the beetle. Cutting down and mulching the affected tree is the preferred method of controlling the spread of oak wilt. Red Oaks are the single exception to this protocol. Most cities have ordnances requiring the immediate removal and burial of infected Red Oaks as they are the primary source of the spore that spreads the disease.

Pruning should be done in the winter when the beetles are dormant so there is little chance of spreading the fungus.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Paul,
Finally heard back from my brother. The product you need is called TimBore. It's a borate product, and comes in powdered form. You mix it up in a solution, and spray it onto the sawed lumber. It needs to dry, and you then apply a second coat. After that's dried, you're good to go.

Good luck - hope you make the best of a bad situation.

[Paul Prescott]

Thanks Maurice - will get some and hope for the best