A good "all-purpose" handsaw

[Harold Burrell]

What would be the ppi of a good "all-purpose" handsaw? Right now, I am looking for something to cut the joinery for my roubo bench.

[David Weaver]

12, if you intend to cut smaller things with it later. 10 or 11 if it will only ever be used to cut big things.

[paul cottingham]

I bow to David's expertise, but my most used handsaw is my 8pt x-cut.

[Chris Griggs]

For joinery an about 12ppi and 14" long back saw can do a lot of work.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I did every saw-cut on my bench with an crosscut 11 point, around 22 inches long, and a rip 7 point that's maybe 24 or 25 inches. I still don't have a backsaw larger than Gramercy carcase saws, and while I've been moving a bit to japanese saws for some joinery, I still cut a whole lot with these panel saws - that 7pt rip has gotten used for a lot of tenons.

[Chris Griggs]

Josh and Paul do make good points...especially for large scale joinery like a workbench. I cut most the joinery on my workbench with panel saws and my backsaws saw little use on it. For furniture joinery I'd rather use a backsaw, but you sure can do a lot with a couple mid sized panel saws.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Honestly, though - if I was making a big slab bench again, I'd use power tools where ever possible if I had the option (I didn't then and don't know) and just the damn thing over with.

[steven c newman]

Mine262259262260262261The three I use the most, right now. Middle one is resting on a 1x12. Just got in a nice BIG 5ppi rip saw.

[John Sanford]

What about a bowsaw for the joinery. Any thoughts on why it might or might not be a good choice from those with experience using them?

[Jim Koepke]

For long rips my 6ppi seems to be the best. I had one at about 4 or 5ppi. it was faster, but a lot more work.

For crosscuts my favorite is 11ppi. For fast and rough crosscuts I have one at about 8ppi.

For my back saws most of them are at about 13ppi.

A good all purpose handsaw might come in at around 8-12ppi with a rake at about 9º and a little bit of fleam, ~5-10º. It wouldn't leave the smoothest crosscuts or the fastest rips but it would be able to do the job.

jtk

[Chris Fournier]

For bench joinery I'd use a panel CC and Rip. John Sanford is too cool for school! Bow saws are not a widely accepted North American phenomenon. They are however the bees knees and work very well for joinery. While you may think that the panel saw is for crude work; the fact of the matter is that the large plate on a panel saw guides your cut and allows you to saw to the line with remarkable accuracy.

[Mike Holbrook]

Harold,

I started with the same idea, maybe one good saw. Then I discovered the world of hand/panel saws at the auction house, whose name we do not speak. Over the last couple years I have acquired maybe 15 saws. Around 6 of those saws will end up serving my home shop. Four or so will go to the building that my home based business operates from. The other 5 probably need some major work to bring into usable order. I plan to have 3-4 crosscuts 7-12 PPI and 3-4 rip saws 5-8 PPI in my main shop & maybe two Cross cut & two rip saws with larger teeth at my business. I do construction as well as woodworking, speed trumps precision sometimes in construction.

Tage Frid wrote several influential works on woodworking that I suspect were a major influence on the return to hand tools we are now experiencing. Tage was a major proponent of bow saws. I had the pleasure of attending some of Tage's classes at Highland Woodworking. He made sawing with a bowsaw look very simple and fast. I think most people find the learning curve a little longer for the bow saw though. Tage also blamed the relative lack of popularity of bowsaws on the perception that they are harder to use. Certainly, bowsaws can cut curves better than panel/hand saws. I suspect that they are easier to use two handed too, once the technique is mastered. I think a little research on SMC will reveal that a large % of those on these pages who use bow saws use them for cutting curves. I finally ordered a 400MM saw from Wood Joy Tools. I will have both a "jigging" blade for curves and a standard blade, both Japanese Turbo blades. Tools For Working Wood offers 12" bowsaws and bow saw kits/parts. TFWW offers a very narrow, "jigging" blade for their saws. I opted for a little larger bowsaw as I already had a New Concepts saw that uses coping saw blades.

[Mike Allen1010]

Hi Harold,

You already got lots of good advice here from our fellow Creekers.


Regarding your original question about a good "all-purpose" handsaw, I wanted to share my observations as a guy who started out with all power tools and has been all handtools last 15 years.

Fundamentally the work you're asking a handsaw to do is pretty significantly different; rough crosscutting thick, damp stock versus finished crosscutting 4/4 cabinet grade material, ripping 8/4 softer stock versus ripping 4/4 KD hardwoods, etc. You could set up one saw with a "hybrid" configuration that could do some sawing tasks fairly adequately, but the work will be a lot faster, more accurate and more fun with a basic set of handsaw's configured for specific tasks -- this is why preindustrial woodworkers used.

Setting aside joinery saws for the moment (finer pitch, backed saws), IMHO the threehand saws that see the most work are:

1) A course (7-8 PPI), 26 inch long crosscut saw. This is ideal for breaking down those 14 foot lengths of rough lumber when you get back to the shop. Much easier than trying to horse that stock through a stationary tablesaw/chop saw.

2) A finer pitch (11-12PPI), 24-26" inch crosscut saw for final dimensioning of glued up panels, furniture components etc. With a little practice you can achieve accuracy comparable to a tablesaw and leave a very smooth sawn surface that requires little or no cleanup at the shooting board.

3) A 26-28" inch, 5 PPI ripsaw is the standard ripsaw that works very well for almost every ripping task. A coarser, 4 PPI ripsaw would be better for >8/4 and construction grade soft woods and a 6PPI ripsaw is ideal for 4/4 KD and really hard species of wood --leaves a smoother surface that requires less cleanup with the jointer plane.

Once you've use these three saws for a little while, you will quickly learn whether you need/want other saws/tooth configurations specific up specifically for the kind of work you do most often. With these three I think you can do virtually everything in most typical non-joinery woodworking tasks. It's nice to have individual saws that are set up for specific tasks (softwoods versus hardwoods, etc.), but not necessary -- fair warning it's a very slippery slope!

I'm sure there are lots of other posts about hand saws specifically for joinery. For me,The three that get the most used are: 16-14 PPI dovetail saw, and two 12-14" 10 saws -- 12 PPI crosscut and nine -- 11 PPI rip configurations will get you through most every joinery task.

The Roubo bench is a unique case because you need to saw deep tenons on the legs that are Equivalent in length to the thickness of your bench top. Frequently these cuts are beyond the cutting depth capacity of most backsaws. You can get a larger tenon saw with a 4-5 inch wide plate, or could use a finer pitch 10-12 PPI full size or panel saw. A finer pitch ripsaw would be ideal, but you can easily make these cuts with a crosscut saw.

This is just my opinion based on what works for me and I hope it's helpful. I'm sure others will have different preferences etc. I would encourage you to start with one sharp, well tuned handsaw and see if it fits with your style of work and if you enjoy using it. I'm betting you will, and then the warning about the handsaw "slippery slope" should be in full effect!

All the best, Mike

All the best, Mike