Wedding Etiquette

[Tom Fischer]

Don't know if it's me, getting old, or the younger people are different.
Maybe smarter than folks who have gone past already.

I made these two footstools for my niece and her husband, wedding day.

261744

Put the little engraved plaques (Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2002027/138/large-plate-1-x-212-2-lines.aspx)), their names, date of Wedding (did not put my name anywhere)
Even typed up a short note, got the tree from my next door neighbor, pic of the original design (some museum, circa 1720)
Black walnut, some curly figure.
We drove 700+ miles round trip for the Wedding.
Gave it to her husband.
He never said anything.
Two months later, not a thank you card, not even an acknowledgement.
***********
Second wedding we have attended in the past 6 months.
Neither sends any thank you cards.
Am I missing something?
Or is this the new "Normal"? :confused:

[David Weaver]

Two things come to mind for me:
1) there is probably a greater disparity in manners now than there was 30 years ago. There are people who are over the top with manners (not that there haven't always been) who will spend gobs of money to send out specialized thank-you cards, etc, for anything. Weddings, gifts in general, etc. That said, I've never given a wedding gift and not received a thank you card for it.
2) I never make gifts for people unless they specifically ask for them. People have no clue how long it takes to make two footstools like that, how much thought goes into it, and I would assume there are a lot of people who are first marriage age who want things that are manufactured because they think brands and mass production is superior. Well, and for a wedding, people usually just want cash these days because they've run up the cost of their wedding and honeymoon on ridiculously stupid and indulgent things.

[Tom Fischer]

Thanks David,
We gave them cash too.
The check cleared quite some time ago.

[Matt Meiser]

We've gotten thank you's from every one we've been to. But, while those are really nice pieces, I think making an surprise furniture piece for anyone is a big risk, IMHO. Everyone likes different things. Doesn't excuse not sending a thank you, but they may not be appreciated as you had hoped.

I made a piece of furniture for my brother and his wife but my brother designed it with her input before I built it. I would never have come up with something remotely resembling what they wanted.

[Tom Fischer]

Hi Matt,

I did check with my sister first, sent her pics.
I have made these things before.
She said her daughter and husband would love them.

But, no doubt you are correct. They probably have no idea what handmade stuff is.

[Charles Wiggins]

Second wedding we have attended in the past 6 months.
Neither sends any thank you cards.
Am I missing something?
Or is this the new "Normal"? :confused:

From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/03/11/DI2010031103184.html


Guess I'm Old Fashioned: My friends tell me I am old fashioned for expecting a thank you note for a wedding gift. I have a rule that if I don't get a thank you for the wedding gift, forget a baby gift. My friends tell me to loosen up. I say a thank you note is appropriate. What do you say?

Miss Manners: If they declare gratitude outdated, they must also declare generosity out-dated. If a present is received in silence, you may assume it did not please the recipient and not repeat your attempt.

[David Weaver]

Thanks David,
We gave them cash too.
The check cleared quite some time ago.

I didn't mean to imply that you should give them cash instead of stools as a matter of my opinion. I think the stools are fantastic. Nobody ever gave me anything that nice for my wedding (which is also fine, too. Every year that goes by that I don't have to think about weddings from the participant or attendee side is a win). Anyway, we were happy for the thoughtfulness of any gift that we got from anyone, even if it was small or not useful - I can't think of any reason to have a negative opinion about any gift that was given with good intentions.

[Harold Burrell]

There is never any excuse or justification for ingratitude. If unthankfulness is the "new normal"...then the "new normal" is wrong.

Just my two cents...:)

[David Weaver]

Hi Matt,

I did check with my sister first, sent her pics.
I have made these things before.
She said her daughter and husband would love them.

But, no doubt you are correct. They probably have no idea what handmade stuff is.

They still may love them, and just either be forgetful or inconsiderate.

A few years ago, I went through a rash of giving away some of my unused tools on another forum, and more than once I gave away tools (and shipped them at my expense) and got no thank you or really any communication at all after the "send it to me at:" email. Made me want to apply the shaker or quaker rule or whatever it was!

[Stephen Cherry]

Tom- unless you want to confront your niece, I would just get past it. It's hard to say what the problem would be, but you were generous with your time, talent and money.

[Tom Fischer]

Stephen,

I'm just wondering if it is the "new normal" as mentioned above.
Sounds like this is somewhat unusual, but not rare.

