Starrett repairs

[Robert LaPlaca]

I have a Starrett 6 inch combination square that is about 20+ years old that unfortunately isn't square any longer, when compared to other squares and against a Starrett 1-2.3 block it consistently reads less than 90 degrees. Doesn't look like any obvious issues like dirt or glue in the squares body. Anyone have any experience sending a combination square back to Starrett for repair as to the approximate cost?

[Steve Friedman]

I have a Starrett 6 inch combination square that is about 20+ years old that unfortunately isn't square any longer, when compared to other squares and against a Starrett 1-2.3 block it consistently reads less than 90 degrees. Doesn't look like any obvious issues like dirt or glue in the squares body. Anyone have any experience sending a combination square back to Starrett for repair as to the approximate cost?
Yes. You send it back, they inspect and send you an estimate of the repair. Not cheap, but you're not obligated to let them do anything. Generally around 30% - 50% of the cost of a new one. But you get back an amazing tool that is as good as new (maybe better because it's old steel). I have sent several flea market purchases to them and have been very happy. I have even sent them some calipers and dividers with loose mechanisms.

Steve

[lowell holmes]

Popular Woodworking has an article on their website regarding repairing a combination square that is out of square. It involves using a small file to file down the high side in the slot.

It should not take long to do.

[george wilson]

Unless you are pretty good with a file,I suggest that you do not ruin your square by trying to file on it. Myself, to do by hand,I'd use a 8" or 10" warding file. Since I have milling machines,though,I'd clamp the square head against an accurate angle plate,and milll the slot a LITTLE with a slitting saw of the correct width.

If you all would buy the squares with HARDENED heads,you would not be having this problem,. They cost more,but you get what you pay for.

For a hill billy repair,done in the hen house:),you could just slip thin pieces of shim stock,or soda can sheet metal under 1 side of the slot until the blade checks out square. Then ,do not adjust the length of the blade so the shims don't get disturbed.

[David Barnett]

Popular Woodworking has an article on their website regarding repairing a combination square that is out of square. It involves using a small file to file down the high side in the slot.

From the June 2011 issue #190, Bob Lang's video on how to correct a combination square.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/squaring-a-combination-square

Bob's demonstation square is more egregiously out-of-square than any Starrett I've encountered, so it may be best to scribe or scratch a finer line than a pencil lead on a surface such as a scrap of counter material, drafting mylar of whatever else is handy. Better, though is a known reference, such as a cylinder square. Also, if you have ceramic polishing sticks or files, they'll allow for finer, slower adjustments than most steel files, excepting 4-cut or 6-cut Swiss files. Go slow.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Yes. You send it back, they inspect and send you an estimate of the repair. Not cheap, but you're not obligated to let them do anything. Generally around 30% - 50% of the cost of a new one. But you get back an amazing tool that is as good as new (maybe better because it's old steel). I have sent several flea market purchases to them and have been very happy. I have even sent them some calipers and dividers with loose mechanisms.

Steve

Steve thanks, a new 6 inch Starrett combo square goes for about $80+ so spending $25 - 40 isn't too bad, the square is otherwise in great shape, err except it isn't square..

[Robert LaPlaca]

Unless you are pretty good with a file,I suggest that you do not ruin your square by trying to file on it. Myself, to do by hand,I'd use a 8" or 10" warding file. Since I have milling machines,though,I'd clamp the square head against an accurate angle plate,and milll the slot a LITTLE with a slitting saw of the correct width.

If you all would buy the squares with HARDENED heads,you would not be having this problem,. They cost more,but you get what you pay for.

For a hill billy repair,done in the hen house:),you could just slip thin pieces of shim stock,or soda can sheet metal under 1 side of the slot until the blade checks out square. Then ,do not adjust the length of the blade so the shims don't get disturbed.

Thanks George, I have seen the article about using a file and quite frankly I am not too comfortable with the idea.. I guess hindsight is 20/20 about buying squares with hardened heads, I have one of my late machinist fathers really old Lufkin combo squares with a hardened head that is probably as square as the day dad bought it..

[george wilson]

So,who knows what Starrett charges to re cut a square groove?

[Adam Cruea]

Unless you are pretty good with a file,I suggest that you do not ruin your square by trying to file on it. Myself, to do by hand,I'd use a 8" or 10" warding file. Since I have milling machines,though,I'd clamp the square head against an accurate angle plate,and milll the slot a LITTLE with a slitting saw of the correct width.

