How Many Of You Go Guardless......

[Corey Hallagan]

I think I will really like my new tablesaw alot, all the power it had compared to the craftsman I had but the splitter/guard is a piece of crap. About 6 different screws and bolts to adjust and it still won't line up. I am thinking about getting one of those drop down into those that just pop up out of the throat plate and go guardless. I have never ever done this, do any of you here go guardless?

Corey

[David Fried]

I'm guard-less at the moment but it's not something I'm proud of. Adding an overhead guard with dust collection is a goal for this summer.

The guard that came with my ancient unisaw was bent beyond use. I removed it and added the MJ splitter. That's one thing I don't want to go without.

It doesn't bother me with the regular blade but I miss it when using the dado set. Not to mention the guard just makes me feel better. One summer job in college was in a factory where I ripped sheets of plywood in half on a small tablesaw with no guard or splitter. I didn't have any problems but I heard my replacement wasn't as lucky. I don't think I want to push my luck.

[Todd Davidson]

Guardless with aftermarket removable splitter.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I've never used one since the day I tried to use the one on my Ridgid 2424 back in 2000. I learned to use power tools without guards. I do use push sticks and splitters, but no overhead guards. I wouldn't mind having an overarm guard someday, I think that's the ultimate blade guard for a TS. My SCMS has it disconnected since the treated lumber screws them up bad. If it weren't for that, it'd still be on the saw.

I know this won't be the PC/popular response, but it's mine and I'm stickin' to it. I won't get into a big discussion about it either, just suffice to say they are usually not for me generally.

[Cecil Arnold]

I'm ashamed to admit that I am guardless, but do have the Bes. splitter that I'm pretty good at using, would also like to upgrade to an overhead guard soon. If you've read Scott Coffeldts sp? post on kickback of 1/4" ply, I can tell you from experience that it hurts, even if you only get some dppe purple brusing.

[Dev Emch]

Who Me? Ahhhh, I plead the fifth on the grounds that answering this question can further incriminate me.

[Dev Emch]

That reminds me. Anyone got a Martin T-17 guard for sale? How about a T-17 mitre gage? Both are very rare in martin circles.

[Warren White]

Corey,
Like some of the others that posted, I must admit I don't use my blade guard very often. I have a Delta Unisaw and purchased a Delta Uniguard after I purchased the saw. I don't use it as often as I should because I don't feel like I can use my push sticks (or, gasp...my hands) effectively when the guard is down.

That said, I will not make a through cut without my splitter in place. I bought a Delta splitter (not the disappearing type) just after I got myself whacked real hard with a kick-back. That is a very important safety item I will not do without.

I don't recommend what I do regarding the blade guard, but you asked the question....

Be safe,
Warren

[Mark Singer]

I never use one...I want to see and hear what is going on...I am not suggesting this is best for everyone though

[Frank Pellow]

I never even bothered to instal the factory guard and splitter on my new General 650. Rather, I installed and Micro Jig Splitter and I use various push sticks and featherboards. In particular, I reccomend the Micro Jig GRR-Ripper.

In the long term I might build or purchase an overarm guard with duest control.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I used to operate my table saw without a guard. Then, one evening about 11 years ago I put my left thumb smack into the blade cutting some small trim pieces. It was my own fault, and I was not using the push stick I should have been using. I am quite sure if the guard had been in place, I would not have had the accident. I now use a Biesemeyer removeable splitter and an Excalibur overarm guard. Fool me once...

[JayStPeter]

I have a removable splitter on my Unisaw that is always on when not dadoing. The Excalibur (now = Exactor) guard is on less and less these days. It just seems to get in the way and the DC on it is next to useless. I'll be trying to come up with a better solution later in the year.

Jay

[Dave Wright #2]

This is a surprising thread. Most times when someone asks the guard question everyone who goes to the trouble of using guards posts. Everyone else sits out in embarassment, though they probably outnumber the guard users 10:1. It's fine for anyone to choose to not use a guard, but not wise for them to recommend same to a fellow woodworker.

The guard on my Delta Contractor Saw was flimsy and inconvenient. The first time it came off for a non-through cut it didn't go back on. The guards on my SawStop are well built and easy to switch between. I use whichever of them is the correct choice (riving knife or full guard) for every cut. There is no substitute for quality guards. I should have checked into aftermarket guards for my Delta. Fortunately I didn't get cut or hit by kickback during the dozen years I used it. In your case, I would look into guard options.

[Joe Mioux]

I use my guard when cutting sheet goods, especially 4x8's. When cutting other wood I generally remove the guard.


Joe

[John Hart]

Long ago, my guard nearly caused an accident that really scared me. It was because it was such an impediment. From that time, I've not used one. But I'm also very cautious.

[craig carlson]

Haven't had the guard on since I bought my last two saws, I do use my board buddies all the time though.
Craig

[Ken Waag]

I find the stock guards on today's tablesaws to be more of a danger than a safety device. They don't line up well. They are difficult to remove and replace which greatly lessens their use. They are bulky and reduce your vision. They trap pieces, they act as obstacles to smooth feeding and to the use of push sticks and other safety devices. I never used the Guards on my Delta Contrator's saw or my Jet Cabinet saw. And I am safety conscious. I do like the idea of covering the blade, but it must avoid the pitfalls above.

Some of the aftermarket overhead guards are a big improvement as they needn't be removed for non thru cuts. The throat plate splitters are great in that they can be pulled off and pushed back on in a second.

I just got my new SawStop TS and the riving knife and the guard look quite useable so I may be able to become a guard user. They also have a quick release lever, so they are removable and interchangable in seconds. I'm anxious to see how well they work.

In addition to technologies like the SawStop we need user friendly guards, or as this thread would indicate, they're not going to be used.

[markgoodall]

Like most, I think the OEM guard that came with my Unisaw was a piece of junk. But I would never use a tablesaw without a guard, so I bought a Delta Deluxe Uniguard, which is great. I always use the guard. If I can't cut it with the guard in place, then I find an different tool to make the cut.

Happy Woodworking!

[Corey Hallagan]

Well, this really suprises me. I thought I would get the old " WHAT!!! NO GUARD,..... YOU FOOL!!!!!! The splitter and guard on my delta is a terrible design. The old craftsman never bothered me and slipped on and off easily, lined but up easy etc. This one is ridiculous. You can't lift it up at all and it just come crashing down. Anyway, Iwant to get one of the delta splitters that installs in and has the anti kickback pawls on it.
How many guys here use the Grripper push block. It is interesting, is it money well spent? I have a couple push sticks.

Corey

[Jon Baren]

Hello Corey,

The guard that came with my saw was very inadequate. So,I bought the overhead guard from PSI. I bought it for $149. on sale. I don’t think I could have made one cheaper, materials plus time and the others that are sold are way too much $$$, IMO. I also use the MJ splitter with my saw. I like the overhead guard for the dust collection as well as a safety area. i.e. keep hand away from this area!! The only thing that I don’t like is the hood. It is a little flimsy. When it breaks I will make a new custom one.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

[QUOTE=Warren White]Corey,
Like some of the others that posted, I must admit I don't use my blade guard very often. I have a Delta Unisaw and purchased a Delta Uniguard after I purchased the saw. I don't use it as often as I should because I don't feel like I can use my push sticks (or, gasp...my hands) effectively when the guard is down.

That said, I will not make a through cut without my splitter in place. I bought a Delta splitter (not the disappearing type) just after I got myself whacked real hard with a kick-back. That is a very important safety item I will not do without.

I don't recommend what I do regarding the blade guard, but you asked the question....