[Doug W Swanson]

I think it's just the way society is today. We gave money to three different high school graduates last year and did not receive any thank yous. It's certainly not the way I'm raising my kids...

BTW: Love the foot stools!

[Matt Day]

It is definitely not the new normal. putting on a wedding takes a lot of time and energy, and as soon as it's over thank you notes might not be the first thing the newlyweds want to do. So waiting a month or two is probably acceptable, six months is definitely not.

Out of curiosity, how old is the bride and groom?

My wife and I got married about three years ago, and she sent out the thank you notes a week or two later. Handwritten mind you. If it was me, I would have typed them, printed them, and signed them. But my handwriting is atrocious :-).

[Tom Fischer]

I have a couple of old things in the house, just a few.
Have a grandfather clock, has somebody's initials carved on the waist door, with the date carved 1859 under the initials.
Must have been a major event for that person.

People used to give "dated" gifts, mark a milestone.
I used to search e-bay for old clocks. The coolest one I ever saw, was mid 19th century.
I think it was a "banjo" clock.
The glass was large enough for a small painting.
The hand painted scene was the people seated at the wedding dinner, outside on the lawn. Grass was very green, sky was very blue.
Women, long white dresses, full collars, sleeves full length.
Should have bought it.

Other cool thing I have is a 19th Century sampler, unfinished
Back then, samplers were supposed to be finished by the girl before age 12.
That milestone signaled that the girl was ready for marriage, proof that she had mastered all the skills to make and repair clothing.
An unfinished sampler means the girl died, before age 12.
I have it in my living room.

Traditions are good. Hope they don't all go away.

[David Weaver]

Side distraction - I'm sure there's someone here who knows the significance of having grandfather clocks in your house (I don't). I would imagine in 1859, to be able to afford a good grandfather clock that had a long-running movement was probably a status symbol, as well as a luxury. My grandparents had few things in the house (they didn't lack money, they just didn't want too much stuff). They were successful farmers in the days (depression era) where 350 acres was a very large farm, but they had a grandfather clock. Presume that when they were kids, and when they had no running water or electricity, to have a clock that would run accurately for more than a week was a good way to know what time it was when you had no other contact with the outside world other than the paper and maybe a one day per week trip to town (which didn't include everyone in the family, just folks who needed to know).

Anyway, I'll bet for sure that the 1859 initials are there because the clock was either an extremely generous gift or a very very very significant purchase in terms of cost vs. discretionary dollars.

Wikipedia doesn't have much to say about the significance of the grandfather clock (utility vs. status, etc), so I couldn't gather much from there.

[Tom Fischer]

The couple are both 27.
One of the other bizarre aspects to this wedding was something called a "photo booth"
Rented, it comes with a box of gaudy costume stuff.
Adds somewhat a Mardi Gras atmosphere to the event.
New to me.

[Brian Kerley]

The couple are both 27.
One of the other bizarre aspects to this wedding was something called a "photo booth"
Rented, it comes with a box of gaudy costume stuff.
Adds somewhat a Mardi Gras atmosphere to the event.
New to me.

Ok....youngin' here.

Got married at 27 a few years ago.

No matter how much we did, or did not, "want" a particular gift, we sent a thank-you note regardless. And, that is definitely the proper etiquette.

I will say this, there is a huge risk to making furniture for anyone. It's not that people don't appreciate craftsmanship and well constructed furniture, but the style younger generations decorate our homes in is quite different than the older generations. While your foot-stools look quite nice and I'm sure were a lot of work, they would not fit in with the decor at our house at all. Nor would they fit into the decor of most homes that I've been to these days. You even said it yourself...the design is from 1720. We don't even have chairs for which a foostool would be used. They're meant more for wing-backs and such. For instance, an ottoman works better for couches.

I know your sister said that your niece would "love them", but your sister could also be out-of-touch. I know my own parents wouldn't be able to accurately say whether or not my wife and I would "love" a particular piece of furniture. Hell, I think that Federalist furniture is amazing looking and of quite high craftsmanship, but I wouldn't want a piece of it in my house, because it just would not fit in with everything else. Anything decor-related is a high risk item. People are very picky about such things. Still doesn't excuse the lack of a thank-you note though.