If you all would buy the squares with HARDENED heads,you would not be having this problem,. They cost more,but you get what you pay for.

For a hill billy repair,done in the hen house:),you could just slip thin pieces of shim stock,or soda can sheet metal under 1 side of the slot until the blade checks out square. Then ,do not adjust the length of the blade so the shims don't get disturbed.

Do you know if the ones Lee Valley sells are the hardened variety? I'm fairly sure the rules/straightedges in them are (at least I'm pretty sure it says that on the steel rule) but I'm not sure about the combination head.

[Robert LaPlaca]

After staring at the Starrett catalog, it seems as the the combination squares that start with the catalog number C33H are forged hardened steel, if I am also understanding what the catalog says, those heads would not have the black crinkle finish. The regular cast iron headed combination squares start with the catalog number C11H, it seems as though the cast iron headed combo squares have the black crinkle finish.. The forged steel heads seem to be an up charge of about $30

[Adam Cherubini]

Step one, disassemble and hose the square head down with WD-40. Then wipe it clean. Just a tiny spec of dust or grime in that saddle area will cause the square to be out. I've seen it.

Step two, clean the blade real well. Flip it over and try it that way, try it in different positions to see if anything changes. If you have a second, try swapping it.

All heads wear over time. And it's likely they will wear unevenly. But I've "fixed" some old checkered squares by cleaning them. Sometimes if the blade is nicked, it can create tiny dislocation that will throw your square out. Old machinists careful "stone" nicks with fine arkansas slips.

Step 3, inspect the face of the head. A nick there can also throw off your square. Remember that a square that is out a few thou over 10 or 12" only need a few tenths (.0001) taken off it's saddle. I'd sooner pass fine sand paper over a saddle as try to file it. I know many old machinists that lightly pass over their machines' tables with arkansas and WD-40 when mounting vises or the like. Just a little nick can cause problems.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Adam, thanks for the tips on the combo square. We do know that the even if the blade is flipped in the head, we still read out of square, so the issue must be somewhere in the combo square head not the ruler... I am in the process of shipping off to Starrett to see what the repair will cost..

[Winton Applegate]

file down the high side in the slotI have done this with my small Starrett combination square (when it was brand new I hate to say) and it worked fine.
Check to varify the accuracy of every tool even the best.

[Winton Applegate]

Crinkle finish
yes you are correct; hardened is without the crinkle.
On the hardened ones I busted out my black crinkle paint, put a few pieces of masking tape here and there and
viola
The metal and paint need to be seventy or eighty degrees to crinkle. Cooler and nada.
I am a sucker for crinkle finish.
i think it is a guy thing.
Any women out there reading this that give a damb one way or the other ?

[Chris Parks]

I have just spent an interesting hour in the shed testing combination squares. I had two very old ones, a Rabone and another made in Germany from my Grandfather. About a week ago I binned both of them but tonight I decided to have a go and see what is what. I have recently bought a new Starrett and I had used this as a reference for both of them and decided they were no good.

Tonight I dragged them out of the bin and took them apart. I ran a piece of 1000 wet and dry through the slot of each to clean them up and then looked at the blades. they were both nicked and damaged on the edge of each so I ran them across a stone to clean them up and put them back together. I did the two line test and found that I was not being accurate enough with the pencil. We all know it is easy drawing a line using a square don't we? I was sure I did but found that it was not the case. I eventually found that I had to hold the pencil perpendicular both ways to get a repeatable result so I bookmarked that in my mind for the next project. If the marking is not done with a lot of care it can cost you a square.

Both of them were a bit out but not as bad as I had thought, so I end for ended the blades and got a different result on each, then I swapped the blades and again got different results. I generally played with them enough to get both spot on without using a file and the problem all along is the blade. With the same blade both can be spot on and if I end for end it in both or use the other blade they are both out. They are now back on the tool board and I will order a new blade for one.

[lowell holmes]

I would scribe lines on wood with a box cutter or a really sharp marking knife. That gives you extreme accuracy.

[Chris Parks]

I tried both a knife and a pencil. Hand position and angle of the marker are important in both cases. The knife produces a kerf which can capture the second knife cut if they are close to each other and the operator is not careful where a sharp pencil does not suffer from that problem.