Be safe,

That's exactly my problem with the Unigard. I have so much trouble using push sticks with it that it drives me nuts. I'm going to try to make some more with more curve to it to get under the arm. I feel I'm working very unsafe WITH IT because of the interference with push blocks. Is that weird or what? Any ideas here would be much appreciated.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Like most, I think the OEM guard that came with my Unisaw was a piece of junk. But I would never use a tablesaw without a guard, so I bought a Delta Deluxe Uniguard, which is great. I always use the guard. If I can't cut it with the guard in place, then I find an different tool to make the cut.

Happy Woodworking!

Mark, Please tell me how you use push sticks with the Unigard? I can't figure it out and I feel less safe with the guard. It really gets in the way IMHO. Alan

[Dev Emch]

Those who looked at my belated shaper gloat saw how much of a guard I use. That black thingie sticking up spins at 6000 RPM and has four very sharp knives.

Guards and riving knives are not the same thing. The problem with a guard is that it is like your helping yourself to the wendys all you can eat salad bar. You have to contort yourself to reach under the sneeze guard to select your item. You may think you *KNOW* where that blade is but you dont. I need to know *EXACTLY* where that table saw blade is at any moment. The feedback of its local feeds the table saw mentality. If you even forget about that blade location for even a second, you deserve a spanking!

And jigs are not just for routers. When you cut tiny items or skinny long items or items that are 1/4 inch or so thick, you should use a jig. An MDF or ply affair with a couple of destaco clamps. If you need to use a chicken stick, then by all means, USE IT! Also note that when using a chicken stick, you may wish to push on the item being cut from above while pushing it into the fence. A little bit of pressure goes a long way to keep the item firmly on the table and from yawing into the blade. Yawing === Kickback. Let me repeat that... YAWING CAUSES KICKBACK. Any Questions!

[Jim Benante]

This is a good set of posts. Interesting and insightful. I am definitely very scared of having an accident. I try to practice the best safety techniques I can learn and the SMC has been great for providing info and experiences of all you who have been at this for awhile.

I'm new to using table saws and after reading posts on SMC bought a MJ splitter and two Grr rippers before ever cutting a board. In fact I bought them before I bought my blade for the saw. I never even tried to install my blade guard. Am I playing with fire?

I had one kickback while dadoing a groove in a 3/4 in. piece of maple. The board was about 5 inches wide and the 3/8 groove was to be cut on the 3/4 i. side. The board stuck on the end of the dado insert and I tried to push through it. I was standing on the side of the saw and had a great grip on the board. It threw my hands back and I never lost grip of the board. Only damage was to the tenon on the end of the board. That was an easy fix. Two very small wedges glued on the tenon worked like a charm. Thank God my hands stayed on top of the board and away fron the blade.

[Bart Leetch]

I have 2 guards for my Older Unisaw & they both say Gripper on them. I figure that if I have a hold of a Gripper & the blade is under it the blade is guarded.

I have a Exaktor guard thats ok for large or wide cuts or sheet goods but for small stuff its dangerous I haven't mounted the Exaktor guard to the ceiling again since I rearranged the shop for my Unisaw.

I plan on getting the MJ splitter I am still using thin kerf blades but hope to get some regular thickness blades in the future. Which MJ splitters would I need both thin & thick kerf blades?

I make my own ZCI from polypropylene cutting boards that I can buy from ACE the ZCI cost around $3 each with allen set screws to set the height.

[Cory Bennett]

I have 2 guards for my Older Unisaw & they both say Gripper on them. I figure that if I have a hold of a Gripper & the blade is under it the blade is guarded.

Interesting thought. What advantages does a guard have over a Gripper? ... besides the dust collection possibilities. I am a happy Gripper user, but for some reason have it in the back of my mind that I *need* a guard. Maybe that is because Kelly Mehler suggested everybody should have one in his excellent Table Saw Book ... but I doubt Mehler had a chance to check out the Gripper before his book went to the publishers.

I suppose a Gripper is not useful for ripping sheet goods, so I can see a guard having safety advantages there ... any others?

-Cory

[Ian Barley]

Never make a cut without one. Always use a push stick as well. Like Mark - if I can't make the cut without a guard I find another way to do it.

[Dale Rodabaugh]

I very seldom use my guard.It is a pain in the a//.I try to be very careful.:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Jim Knauss]

one of the main reasons I recently upgraded from my trusty old Craftsman to the new Hybred Craftsman table saw was for its safty features. I see myself getting a tad more careless in my old age it seems. No misshaps yet but dont want any either. That blade just sitting there has always bothered me.....

Jim Knauss

[Alan Turner]

I use no guard on my Uni, but oft use the MJ splitter. I always use a pusher, which sits over the top of the board to keep the back end on the table, per the article several years ago by steve Latta in FWW on ripping very narrow stock, such as 1/8". The blade cuts the pusher, and they get replaced often. Plywood, mdf if I have it around (rarely), or a straight grained wood such as mahogany. Whatever.

[Tim Morton]

Delta removable splitter and no guard...would like to buy a drop down guard/DC one day..but for now i am just VERY careful around the blade.

[Matt Meiser]

I have the Biesemeyer guard and use it for almost all cuts. It can get in the way on small cuts, but I've made some push sticks that help solve the problem and I've learned to plan other cuts so that its not. The Bies guard, and I assume others, can be adjusted to move the guard side to side with respect to the blade. This allows me to maximize the space between the guard and the fence for example when ripping smaller pieces. If that space is too small to get a push stick in there, I generally don't feel safe making the cut anyway and figure out a different way to do it.

The added benefit is the dust collection which is very effective for all but a few cuts (mostly where you are just trimming a tiny bit off an edge.

[Ken Waag]

Good point by Bart. I admited earlier to not using the stock guards. I do use the grrrrrippers a lot and am finding more and more applications. I think of them as guards that stay on my hands rather than the blade. I'm well aware that accidents can happen in any circumstance, but I figure it's going to be pretty hard to get my hands near the blade with those blocks in my fists. Another reason I do not use the stock guards, as they would prevent use of another great safety device like the Grrrippers. IMHO,
Ken

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I use a guard on my table saw. It may be just a peice of plastic, but anything between a whirling blade and my fingers is something I want to leave :)

[Frank Pellow]

...
I had one kickback while dadoing a groove in a 3/4 in. piece of maple. The board was about 5 inches wide and the 3/8 groove was to be cut on the 3/4 i. side. The board stuck on the end of the dado insert and I tried to push through it. I was standing on the side of the saw and had a great grip on the board. It threw my hands back and I never lost grip of the board. Only damage was to the tenon on the end of the board. That was an easy fix. Two very small wedges glued on the tenon worked like a charm. Thank God my hands stayed on top of the board and away fron the blade.
I no longer cut dados with a table saw. I think that it is much safer to cut them with a guided router.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I use the TS for casework....vertical rabbets and dados...but for all crosscut dados, I get out the router.

[Dev Emch]

Many folks moan about the demise and obsolesence of the Radial Arm Saw. Cutting dados on a RAS is pure simplicity and joy. I bought a DeWalt GE with a 7.5 HP motor in very poor shape for $125 dollars. Mostly cosmetic in nature, it now looks sweet after a bit of cleaning up. Nothing beats a RAS for cutting cabinet dados. It is also incredible when cutting huge tenons in massive beams like those used for timber frame work. Here is one case where a RAS is actually a safter approach esp. if your work is clamped down. And its massively faster and more accurate than having to set up a router guide. For repeat items, I set up fence stops and go. For one item, its a draw. For several items, I have you beat hands down.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I wouldn't mind having an RAS again if I could find a good one that can be set at a true 90*, but that's hard when most of them have been abused over the years.

