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Kurt Voss
05-15-2005, 7:55 PM
We have a lot of power outages where I live and I've been planning to get a standby unit with an automatic transfer switch. I like the specs on this unit (http://www.generatorsales.com/order/JDE1PH30.asp?page=JDE1PH30)along with a 200 gallon subbase tank and auto-start - it comes with the enclosure and residential rated muffler. I'd appreciate any input you may have on this not insignificant purchase.

thanks

JayStPeter
05-15-2005, 8:24 PM
Do you have natural gas or propane already in your house? They make them to run off that also. That 200 gal tank looks mighty expensive. I rent a 500 gal propane tank for something like $9/mo. Had I bought it and had it buried it would've cost around $1200. Smaller (200 gal?) above ground tanks were just a few hundred dollars.
Otherwise, that unit looks like a beast. Should do the job.

Jay

Jeff Sudmeier
05-15-2005, 8:45 PM
Kurt, the only thing I can add is to figure out howyou are going to cycle your fuel. It can't just sit aroudn forever.

At work we have huge diesel gens, their fuel is bought through a service that comes and pumps out the old and pumps in the new at regular intervals.

Kurt Voss
05-15-2005, 8:59 PM
Do you have natural gas or propane already in your house? They make them to run off that also. That 200 gal tank looks mighty expensive. I rent a 500 gal propane tank for something like $9/mo. Had I bought it and had it buried it would've cost around $1200. Smaller (200 gal?) above ground tanks were just a few hundred dollars.
Otherwise, that unit looks like a beast. Should do the job.

Jay

No, and that's part of the problem - everything's electric.


Kurt, the only thing I can add is to figure out howyou are going to cycle your fuel. It can't just sit aroudn forever.

At work we have huge diesel gens, their fuel is bought through a service that comes and pumps out the old and pumps in the new at regular intervals.

How often does the fuel get replaced? I was basically planning on burning the fuel up every 6 months or so and refilling.

Rob Russell
05-15-2005, 9:50 PM
How would you get diesel fuel delivered? In our area, that's basically the same thing as home heating fuel, but I doubt that's something you have delivered in your area. LP gas can be delivered by truck - a 500 gallon tank would last you about a week and you could run your gas grill off of it too the rest of the time. On the same site as the diesel generator is a 30kw Ford generator for about the same money. That might be worth considering.

Joe Mioux
05-15-2005, 9:57 PM
We have a lot of power outages where I live and I've been planning to get a standby unit with an automatic transfer switch. I like the specs on this unit (http://www.generatorsales.com/order/JDE1PH30.asp?page=JDE1PH30)along with a 200 gallon subbase tank and auto-start - it comes with the enclosure and residential rated muffler. I'd appreciate any input you may have on this not insignificant purchase.

thanks

Hi Kurt: a couple issues come to my mind with your post. First, 30kW gen is a lot of standby power for one house. You might be able to get by with a smaller unit and have that hooked up to a sub-panel that will power only the necessities of the house, such as the heating and ac, refrigerators, a tv, a couple outlets for light etc. In addition to speading $8600 for one diesel unit, you will also have to consider spending another $grand on the wiring for the auto transfer switch.

Other than convenience, for home needs, instead of the auto transfer switch, a manual switch may work just as well and save you a few bucks.

Go with a dual fuel source unit. Unless you run the unit once a week, a dual fuel source is a good choice. Go with a cleaner burning unit such as LP or NG. Diesel fuels will gum up and may cause the unit not to run when needed.

Back in '98, I bought a 15kw that has worked when needed. And when I need power I really need it. In the winter, I can't afford to have my greenhouse freeze out 15,000 poinsettias because of a power outage. And I can't afford to have the greenhouse overheat in the summer.

The 15kw hooks up to a manual transfer switch and i turn off all the unneccessary circuits until municipal electric service is restored.

You may want to check out Northern Supply online, they have a lot of generators that may fit your needs.

HOpe this helps
Joe

Kurt Voss
05-15-2005, 10:24 PM
Hi Kurt: a couple issues come to my mind with your post. First, 30kW gen is a lot of standby power for one house. You might be able to get by with a smaller unit and have that hooked up to a sub-panel that will power only the necessities of the house, such as the heating and ac, refrigerators, a tv, a couple outlets for light etc. In addition to speading $8600 for one diesel unit, you will also have to consider spending another $grand on the wiring for the auto transfer switch.

Other than convenience, for home needs, instead of the auto transfer switch, a manual switch may work just as well and save you a few bucks.

Go with a dual fuel source unit. Unless you run the unit once a week, a dual fuel source is a good choice. Go with a cleaner burning unit such as LP or NG. Diesel fuels will gum up and may cause the unit not to run when needed.

Back in '98, I bought a 15kw that has worked when needed. And when I need power I really need it. In the winter, I can't afford to have my greenhouse freeze out 15,000 poinsettias because of a power outage. And I can't afford to have the greenhouse overheat in the summer.

The 15kw hooks up to a manual transfer switch and i turn off all the unneccessary circuits until municipal electric service is restored.

You may want to check out Northern Supply online, they have a lot of generators that may fit your needs.