Also, the photo booth is something we've seen at a few weddings. Keeps the atmosphere light.

[Mel Fulks]

The pair of footstools is well done and a fine gift ,and something not as commercially available now as years ago. Good used ones sell fast. It's the people who are inappropriate . This country seems to be losing all understanding of ceremony and tradition. I was shocked to see how our government now handles Medal of Honor presentation .Less formal than than changing greeters at the Walmart.

[Chuck Wintle]

Don't know if it's me, getting old, or the younger people are different.
Maybe smarter than folks who have gone past already.

I made these two footstools for my niece and her husband, wedding day.

261744

Put the little engraved plaques (Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2002027/138/large-plate-1-x-212-2-lines.aspx)), their names, date of Wedding (did not put my name anywhere)
Even typed up a short note, got the tree from my next door neighbor, pic of the original design (some museum, circa 1720)
Black walnut, some curly figure.
We drove 700+ miles round trip for the Wedding.
Gave it to her husband.
He never said anything.
Two months later, not a thank you card, not even an acknowledgement.
***********
Second wedding we have attended in the past 6 months.
Neither sends any thank you cards.
Am I missing something?
Or is this the new "Normal"? :confused:
class and manners never goes out of style......usually its a lack of proper upbringing to not send a thank you and if they did not like the gift it is still not an excuse. Did others who attended receive a thank you?

[Matt Meiser]

The pair of footstools is well done and a fine gift ,and something not as commercially available now as years ago. Good used ones sell fast. It's the people who are inappropriate . This country seems to be losing all understanding of ceremony and tradition. I was shocked to see how our government now handles Medal of Honor presentation .Less formal than than changing greeters at the Walmart.

I hear you Mel. Last wedding I went to the groom had the gall to take a commoner as his wife and his family didn't give her's a goat, a pig, or anything!

[Art Mulder]

Put the little engraved plaques (Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2002027/138/large-plate-1-x-212-2-lines.aspx)), their names, date of Wedding (did not put my name anywhere)

I can't say if this is the new normal, since I haven't been to a wedding in over 10 years. (been married for 22 myself) However, I still think that a thank-you note is mandatory.

But I don't understand why you would not have signed the piece itself. Not on the plaque, but somewhere underneath the project. I always sign my work, even as a hobbyist.

As well I heartily agree with David Weaver... So many people these days have no clue about the effort, thought, and work, that goes into making a handcrafted item.

[Tom Fischer]

clDid others who attended receive a thank you?

I don't know. I am afraid of starting something.
Was planing on asking around at Fourth of July, couple of beers, etc.

[Tom Fischer]

But I don't understand why you would not have signed the piece itself. Not on the plaque, but somewhere underneath the project. I always sign my work, even as a hobbyist.

I thought about that. And the shop where I got the upholstery stuff (pretty upscale restorations), said I should sign them.
Didn't.

[Jerry Thompson]

I am 70. I remember people complaining about the same thing when I was growing up and on into adult hood.

[Mel Fulks]

Matt ,you almost got me ,but I just looked that up in my pocket etiquette book(copyright 1584). It's the brides family that gives the goat or pig. That way the bride can't say that one of them ".....ate my thank you note".

[Pat Barry]

Tom, Very nice work on these two pieces, they are very well done and I'm sure much higher quality than what they could have purchased in any furniture store. You should have received the thank you. Maybe that is still to come. The thing is though, we don't know if they were well received or not. It may be that they love them and use them eveyrday but somehow the thank you got lost in the mail, etc. On the other hand, regardless of what their mother may have said, they may not care for the style. Maybe they would have been head over heels for something modern or even arts and crafts. I think the style may be the issue with the younger folks. I bet they come to appreciate them with time and may even purchase complementary pieces, in which case you would be the instigator of that process. Who knows, though? It is truly the thought that counts the most.

[Mel Fulks]

Regarding the style of the pieces ,many of us grew up seeing that type of thing in grandma's parlor .But they are better suited for a bedroom. I can't imagine that they couldn't be used there ,with the couple each having one ,perhaps each choosing their own fabric. Certainly easier to move around an use than those old "hassocks" used by people less fortunate.

[Jim Rimmer]

I'm not surprised by this. Whether or not they liked the gifts is irrelevant. It just seems like common manners are now very uncommon. My wife and I send birthday gifts to my nephews and nieces for several years, usually cash. We never got thank you notes or even a verbal thank you when we saw them later. And my brother and sister never sent anything to my kids. We finally just quit sending the gifts.