[Jim Becker]

The factory guard went in the trash when I bought my saw. It was replaced with an overarm guard (with dust collection) and a Biesemeyer snap-in splitter. The splitter gets used 100% of the time that I'm making through-cuts. The overarm guard gets used when it's not going to interfere with the cut, primarily for dust collection of the stuff that comes off the top of the blade. IMHO, the splitter is the most important part of this arrangement and I highly recommend you use some form of splitter "all the time" for through cuts.

[John Renzetti]

I'll have to admit when I had the unisaw I took the guard and splitter off. Since I've had the slider with the overarm guard and built in riving knife I'd say the guard is used about 99%.
take care,
John

[Greg Narozniak]

Guardless here but as others have I will be purchasing a removable splitter very very soon!

[Jay Knepper]

I did try, but soon gave up on using the stock guard for my Powermatic 64A. It prevented seeing the blade, prevented narrow rips, and was cumbersome to remove, store and replace. I did always use splitters of some sort, and featherboards and a Grripper when appropriate.

The guard/splitter with my SawStop is clear, narrow, compact and removable in a few seconds. So now I do use a guard. The anti kickback pawls, however, are gone.

[Frank Pellow]

The guard/splitter with my SawStop is clear, narrow, compact and removable in a few seconds. So now I do use a guard. The anti kickback pawls, however, are gone.
The best safety device on the Sawtop is its riving knife. I certainly wish that my General came with one.

[Earl Kelly]

Gentlemen, I don't use a guard. I make too many varied cuts on the saw that a guard will not work with, such as tenoning, cutting coves, etc. I do use board buddies for most ply cuts. You MUST know where your hands are and the BLADE at all times and what will or can happen. I've had 2 kickbacks in 30 yrs.

I was taught at a young age to respect power tools, not to fear, but to understand what it can do and how to be safe as possible. My worst injuries have been from hand tools or unplugged power tools, sliced the end of my finger tip off replacing planer blades.

Everyone has to work within their own safety concerns, I would not try to convince anyone to work without a guard. This you must decide for yourself.

[Dino Makropoulos]

No guards.
No splitters.
No feather boards.
No push sticks.
No dado blades.
No out feed and in feed tables.
No overhead guards and tubes.
No mobile bases.
No sliding tables.
No dedicated space.
No 100 jigs and gadgets .
No panel saw
No jointer
No radial arm saw.
....No Barracudas.

And... No complimentary tools to all the above
No wasted money,space,wood and digits.

Hi Guys.
I'm not trying to take away ALL your tools and toys. :D
Just to informed the new woodworkers that is another way :)
Go ahead. Hate me now.This is a natural reaction. :D
YCF Dino.

Oh yes. And no splinters either. Don't you guys hate that? :mad:

Ken. Help!!!
The good news is that more and more schools are using the "Dead Wood Concept"
and the SMC play a big part of this.

Thank you guys.

[Jim Dannels]

I am using a Royobi BT3100 and still have the factory guard on it.
So far have seen very little need to remove it. The Riving knife is one of it`s best features. I can not say the same for the kickback pawls(they are a pain and may go soon). I think I will be installing a Shark Guard soon.

[Ken Salisbury]

The only guard I have used for 60 years is the one between my ears :) :D

[Harry Goodwin]

Corey: Well ,we have a lot more that do what I do without a guard. It's the fact that for most of us we fear the guard more than its protection. I am like the rest of you but use an abundance of push sticks and hold downs. I have great respect for that blade and if it appears to be getting in trouble back off. I also stand behind it as I was taught if you stand behind it for control you will probably never have to duck. Harry

[lou sansone]

riving knife but no guard on the TS

lou

[John Gregory]

I do not use a guard or splitter YET. I just purchased some ZCI and the MJ splitter and will be setting those up this week. I use hold down rollers like these shown in the picture. I use push sticks and Grippers. I just bought a second Gripper last week on sale at WoodCraft. I know there are users that think Grippers are ill advised, but I love mine and feel safer using them. In addition to the above safety devices, I am VERY careful. My wife works with me in the shop all of the time and we remind each other of the importance of safety. I am very careful on the height of the blade above the wood. Freud recommends a half of tooth. Half of the carbide tooth.
Working with power tools are hazardous. Most of all be alert, and never think that:
"it can NEVER happen to me" Take the few seconds to use your safety devices, to grab a push stick, to set up your gripper. I love this forum. Like you, I visit others, but I have noticed that here at SMC, everyone is so professional in their behavior and comments. I never see any rudeness here at SMC. SMC truly has the most gracious and professional members.

John

[Steve Cox]

I went to the last woodworking show with one of my major intentions being to look at the Gripper system. I was somewhat disappointed. The guy doing the demos for the system was making some outrageous claims about things that couldn't be safely done on a TS without the Gripper (like running 1/8" edging). I was also very suprised to see that there was no "finger" on the rear of the gripper to make sure that the wood was captured. The system relies on the rubber to hold the wood. In my experience rubber gets dusty and loses its' grip. I'm not trying to knock the system but I definitely have some questions about its' efficacy, especially long term. I'd like to hear more from some of the owners of the Gripper. BTW, I don't use guards, am extremely careful, and have never had a kickback (knock on wood:p ).

[Michael Gabbay]

I use the factory guard on my Delta contractor when I'm working with sheet goods. I don't like reaching across the table handling large sheets without it there. I'm planning on making some modifications to it that I saw on the net. Where it attaches at the blade at the end of the table I was planning on cutting the plate so it can be slid off like the Merlin.

Mike

[Frank Pellow]

I use the factory guard on my Delta contractor when I'm working with sheet goods. I don't like reaching across the table handling large sheets without it there. I'm planning on making some modifications to it that I saw on the net. Where it attaches at the blade at the end of the table I was planning on cutting the plate so it can be slid off like the Merlin.

Mike
The safest thing you could do is to stop cutting large sheets on your saw and tp use a Guided Circular Saw System (GCSS) instead. A GCSS is faster, safer, more accurate, and (often) cheaper than a table saw.

[Steve Cox]

Frank, You could use a sliding table also. I recall you use to have a euro combo machine. Did that work for you as far as crosscutting sheet goods?

[Doug Shepard]

How Many Of You Go Guardless?

Well after being hit in the groin with a fastball many years ago, I always wear a cup now. :eek:

Oops - wrong forum.:D

Seriously - I'm guilty of leaving the guard off my TS the vast majority of the time. I'm eventually planning on putting on one of the aftermarket splitters though, and I always use push-sticks and zero-clearance inserts. The only TS accident I've ever had was due to not having a ZC insert. Still have all 10, but it was a painful lesson. I picked up the Gripper a while back too, but haven't had a chance to use it yet.

[Frank Pellow]

Frank, You could use a sliding table also. I recall you use to have a euro combo machine. Did that work for you as far as crosscutting sheet goods?
No Steve your recollection is wrong. I certainly considered purchasing one but, in then end, chose not to do so. One of the biggest reasons I did not buy such a saw is the fact that my GCSS is so good that I couyld not justify the big bugs for a saw with a good sliding table.

[Michael Gabbay]

Frank -

I agree with the 4x8 sheet. I do use a guide and circular saw for those. But when you get down to more managable sizes I still don't like reaching near a running blade.

Mike

[scott spencer]

I go guardless frequenlty but usually use a splitter when ripping. I'm in the process of modifying the guard on my new 22124....hate the original guard, but the splitter's nice. If I can get the guard where it's tolerable, I'd prefer to have it there.

