Rivets in oak entry door

[Bryan Deel]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for advise regarding rivets in doors. My plan is to rivet the rails, stiles, radius section, and panels. Are these usually cold rivets? -- I am building a white oak entry door for my neighbor's cottage-style home. She wants it to be Tolkienesque, and I am forging a peep-box, hinge straps, and accent plates.-- Making those parts is pretty straight forward, but setting the rivets without scorching the timber (if hot) is a question that is making me wonder whether I am overlooking something simple.

I really appreciate any advise and/or anecdotes regarding this process.

Cheers

[Charlie MacGregor]

I can't help Bryan but I'm dying to see build photos or when done!

['Jacques Malan']

Setting hot rivets in wood without scorching is not possible, the heat of the rivet will scorch the wood even if you wet it. What I will do is use copper rivets, anneal properly and set them cold. The only technique that I am aware of that will make it possible to set rivets in wood is spin riveting, and that is not really possible on a door.

[Jerry Miner]

Why rivets? Why not decorative nails (often called "clavos")? Here is one source (but if you're a blacksmith, you can make your own):

Van Dyke's (http://www.vandykes.com/search.aspx?query=clavos)

[Peter J Lee]

Are you riveting to join or to decorate? You can get screws that look like rivets, but of course won't show anything on the opposite side. You can peen rivets pretty easily but they'll look, well, peened.

[Jerry Miner]

In ancient times doors were often assembled with "door nails" which were "clinched"---or bent over on the back side to keep them in place (hence the expression "dead as a door nail" meaning a nail that could not be re-used). These are very similar to rivets, but installed cold, not hot.

261704261705

[Howard Acheson]

You might want to re-think this. Iron in or on oak will cause black stains when it gets wet. The tannin in oak reacts with iron.

[Sam Murdoch]

Here is copper rivets being used in boatbuilding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faK7BZZED_s
and a source for copper nails & roves - http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1922 .
Might be a viable option for you.

[keith micinski]

You might want to re-think this. Iron in or on oak will cause black stains when it gets wet. The tannin in oak reacts with iron.

I think the black staining would add to the character of the door.

[Michael Mayo]

You might want to re-think this. Iron in or on oak will cause black stains when it gets wet. The tannin in oak reacts with iron.

The original poster said the customer/neighbor wanted a Tolkienesque door. I would think the staining would add to the authenticity of the Tolkien flavor.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Authentic wouldn't be rivets but would be clinched nails as other posters have mentioned. The best source for them is the oldest manufacturer in the US:
http://www.tremontnail.com/

[Bryan Deel]

Lots of good advice, here. I will be using the rove nails in the future, for sure. I have a few pounds of old cut nails (from an old balloon framed house I'm on) to pick through for clinching. The bigger studs will be decorative pyramid head srews that I will match several rivets in the radius. I really needed to commit to these details this weekend. Thanks for the help!

[Joe Kieve]

Maybe I'm way out of line here but question whether you can bend the cut nails. Seem that they'll break before they bend far enough to clinch. Just wondering???

[Mel Fulks]

I agree ,Joe. My understanding is that after the advent of cut nails they made the hand made nails for at least a couple of decades for clinching because the cut nails would break.

[Darrel Smith]

Here is copper rivets being used in boatbuilding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faK7BZZED_s
and a source for copper nails & roves - http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1922 .
Might be a viable option for you.

Thanks for the links, they've been really helpful.

[mike holden]

The Tremont hardened nails will not clench, they will break. However Tremont makes soft nails as well, and those DO clench!
Problem is, the hardened nails are what the BORG carries, the softer nails (and brads) are harder to find. TFWW carries them.
Mike