My wife and I received gifts that were damaged (45th anniversary coming up) and being young we didn't know how to handle it. Were they on the bargain table or damaged by the buyer (nothing was mailed, all were hand delivered) so we just kept them and sent thank you notes. Forty five years of using a pop up toaster with the plastic bottom cracked. :eek: :mad:

[Jim Matthews]

My two cents on this are based on living downwind of the armpit of Massachusetts, Fall River.

These people got your best, the first time around and will remain forever clueless to your generosity.
Forget them, life it too short to waste further effort.

WE know that these were a kingly gift, they're looking for a barcode.

Raise the subject at your own peril - it will make you appear petty.
Get even, instead. When they have kids of their own, send lots of toys with sirens.

[Patrick McCarthy]

My two cents on this are based on living downwind of the armpit of Massachusetts, Fall River.

Raise the subject at your own peril - it will make you appear petty.
Get even, instead. When they have kids of their own, send lots of toys with sirens.

Two comments and a chuckle:

First, I would have signed them . . .but that is just me and my ego.

Second, giving the gift reflects well upon you; a belated thank you would salvage somthing . . . but best not to hold your breathe.

The chuckle: re toys with sirens - - Always thought my father-in-law is a great guy, and he really is, but I had my doubts one Christmas when he gave my son a Fireman's hat with a built-in red light on top and a VERY LOUD SIREN. He thought it was hilarious, and i can still recall him laughting as he drove away.

[Mark Bolton]

While its far from time honored convention, I have a different spin on this.

When I give anything whether it be a gift, a tip, a donation of money, or my time, I do it with complete and utter selflessness and I expect absolutely no compensation for that gift whatsoever. To that end I also expect no one to do anything for me, which makes the occasion when someone does, that much more meaningful.

The common convention that you get married and have a windfall of gifts and cash is something I have never understood. The same convention that when you are to have a child you get another windfall of gifts and cash is another. I understand there will always be those who want to help, contribute, celebrate, your new endeavor however that celebration, in my opinion, should come without any prerequisite for compensation. Again, this is just my personal view.

Its the same reason why I have never, and will never, have a wedding where I would arbitrarily volunteer my friends, and or family, to be obligated to spend some ungodly sum on a dress, or outfit, they will flatly NEVER wear again in their life simply because I want them to be in my wedding. If I were to have a wedding where I wanted a given attire, a given venue in another state/country, whatever, I would provide all of it. I would pay for the clothing, the travel, accommodations, and the like. If I could not, I would not.

For me, the same intent applies to my giving. I give because I choose to. When I make a financial donation to an organization that qualifies for a "gift", perhaps a mug, T-shirt, DVD, I tell them to keep it. It takes value away from my gift.

Im sure Im not conveying this in the way I intend but I simply believe people should give for the real reason of giving. If whatever you gave happens to evoke a gesture of appreciation, so be it. If not, you just continue to give.

I have personally always felt a lot of the common convention surrounding this topic is somewhat flawed in tradition as opposed to logic or some concept of what it truly is to give. Its why people spend copious quantities of energy every holiday season worrying if they are giving a gift of equal value to what they anticipate someone will give them. It is just sad. Its my opinion its why we live in a culture of "getting" rather than giving.

I have known a lot of people with tremendous resources who have given anonymously, given just for the sake of giving, and that's how I want to live my life. But its just my opinion for myself.

[Brian Kent]

The thought just occurred to me that I have not written thanks for the wedding couples who spent $50 TO $100 on my dinner at the reception.

[Kevin Bourque]

My recollection of wedding etiquette is that the married couple has a 1 year grace period from the date of the wedding to send out all thank yous. After that you may curse them.

PS. If I ever get married Tom and his custom furniture gifts are the 1st guest on my list:D

[Steve Meliza]

My wife says that she has heard 6 months is the limit, but she thinks it should be more like 3 months. Our own thank you cards were all sent out in about 2 weeks, but we didn't head out on a honeymoon for 3 months so we had the time time to get them done right away. What a monumental effort that was too.