[Bob Nieman]

I use the guard, splitter and kickback pawls for all through cuts. I am very new to woodworking and have promised the LOML that I would keep all of my fingers. It isn't too hard to take off when necessary (and even easier to put back on). I have to saw that it can be a real pain with cutting narrow pieces. Eventually I hope to get some Grrrippers and build/buy a router table for (among other things) dados.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I always use the guard and splitter when I can--more to stop kickback than keep my hands out of the blade. I feel nekked without it!

[nic obie]

I don't use a guard on my MM slider but it does have a riving knife that I never have to take off.

I don't use guards on my chop saw and skill saw as I need to see the cut line. Looking at those spinning bare blades scares the bejesus out of me. I feel being scared of the tools has made me a safer woodworker.

This is just my way of doing things. I'm not recomending that anyone else does the same.

[Keith Christopher]

Guardless here. splitter w/ Anti-kickback.

[Chip Olson]

One of the many things I like about my Craftsman hybrid is that the splitter/blade guard is stupid easy to put on and take off. One thing I dislike is that the leading edge of the guard is angled in such a way that 3/4" stock (and guess what I cut most often) tends to hang up on it. It's not enough of an irritant to override my desire to keep my fingers in factory spec, however. On my "eventually" list is to upgrade to an overarm guard (probably ceiling-mounted, since the ceiling's <7' high).

[Dave Wright #2]

The guard/splitter with my SawStop is clear, narrow, compact and removable in a few seconds. So now I do use a guard. The anti kickback pawls, however, are gone.

Jay,

Regarding the SawStop anti-kickback pawls, it sounds like you took them off but still use the full guard for non-through cuts. Correct? Is that because the pawls scratch your stock when the blade is set only slightly above the top of the wood that is being cut? I have found that too. For now, when the scratches would be seen in the finished piece, I use the riving knife or work with the blade about 1" through the work (which reduces the pawl force to below scratching pressure).

I have a long term solution in the works though - a recutting of the pawls so that they work better for the correct blade height (just above the wood) and have adjustable spring tension. SawStop has been good enough to send me a set of pawls to butcher for this experiment. Have you had similar thoughts?

Regards, Dave

[Rich Konopka]

No Guard. MJ and the Gripper. SawStop on the distant horizon.

[Mark Carlson]

I just got a General 650. I didnt install the blade guard. I do use a MJ splitter though and plan to buy a Excalibur blade guard.

[Ellen Benkin]

I try to be as safe as possible and, like many others, I tried to use the guard when I first got my table saw. But it is too much of a pain in the neck and seems more like a hazard than a help. So, it is history. I do use the splitter and anti-kickback pawl, though, even though they are also a pain in the neck. I had one kickback and that was enough for me.

[Harry Goodwin]

I already coinfessed no guard but a careful operator. I have a cheap safety switch that some may want to attatch to their saws. I found it ages ago in some magazine.
I own an old AMT TS and it has a switch on the front with a green on button and a red off button. One above the other. You mount an ordinary hinge as far above the switch as practical.
Mount on other leaf of the hinge a long piece of wood reching near the floor.
Bore a larger hole so you can reach the on button.
At the point of the stop button dado a narrow piece of hardwood across
the board and at the same level as the stop button.
Voila and a knee kick, a foot kick a body bump and it shuts the saw off leaving your hands to take charge of whatever problem has developed. Harry

PS: You need a narrow piece of wood begtween the TS and leaf to balance.

[Brian Hale]

I never had one on my old Craftsman contractor saw, i got it free and it didn't have one. When i worked as a cabinet maker for a few years i never saw one in the shop. Then when my new Bridgetank BW10LTS arrived i put the guard on and lined it up real good, cut about 3/16 off a board and it got jammed under the paws and against the blade. The guard is now where it belongs, hanging on the wall near the saw.

I do have one of those plastic splitters that go on the ZCI but haven't got around to installing it yet.....

Brian

[Frank Pellow]

Hello Corey,

The guard that came with my saw was very inadequate. So,I bought the overhead guard from PSI. I bought it for $149. on sale. I don’t think I could have made one cheaper, materials plus time and the others that are sold are way too much $$$, IMO. I also use the MJ splitter with my saw. I like the overhead guard for the dust collection as well as a safety area. i.e. keep hand away from this area!! The only thing that I don’t like is the hood. It is a little flimsy. When it breaks I will make a new custom one.
Welcome to Saw Mill Creek Jon!
In case someone has not already informeed you of this, we use our full names here at Saw Mill Creek. Please send a note to Jackie Outten informing her of your surname then she will alter your profile.

[Frank Pellow]

I'll have to admit when I had the unisaw I took the guard and splitter off. Since I've had the slider with the overarm guard and built in riving knife I'd say the guard is used about 99%.
take care,
John
John, how did you get a riving knife to work with a Unisaw. I thought that it was impossible. If you have somehow managed to do so, I certainly would like to know how because it might also work for my General 650.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Great thread. I'm surprised to see that I'm in the apparent majority -- the guardless gang. I learned to use a TS years ago without a guard. Since then, I've owned a couple of saws that had guards, but after a time or two of having a workpiece get hung up in one way or another, I've removed the guards with no regrets. I do use pushsticks and featherboards extensively, but the primary thing is that I always remain aware of where the blade is, and treat any plugged-in power tool with the same respect I give a gun. (BTW, I treat a gun -- loaded or unloaded -- very carefully.) As a guitar player, I've always been very aware of things that could damage (or remove) a finger.

I recently assembled my new Ridgid 3650 and indeed I installed the guard just to see how it goes on and off. I'll give it a try next time I'm cutting big sheets, but for the most part, I'm guard-free and still able to count to ten without removing my shoes.

Having said all that, I do plan to investigate aftermarket splitters, pawls and riving knives, based on the comments here at SMC. (Yet another thing I've learned here at the Creek.)

- Vaughn

[Simon OConnor]

I use a Deluxe Uniguard on my Unisaw. I was surprised to see a couple of posts stating that they were having trouble using push sticks with this guard. I am not sure what trouble they are having, perhaps they have an older version or it is an installation issue, but I have no problems.
I love it and use it all the time, like someone else posted with their beismeyer guard I can adjust it laterally based on how close I am getting to the blade. You can also use auxillary fences to rip thin pieces and not have to slide the fence all the way up to the guard. I even made my crosscut sled with no back support a la David Marks so I can use a crosscut sled and my guard aswell.

[Bruce Page]

Corey, I use a drop in splitter religiously, but no guard. I want to see what's going on.

[Frank Pellow]

I am finding this thread very interesting and decided to count the number of folks in the various camps. My definition of the "camps" is arbitrary and I may have placed some folks in the wrong category but, here goes:

Use a Guard All or Some of the Time: 23

Never Use a Guard: 29

Fence Sitting, In Transition, No Table Saw, or No Comment: 4
Here is a more detailed breakdown along with lists of the folks that I placed into each "camp":

Use "table mounted" guard always or almost always: 11

Ian Barley
Jim Dannels
Mark Goodall (after market)
Jim Knauss
Dennis McDonaugh
Matt Meiser
Bob Nieman
Simon Oconnor
Chip Olson
Jeff Sudmeier
Dave Wright
Use "overhead" guard always or almost always: 3

Jon B
Dave Falkenstein
John Renzetti
Use Guard (table or overhead) sometimes: 9

Jim Becker
Michael Gabbay
Joe Mioux
Dale Rodabaugh
Doug Shepard
Scott Spencer
Jay St.Peter
Alan Tolchinsky
Warren White
No guard, but always use splitter or riving knife: 16

Cecil Arnold
Jim Benante
Ellen Benkin
Mark Carlson
Keith Christopher
Todd Davidson
David Fried
Kelly Hanna
Jay Knepper
Rich Konopka
Tim Morton
Nic Obie
Bruce Page
Frank Pellow
Lou Sansone
Alan Turner
No guard but will be getting splitter soon: 5

Brian Hale
Bart Leetch
John Gregory
Vaughn McMillan
Greg Narozniak
No guard and no comment re splitter: 8

Cory Bennett
Craig Carlson
Steve Cox
John Hart
Harry Goodwin
Earl Kelly
Ken Salisbury
Mark Singer
Fence Sitting, In Transition, No Table Saw, or No Comment: 4

Dev Emch
Corey Hallagan
Dino Makropoulos
Ken Wagg

Finally, four people who never use a guard are thinking about getting an overhead guard sometime in the future. These are:

Cecil Arnold
David Fried
Kelly Hanna
Frank Pellow
If I have missinterpreted your comments so placed you in the wrong "camp", please let me know.