Even though we sent our thank you cards promptly we still had items with no note on them to say who they were from or it wasn't clear if a card was supposed to go with the mystery gift or not. In those cases we had to ask my MIL and try to subtly find out who gave it to us. In one or two cases we had to send a generic thank you without mentioning what was given because we couldn't be sure what they gave us.

Now consider that you handed gifts to a groom with 20 things on his mind, your name isn't on the gift, and a couple weeks later when sitting down to do thank you cards he's trying to remember just who it was that handed them to him. Obviously such a unique gift could be quickly and easily traced back to the giver, but it is an embarrassing and awkward situation to be in to have to ask who gave you something. Family is family and we love them even when they don't voice their appreciation of what we do. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and be liberal with grace.

[Brad Sperr]

I think that "thank you" cards are mandatory for wedding gifts and you have good reason to feel put-out for not getting one, especially considering the effort you put into the gift. That's easy for me to say, though, since my wife took care of our "thank you" cards. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a card in the next couple of months, since these things take time to get around to.

I'm more surprised that the groom didn't even acknowledge the gift when you gave it to him. That's just basic social skills. Was this one of those weddings where the bride and groom spend the whole night drinking and dancing with their friends and don't bother to greet the guests? It seems like that's the trend now-a-days, weddings are just another party.

[Gordon Eyre]

Many thank you notes are not written within the two month time period you mentioned so don't give up hope. That was a very nice and generous gift you gave them and I hope their mother taught them the basic social graces and you will yet receive the requisite thank you note you so richly deserve.

[Tom Fischer]

Was this one of those weddings where the bride and groom spend the whole night drinking and dancing with their friends and don't bother to greet the guests? It seems like that's the trend now-a-days, weddings are just another party.

Ahh, yeah, that was about it.
What makes me think that there will be no thank you's forthcoming was that my sister sent a link this weekend of all of the "photographer" pics.
(I think the bride likes to send the official wedding pic in the thank you note)
Anyway, the collection of pics was all about their party. Neither my wife or I, or any of my brothers are in any of the wedding photos.
Or for that matter, none of the bride's father's brothers, paternal grandmother, etc are in any pics.
But, what is more bizarre was a group pic, my BIL's brothers traveled from TX,and MO, and the 85+ year old grandmother too.
I had never met any of them.
There was a group photo taken with everybody, bride side- at least 40 people.
That was 2 months ago.
The paid Photographer took it, took several shots, but it does not appear in the online "Wedding Album"
Bizarre, super bizarre.

Anyway, some helpful folks advise me not to be hurt.
I am not hurt, just trying to measure "How normal is this?"

[Mark Bolton]

Has your sister ever mentioned if your niece and her new husband enjoyed "their" day?

[Bill Cunningham]

Forty five years of using a pop up toaster with the plastic bottom cracked. :eek: :mad:

Must have been a darn good toaster to last 45 years..Well worth a thank you note:)

[Jim Rimmer]

Must have been a darn good toaster to last 45 years..Well worth a thank you note:)

We don't toast as much as some folks do. :D

[Greg Portland]

My recollection of wedding etiquette is that the married couple has a 1 year grace period from the date of the wedding to send out all thank yous. After that you may curse them.

PS. If I ever get married Tom and his custom furniture gifts are the 1st guest on my list:D
I got married 6 years ago and the conventional wisdom was "thank you cards within 1 year". A quick verbal thank you (especially for mailed or shipped items) was expected so people knew you got their gift.

I'll also mention that I've been to 7-8 weddings since that time and I've gotten written thank you cards about 50% of the time.

[Greg Portland]

I'm more surprised that the groom didn't even acknowledge the gift when you gave it to him. That's just basic social skills. Was this one of those weddings where the bride and groom spend the whole night drinking and dancing with their friends and don't bother to greet the guests? It seems like that's the trend now-a-days, weddings are just another party.
The bride and groom are often overwhelmed on the day of the actual wedding. Time really does fly by @ the reception. The bride's mom should really be the one ensuring that all the guests are visited (e.g. hey, it's time to cut the cake, hey it's time to visit the tables, etc.).

[Jim Matthews]

Its my opinion its why we live in a culture of "getting" rather than giving.

I think you and Tom are on the same page there.
It is noteworthy that the man went to some care and spent something that can't be replenished - his time.
That said, I think more time will be wasted on this lost cause.

Acknowledging something handmade is in a different constellation from "Thanks for the Target gift card..."