[Dan Owen]

I use the Penn State guard with dust extractor and MJ slitter. Works great especially if I'm doing alot of ripping. The guard moves easily out of the way if it becomes a nuisance on a particular cut.

[John Hart]

Nice list Frank....A regular statistician;)

[Frank Pellow]

Nice list Frank....A regular statistician;)
Thanks John. I have to admit that I have a Bachelor of Science degree majoring in Math and Physics and that I have both studied and applied a lot of Statistics along the way.

[Jules Dominguez]

I've had a Delta contractors saw for about 25 years and have never used the guard, for the usual reason of it being impractical. I've had the saw kerf close up to the point that it tripped the motor out, but have never had a kickback with this saw, and haven't been knowledgeable enough to even worry about kickback. As far as keeping my hands away from the blade, I haven't had a bad experience with that. I've always used push sticks for narrow workpieces.
I went to the big woodworking show in Atlanta back in January or February, whenever it was, and bought a couple of the GripTite guides with the rollers and the stainless (magnetic) auxiliary fence and now I use both of them on almost all all cuts.
It was that woodworking show that got me back into woodworking, and shortly after that I discovered (thanks to Mike Holbrook) SMC. Reading the SMC posts has made me worry a lot more about kickback, even though I've ripped a lot of boards without one, and I take extra precautions, but I still don't use a guard and don't plan to.

[Dale Thompson]

Hi Folks,
Where is your COMMON SENSE? Do ANY of you non-users have any fingers left? Are NONE of you non-users concerned about the loss of blood which can result from a lost hand? :confused:

Can any of you reckless artisans recall if I mentioned in any previous thread where I left my saw guards? :confused: I haven't seen them in YEARS! :eek: For the most part, they are a "pain in the grain"!

My safety devices are a dust mask for "dusty" operations such as the scroll saw. I usually use a face shield when I'm turning anything over 1" on the lathe and I ALWAYS use a face shield when I am within fifty feet of my grinder - lawn mower blades or lathe tools - it doesn't matter. POW! BATMAN!! :eek: :eek:

LISTEN TO THE WOOD!! STAY OUT OF THE LINE OF FIRE!! DON'T MIX WWing WITH FATIGUE, EMOTIONAL STRESS, ALCOHOL OR EGO!! :cool:

Be safe and operate within your limits. For moi, that means that I can't turn on ANY machine! :D ;) :)

Dale T.

[John Hart]

C'mon Dale...Tell us what you REALLY think!:D

[Dale Thompson]

C'mon Dale...Tell us what you REALLY think!:D

John,
Did you ever hear of Jeremiah Johnson? ;) I'm a BIG fan. Count the guards that he used against the Grizzlies and I'll match that in my shop. :cool: The only difference between Jeremiah and me is that he knew what he was doing and I don't. :o AW - who's going to quibble over the small things? ;)

Dale T.

[Mark Singer]

Since there is a detailed summary I thought I should clarify.....I use a splitter when ripping longer boards. I use board buddies unless it is sheet goods with these you can "walk around" the saw. My fence is very carefully aligned with the blade....about 1/64 th out at the rear...thus freeing the work piece. I respect the tablesaw and use push sticks for narrow boards.

[Don Baer]

My dad did wood work well into his 80's and didn't use a guard on his Table saw. When he was buried he had all ten fingures. He taught each of his sons to use proper safety and I am now 58 and still have all of my didgets intact. I don 't even know where the guard is for my TS.
MY wife bought me a new DeWalt compound miter saw a few years back and the guard is still on it but it is an entirely differant tool. The guard relies on the position of the blade not the work piece. I guess it's a matter of how you are brought up but to me a guard on a TS is more of a hazzard then common sense and proper use of the tools. I do use puch sticks and when I rip sheets I use a cirular saw with a proper fixture to guide the saw.

BTW I never used a helmet when I road a bike as a kid and never suffered a head injury either.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I don't like guards...never have. Like Mark said early in the thread, and like I've posted many times over the years, I wanna see what's going on around the blade. That said, while cleaning/rehabbing the shop (almost done! :D ), I ran across the guard/splitter for my saw (Xacta). I actually tried this one when the saw was new, but took it off after maybe 5 minutes. That's been several years now...so I carried it over to the saw and looked at it again. Then put it back in the cabinet where it belongs. :(

KC

[Bill Lewis]

...I actually tried this one when the saw was new, but took it off after maybe 5 minutes... How funny, I was just going to post the exact same thing. Back when I got my first Delta CS, I installed the guard. The POS that I had prior to the Delta had nothing, and it was scary. I thought the guard would be an improvement. Well, I think it took at most 5 minutes before I just had to take it off and that was that. As I recall you couldn't get a splitter for the Delta CS that would work with a thin kerf blade. So I never got around to fixing the problem. I experienced a few kickbacks with the CS, and I don't like'm! So when I bought the new Unisaw, I did get the Bies splitter for it. The guard went back in to its box.

Thnaks to Frank for consolidating the gathered information. I think this really could've been posted as a poll question, but I don't know how to set one of those up either.

[Carole Valentine]

Alan,
Why can't you use a push stick with your Uniguard? I use push shoes/sticks with my Uniguard all the time. If it's a cut too narrow to use a stick (not often), I do flip up the guard and use the Grippers.
I use the guard because the momentum of a kickback or other incident can pull your hand into the blade in a nano-second.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

BTW I never used a helmet when I road a bike as a kid and never suffered a head injury either.

:) That doesn't mean it was safer to not use a helmet. My cousin was in the hospital for 2 weeks when she feel rollerblading. She was not wearing a helmet either. She hit right on the back of her head, a place that would have been protected by a helmet!

You all that want to go guardless are more than welcome to, it is not our responsiblity to try to convince you otherwise.

However, I will be keeping my guard on my saw. It is see through (clear) so I can see the blade clearly. About 0.5% or less of my cuts (non-dado) will not allow the guard to be used.

(My kids will wear a helmet when riding their bike or roller blading :))

As I said it is a personal decision, mine happens to be that my guard is staying right where it is, on my saw :)

[John Miliunas]

Excalibur overarm w/dust collection, Biesy splitter, though I did remove the left side pawl and Grrrrrrrripper for small stuff. Different size/thickness push sticks, featherboards and using what little gray matter that's left between my ears!:) :cool:

[Jay Knepper]

Jay,

Regarding the SawStop anti-kickback pawls, it sounds like you took them off but still use the full guard for non-through cuts. Correct? Is that because the pawls scratch your stock when the blade is set only slightly above the top of the wood that is being cut? I have found that too. For now, when the scratches would be seen in the finished piece, I use the riving knife or work with the blade about 1" through the work (which reduces the pawl force to below scratching pressure).

I have a long term solution in the works though - a recutting of the pawls so that they work better for the correct blade height (just above the wood) and have adjustable spring tension. SawStop has been good enough to send me a set of pawls to butcher for this experiment. Have you had similar thoughts?

Regards, Dave

Dave, I took the pawls off of the full guard and use the full guard for through cuts, and the riving knife for non-through cuts. The pawls did tend to scratch the wood, and also tended to trap small pieces and to require more force when ripping.

I'm not motivated to experiment with the pawls because 1) I doubt if there is much you can do to to improve them--there will always be compromises, and 2) they have limited value. To the second point, pawls prevent what Kelly Mehler calls "pushback", not kickback. Pushback does not worry me since it is predictible and is not nearly as violent as kickback. I would rather deal with pushback than with other problems that pawls introduce.

[Frank Pellow]

:) That doesn't mean it was safer to not use a helmet. My cousin was in the hospital for 2 weeks when she feel rollerblading. She was not wearing a helmet either. She hit right on the back of her head, a place that would have been protected by a helmet!

You all that want to go guardless are more than welcome to, it is not our responsiblity to try to convince you otherwise.

However, I will be keeping my guard on my saw. It is see through (clear) so I can see the blade clearly. About 0.5% or less of my cuts (non-dado) will not allow the guard to be used.

(My kids will wear a helmet when riding their bike or roller blading :))

As I said it is a personal decision, mine happens to be that my guard is staying right where it is, on my saw :)
Jeff, I certainly agree with you about the bike helmet. As a constant reminder, I keep my old helmet near my bike rack. That helmet was smashed up about three years ago when I landed on my head and shoulder (badly separated) after braking suddenly to avoid hitting a car that cut me off. I suffered no head injuries.

A bike helmet is just one example of the many safety devices that I employ. Having said that, I do feel that I am operating my table saw safely without a blade guard but with a spliter feather boards and push sticks.

I am not trying to convince anyone that they should operate therir saw as I do but I certainly am trying to convince everyone that they should wear a bike helmet.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alan,
Why can't you use a push stick with your Uniguard? I use push shoes/sticks with my Uniguard all the time. If it's a cut too narrow to use a stick (not often), I do flip up the guard and use the Grippers.
I use the guard because the momentum of a kickback or other incident can pull your hand into the blade in a nano-second.

Hi Carole, I use a push "shoe" shaped like one and it hits the bar that holds the plastic guard. It won't let me push the piece completely past the blade and seems dangerous to me.

I'm going to make some other push sticks and see if this helps. I don't like the kind that only push the piece; the push stick has to hold it down too. I do have a 1/4" push shoe for narrow pieces. So it's basically interference with the heavy black bar that's causing me trouble plus some visability problems during the cut. I can see what people are saying about visablility problems.

[Alan Mikkelsen]

:o :o :o I'm feeling a bit embarrassed by this thread and the one on detensioning bandsaws. I really do use all the safety guards on all my machines, except the table saw. Been thinking about the micro-jig splitter, haven't got around to doing anything about it.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Jeff, I certainly agree with you about the bike helmet. As a constant reminder, I keep my old helmet near my bike rack. That helmet was smashed up about three years ago when I landed on my head and shoulder (badly separated) after braking suddenly to avoid hitting a car that cut me off. I suffered no head injuries.

A bike helmet is just one example of the many safety devices that I employ. Having said that, I do feel that I am operating my table saw safely without a blade guard but with a spliter feather boards and push sticks.

I am not trying to convince anyone that they should operate therir saw as I do but I certainly am trying to convince everyone that they should wear a bike helmet.
Agreed! I wish everyone would use a guard, but alas there are good reasons not to. :)

[Byron Trantham]

I never use one...I want to see and hear what is going on...I am not suggesting this is best for everyone though

Me too, though I do use a Bies splitter.

[Steve Cox]

One safety device that has not been mentioned that I use all the time is a knee switch for the saw. I don't use a splitter or a guard. I have used both (bisemeyer) and found them to be a real pain. I do use push sticks and feather boards and am very careful. Back to the switch. The one place a splitter works is to keep lumber (as opposed to sheet goods) from closing up behind the blade as tension changes in the wood. If you're paying attention you can see this coming and having a knee switch means I can remove power while keeping my hands controlling the wood. That, to me is one of the most important safety devices around and you hardly ever see them.

[Keel McDonald]

I've never used a guard. In fact, it was the first thing I took off the TS when I bought it. You can have "accidents" even with all the safety guards in the world. And while we're on the subject of safety, I also removed all those annoying safety guards on my mower. I like to keep things simple. Anymore you need to read the manual just to turn the thing on. Just my opinion.

[Bart Leetch]

I agree with the safety shut off knee board. I have one.

[Tyler Howell]

Xcal guard and Bies spitter all the time.

Learned that from the "show me your missing finger" thread on another forum.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'm a bit of a mixture of everything in my safety choice on the tablesaw. I do use the original equipment guard on my Jet contractors saw when it is convenient. Note the hedge there- when convenient. My primary safety choice is to do the vast majority of ripping with my bandsaw where the force of the blade forces the work down and into the table. Yes, the cut is a bit less smoothe, but the board will need to be cleaned up on the jointer anyway. Most of the time my TS does not have the guard on and it is used for dados, rabbets (with featherboards), and simple cross cuts with either a sled or my Incra miter gage. I also modified the rip fence of my saw to make it 6" high using a piece of MDF which is slotted to accept hold down type featherboards. This way the wood cant rise up when dadoing or on the rare occasions when I use the TS to do any ripping.


I heartily recommend that folks use their bandsaws for ripping it's always safer than a tablesaw.

[Daniel Rabinovitz]

Yes, No guard.

[Alan Mikkelsen]

One safety device that has not been mentioned that I use all the time is a knee switch for the saw. I don't use a splitter or a guard. I have used both (bisemeyer) and found them to be a real pain. I do use push sticks and feather boards and am very careful. Back to the switch. The one place a splitter works is to keep lumber (as opposed to sheet goods) from closing up behind the blade as tension changes in the wood. If you're paying attention you can see this coming and having a knee switch means I can remove power while keeping my hands controlling the wood. That, to me is one of the most important safety devices around and you hardly ever see them.


Ditto on the knee switch. I made one several years ago and wouldn't be without it. (Does this offer me any redemption?):o :o

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I use it sometimes....depends on the type of cut I'm doing. I always use a push stick and feather boards.

[Dale Thompson]

Excalibur overarm w/dust collection, Biesy splitter, though I did remove the left side pawl and Grrrrrrrripper for small stuff. Different size/thickness push sticks, featherboards and using what little gray matter that's left between my ears!:) :cool:

Hey Spring,
I have TWO problems with your post. First off: How many of us poor country folks can afford that Xcalibra stuff? :confused: Second: What's the problem with not having ANY gray matter between the ears? It sure makes it a lot easier to get rid of ear-wax buildup - using only ONE dowel! :cool: :)

Dale T.

[Frank Pellow]

I have revised the list in order to reflect the postings made sine my previous summary.


Use a Guard All or Some of the Time: 29

Never Use a Guard: 37

Fence Sitting, In Transition, No Table Saw, or No Comment: 5
Here is a more detailed breakdown along with lists of the folks that I placed into each "camp":

Use "table mounted" guard always or almost always: 13

Ian Barley
Jim Dannels
Mark Goodall (after market)
Jim Knauss
Dennis McDonaugh
Matt Meiser
Bob Nieman
Simon Oconnor
Chip Olson
Dan Owen
Jeff Sudmeier
Dave Wright
Carole Valentine
Use "overhead" guard always or almost always: 5

Jon B
Dave Falkenstein
Tyler Howell
John Miliunas
John Renzetti
Use Guard (table or overhead) sometimes: 11

Dave Anderson
Jim Becker
Ken Firzgerald
Michael Gabbay
Joe Mioux
Dale Rodabaugh
Doug Shepard
Scott Spencer
Jay St.Peter
Alan Tolchinsky
Warren White
No guard, but always use splitter or riving knife: 18

Cecil Arnold
Jim Benante
Ellen Benkin
Mark Carlson
Keith Christopher
Todd Davidson
David Fried
Kelly Hanna
Jay Knepper
Rich Konopka
Tim Morton
Nic Obie
Bruce Page
Frank Pellow
Lou Sansone
Mark Singer
Byron Trantham
Alan Turner
No guard but will be getting splitter soon: 6

Brian Hale
Bart Leetch
John Gregory
Vaughn McMillan
Alan Mikkelsen
Greg Narozniak
No guard and no splitter: 2

Kirk Conststable
Bill Lewis

No guard and no comment re splitter: 11

Don Baer
Cory Bennett
Craig Carlson
Steve Cox
Jules Dominquez
John Hart
Harry Goodwin
Earl Kelly
Keel McDonald
Daniel Rabinovitz
Ken Salisbury
Fence Sitting, In Transition, No Table Saw, or No Comment: 5

Dev Emch
Corey Hallagan
Dino Makropoulos
Dale Thompson (Dale, I don't know anything about basketball, so I have no idea whether or not you use a guard)
Ken Wagg

Finally, four people who never use a guard are thinking about getting an overhead guard sometime in the future. These are:

Cecil Arnold
David Fried
Kelly Hanna
Frank Pellow
If I have misinterpreted your comments so placed you in the wrong "camp", please let me know.

[Corey Hallagan]

Frankly it scares the crap out of me just thinking of not using the guard. I have always used a guard. The guard on the Delta is a piece of junk. I did manage to get the splitter lined up pretty well. We will see how well it works. The craftsman had a much better design. The Delta you can't lift it up to measure or it will come crashing down. We will see how it goes. I haven't cut myself on any power tools in 18 years, however I have permanent scar accross my left hand from nothing less than an old buck saw. I was holding the wood in a stupid way and I slipped and chewed the heck out of my hand, about a 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch deep. It happened so fast and the saw blade just nawed away through with the momentum as I fell forward. I hate to think about what a 4000 rpm saw blade would do!
Just please be careful guys and gals!!

Corey

[Mark Singer]

One point that was overlooked.....guardless is very safe if you go bladeless:confused: ....so then cutless...I think that is an Oldsmobile...:confused:

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Yer killin me Mark!!!! :D:D:D:D

[John Hart]

Personally, I prefer the Cutlass Supreme....No Guard No Splitter. Frank, could you please re-statistize me?

[Bill Lewis]

Frank,

You've got me misplaced in the new re-consolodated list. :( My post states that I used to use no guard and no splitter on my contractor saw. For the new unisaw I bought a Bies splitter. :) So maybe you can place me in two catagories.

BTW, most of you probably already know this, but if you have the Bies splitter, you can not use the stock guard.

[markgoodall]

Mark, Please tell me how you use push sticks with the Unigard? I can't figure it out and I feel less safe with the guard. It really gets in the way IMHO. Alan

I'm not really sure what you mean...

I'm not sure how you COULDN'T use push sticks with the Uniguard. The guard is about 4" wide which means (assuming the blade is centered under the guard) that as long as you are cutting more than 2" plus the width of the pushstick (less than 1") then there's room between the guard and the fence.

When I cut thinner pieces, I just slide the guard so that the blade isn't centered in the guard but closer to one side or the other.

I guess I can't visualize or haven't come across a cut that causes a problem.

I guess if you're ripping something less than the 1/4" width of Lexan plus the 1/2" width of a thin pushstick you might have trouble. But you could always use the pushstick on the other side of the stock.

Is that what you mean?


Wait a minute...... are you talking about a push stick or a push shoe? I'm talking about a push stick, like the plastic ones you get at Lee Valley (see B below)
<img src="http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/powertool/03j7502g1b2.jpg">

I usually use one of each type (A & B in photo) where ever they fit for a particular cut.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi Mark, Yes I'm talking about push shoes here. I don't feel like I have enough control with sticks. Sorry for the confusion. But I just made some new push shoes that shouldn't interfere with the Unigard. They are less bulky in the front and will fit under the support bar. Thanks Alan

[Dale Thompson]

I have revised the list in order to reflect the postings made sine my previous summary.

Dale Thompson (Dale, I don't know anything about basketball, so I have no idea whether or not you use a guard)
Frank Pellow[/INDENT]
If I have misinterpreted your comments so placed you in the wrong "camp", please let me know.

Frank,
Please put me in the NEVER category for both the guard and splitter. I use a face shield when using my grinder and somtimes on the lathe when I am "roughing down" unbalanced stuff. :eek:

As I've said before, "Listen to the wood!". If you do something stupid enough to get it "ticked off", something is going to get hurt and it may be you - regardless of guards, splitters, etc. :eek: ;)

By the way, what is "Basketball"? Do the Packers play that game also? ;) :)

Dale T.

[Jim Becker]

Dale, I love ya, buddy, but I really have to say that until I got the snap-in Biesemeyer splitter, I would have never believed it would have brought so much more comfort to my woodworking at the table saw. The OEM unit was a pain and went into the trash right-quick. The snap-in unit, because it's so easy to use, really gives me much more confidence and lets me relax more so I CAN listen to the wood and better deal with the job at hand. Because of that, it stays on the saw almost all the time.

This is the major point about many safety devices. If they are a pain to use...they don't get used. If they are easy to use...they do. Easily removable splitters and things like the Grr-ipper are just plain easy.

But I do respect your decision to not use the guard and splitter. It's your choice.

[Dale Thompson]

Dale, I love ya, buddy, but I really have to say that until I got the snap-in Biesemeyer splitter, I would have never believed it would have brought so much more comfort to my woodworking at the table saw. The OEM unit was a pain and went into the trash right-quick. The snap-in unit, because it's so easy to use, really gives me much more confidence and lets me relax more so I CAN listen to the wood and better deal with the job at hand. Because of that, it stays on the saw almost all the time.

This is the major point about many safety devices. If they are a pain to use...they don't get used. If they are easy to use...they do. Easily removable splitters and things like the Grr-ipper are just plain easy.

But I do respect your decision to not use the guard and splitter. It's your choice.

Jim,
OH MAN!! I never realized that you were one of the bosses! :eek: :eek: OK, old buddy, old pal, I promise that I will try to retrieve my guards and stuff from whatever part of the universe where they are located. I shot them up on my own self-designed space exploration vehicle. Unless I miss my guess, they are probably stuck in the trees in my front yard. Unfortunately, due to their radioactivity, I can't get them back until the year 2876. Will you "cut me a bit of slack" old buddy, old pal? :cool: :)

Dale T.

[Jim Becker]

I'm not the boss, Dale. That would be the other half! ;) I'm only suggesting that there are new options available today that help to deal with all the reasons that the original guards and stuff are pretty much trash. They certainly changed my mind on the subject. No matter what our personal style and choices are, it's important that we all promote good safety options to those new to the sport...

[John Keane]

I am reluctantly guardless. I use the Delta aftermkt splitter religiously. The Delta provided guard was an absolute pain. I recently bought a blade guard/dust collector from Penn State Ind. There shipping cost $18. My return shipping cost $44. Nice looking kit, never took it out of the box. Reviewed the instructions and knew that in my garage working area it would be a nuisance. Net answer; I would really like to have a guard, but not one that is going to be an obstruction to my visual reference. Hope this helps. Guard or no guard, be careful.

[Frank Pellow]

...
I promise that I will try to retrieve my guards and stuff from whatever part of the universe where they are located.
...

Hey Dale, don't bother with the old guards and stuff, but please just try an (inexpensive) MJ splitter and see if you like it.

[Frank Pellow]

Here is another revision (incorporating new info in this thread and in private mail to me)

Use a Guard All or Some of the Time: 30

Never Use a Guard: 38

Fence Sitting, In Transition, No Table Saw, or No Comment: 4
Here is a more detailed breakdown along with lists of the folks that I placed into each "camp":

Use "table mounted" guard always or almost always: 13

Ian Barley
Jim Dannels
Mark Goodall (after market)
Jim Knauss
Dennis McDonaugh
Matt Meiser
Bob Nieman
Simon Oconnor
Chip Olson
Dan Owen
Jeff Sudmeier
Dave Wright
Carole Valentine
Use "overhead" guard always or almost always: 5

Jon B
Dave Falkenstein
Tyler Howell
John Miliunas
John Renzetti
Use Guard (table or overhead) sometimes: 12

Dave Anderson
Jim Becker
Ken Firzgerald
Michael Gabbay
Bart Leetch
Joe Mioux
Dale Rodabaugh
Doug Shepard
Scott Spencer
Jay St.Peter
Alan Tolchinsky
Warren White
No guard, but always use splitter or riving knife: 20

Cecil Arnold
Jim Benante
Ellen Benkin
Mark Carlson
Keith Christopher
Todd Davidson
David Fried
Kelly Hanna
John Keane
Jay Knepper
Rich Konopka
Bill Lewis
Tim Morton
Nic Obie
Bruce Page
Frank Pellow
Lou Sansone
Mark Singer
Byron Trantham
Alan Turner
No guard but will be getting splitter soon: 6

Steve Cox
Brian Hale
John Gregory
Vaughn McMillan
Alan Mikkelsen
Greg Narozniak
No guard and no splitter: 3

Kirk Conststable
John Hart
Dale Thompson

No guard and no comment about splitter : 9

Don Baer
Cory Bennett
Craig Carlson
Jules Dominquez
Harry Goodwin
Earl Kelly
Keel McDonald
Daniel Rabinovitz
Ken Salisbury
Fence Sitting, In Transition, No Table Saw, or No Comment: 4

Dev Emch
Corey Hallagan
Dino Makropoulos
Ken Wagg

Finally, five people who never use a guard are thinking about getting an overhead guard sometime in the future. These are:

Cecil Arnold
Steve Cox
David Fried
Kelly Hanna
Frank Pellow
If I have misinterpreted your comments so placed you in the wrong "camp", please let me know.

[Carole Valentine]

Ah hah! The key to that is to fiddle with rotating the bar so it is a little higher. The back of the guard will be a little above the saw table when you do this, but this is no problem. Mine is probably about 1" above the table at the back of the guard. I also use a "saw handle" type shoe.

[Matt Meiser]

I also use the delta removable splitter, with the pawls removed. I found that the pawls got in the way too much. I couldn't pull a work piece away from the splitter sideways, which was especially a pain when working with plywood. I ordered it through my local dealer for about $30. I then got another one when I bought my Biesemeyer guard, which I put on Ebay and sold for $50 :)

[Jerry Olexa]

No guard.... but a splitter and anti kickback installed.

[Chris Padilla]

:)

No guard, MJ splitter's still in the package, board buddies still in the box, Grrripers put together but still not used, no overarm guard.

:D

I think I need to open some boxes and use some of these things! :D

[Jim Fullerton]

I do not use guards. I worked as a cabitmaker and millman over 30 years ago. We did not use them in the shops I worked in then and I do not use them in my own shop now. I do not know if you could get away with this in a production shop now due to codes and regulations. By the way I still have all 10 fingers.;)

[Dennis Peacock]

I'm guardless and splitterless and have been since 1974. Never knew those things even existed until folks brought it up here. Always just tossed the extra "junk" that came with a new tablesaw and went right to work. :D

[Frank Pellow]

I am posting my final update to this thread's summary info.

It was a surprise to me to see that only 44% of us use a guard. On the other hand (as seen from the thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=20433) about 70% of us do use a splitter or riving knife.

Here is another revision (incorporating new info in this thread and in private mail to me)

Use a Guard All or Some of the Time: 30

Never Use a Guard: 42

Fence Sitting, In Transition, No Table Saw, or No Comment: 4
Here is a more detailed breakdown along with lists of the folks that I placed into each "camp":

Use "table mounted" guard always or almost always: 12

Ian Barley
Jim Dannels
Mark Goodall (after market)
Jim Knauss
Dennis McDonaugh
Bob Nieman
Simon Oconnor
Chip Olson
Dan Owen
Jeff Sudmeier
Dave Wright
Carole Valentine
Use "overhead" guard always or almost always: 6

Jon B
Dave Falkenstein
Tyler Howell
Matt Meiser
John Miliunas
John Renzetti
Use Guard (table or overhead) sometimes: 12

Dave Anderson
Jim Becker
Ken Firzgerald
Michael Gabbay
Bart Leetch
Joe Mioux
Dale Rodabaugh
Doug Shepard
Scott Spencer
Jay St.Peter
Alan Tolchinsky
Warren White
No guard, but always use splitter or riving knife: 21

Cecil Arnold
Jim Benante
Ellen Benkin
Mark Carlson
Keith Christopher
Todd Davidson
David Fried
Kelly Hanna
John Keane
Jay Knepper
Rich Konopka
Bill Lewis
Tim Morton
Nic Obie
Jerry Olexa
Bruce Page
Frank Pellow
Lou Sansone
Mark Singer
Byron Trantham
Alan Turner
No guard but will be getting splitter soon: 7

Steve Cox
Brian Hale
John Gregory
Vaughn McMillan
Alan Mikkelsen
Greg Narozniak
Chris Padilla
No guard and no splitter: 5

Kirk Conststable
John Hart
Dennis Peakcock
Dale Thompson
Ken Salisbury

No guard and no comment about splitter : 9

Don Baer
Cory Bennett
Craig Carlson
Jules Dominquez
Jim Fullerton
Harry Goodwin
Earl Kelly
Keel McDonald
Daniel Rabinovitz

Fence Sitting, In Transition, No Table Saw, or No Comment: 4

Dev Emch
Corey Hallagan
Dino Makropoulos
Ken Wagg

Finally, five people who never use a guard are thinking about getting an overhead guard sometime in the future. These are:

Cecil Arnold
Steve Cox
David Fried
Kelly Hanna
Frank Pellow

[Ken Salisbury]

Frank,

Take notice I took the liberty of editing the list moving myself to the "no guard, no splitter" category.

[Frank Pellow]

Frank,

Take notice I took the liberty of editing the list moving myself to the "no guard, no splitter" category.
OK Ken. I guess there are some benefits in being a moderator. :)

[John Foote]

I use mine whenever appropriate, on all single blade, thru-cut operations. Bosch 4000 Jobsite saw, with guard / riving knife combo. It seems very well engineered, one screw on and off, solid mount, and no hassle worthy of the name. It's one of the best things about a very nice little saw.