HOpe this helps
Joe

I appreciate the thoughts. Unfortunately, NG is not available here and LP is more expensive and I really don't want the eyesore of a tank near the house. Additionally, diesel engines have much longer service lives and lower cost to maintain. We have a couple of petroleum services around that deliver to farms and industrial locations - so fuel shouldn't be a problem. Also off-road diesel is a lot cheaper without the road taxes included. An automatic transfer switch is a necessity for us because we run a greenhouse as well and don't want to lose a crop because we were gone for a day or the weekend. As far as the size goes - I basically want to run everything like normal and it needs to handle about 15 tons of AC in the summer and electric heat/water in the winter. I"ve looked through Northertools inventory as well, for a comparably equipped unit - would run about $2500 more.

I'm really looking for information on specific diesel gensets and especially if any brands have a bad rep. I'm very comfortable with John Deere as a brand name, but really want to do as much background checking as I can. Thanks!

Jeff Sudmeier
05-15-2005, 10:42 PM
How often does the fuel get replaced? I was basically planning on burning the fuel up every 6 months or so and refilling.

Kurt,

That is an answer I don't know. I don't work with them at all. I just talked to some of the guys that do one day. They said the fuel gets replaced regularly.

I think the best thing would be to go to the genny manufacturer and find out how long they say the diesel fuel can sit.

Kevin Arceneaux
05-15-2005, 11:01 PM
A few things

1. That is a large unit, you really sure you need that much?

2. Diesel is fine and will be delivered. Just remember to get offroad diesel.

3. Check you local code - If you install a generator, many local codes require you to install a cut out switch. This will take you off the power company lines and onto your generator. If not, you can backfeed the system, hurting or killing the linemen trying to restore your power. It is a good idea to put in a cutout anyway. Make sure your electricail know what he is doing. My Dad's didn't and he had to show him how to do it.

Some power companys will pull you meter if they see you have a generator and you will not get it back until the curcuit is repaired, and sometimes longer. And yes, we can and will do that. The safety of our men is important to us.

Tom Pritchard
05-16-2005, 5:59 AM
We have a lot of power outages where I live and I've been planning to get a standby unit with an automatic transfer switch. I like the specs on this unit (http://www.generatorsales.com/order/JDE1PH30.asp?page=JDE1PH30)along with a 200 gallon subbase tank and auto-start - it comes with the enclosure and residential rated muffler. I'd appreciate any input you may have on this not insignificant purchase.

thanks

Kurt, just a quick "heads up" on the diesel. I have a 1 ton diesel pickup truck and a diesel compact tractor. I love them both, and I'm impressed with their performance. That being said, I would be a little concerned with diesel setting in the tank more than a month, esp. in warm weather. There are certain bacteria/algae that actually grow in diesel fuel when left alone for a period of time, and if you pull them into the engine, you're in trouble. There are additives that you can put into the diesel fuel to prevent their growth, and I believe that Sta-Bil makes one. I would do a little research on the fuel issue before hand so that you are prepared for any issues before they arise. Good luck with your purchase, it is a REAL beauty!!

Rob Russell
05-16-2005, 8:30 AM
The simplest way to refresh the diesel might be to just burn the tank down and have it refilled. Compare the cost of pumping out the tank to just running the generator for 3 days and refilling the tank. Your electricity bill will drop a little bit to offset the cost, too.

I can't offer any comment on diesel brands because I have no direct experience with anything other than automotive diesels, and I don't think that experience applies here.

Kevin Arceneaux
05-16-2005, 9:46 AM
Diesel setting is not that much of a problem. We have diesel generators, 10 of them - 6 are dual fueled units, and we only run them for a couple of hours a month to keep the seals lubed and to make sure they will start when needed and we do not use stabalizers and do not have any problems. And it does get a bit warm down here. Though I do not see where it can hurt to use a stabilizer.

As for running the tank down by using it, you will not save money, it will cost you more. The heat rate for a diesel is not that good when compared to other means of generating electricity. Whle you may save a few dollars on your electric bill, you will pay more for the replacement diesel. For example, if you pay $5/kwh, for an average house you pay about 7-10 dollars/day. That depends on the season, if your AC is working hard, it is higher end. 100 hours would cost you about $35. Now running the engine you picked, the cost, at not quite full load - I'll use 2 gallon/hour, the cost for that, using 1.75 $/gallon, would be $350.

For the amount of diesel you would want to keep on hand, look at the hours/outage that you have had over the lst few years. Multiply that number by the number of gallons, I would use at 1/2 load as I do not think you will approach full load, to get a base number. Add 15-20% fudge factor and that is the amount of deisel I would keep on hand.

Kurt - one thing you could do is raise heck with the PUC and your utility. It does work. It seems they either need to replace old equipment or they need to get aggressive in their tree trimming. We had the same problem with one of the companies we use for transmission. We had all kinds of outages due to them cutting back on tree trimming and after it started costing them money in penalties, they cleaned up the ROW.

Rob Russell
05-16-2005, 11:09 AM
Kevin,

FYI, my suggestion on running the fuel out of the tanks was as an alternative to paying someone to pump the old fuell out of the tanks - based on cost. I'd agree that running the generator as an alternative to street power on its own would be expensive.

Rob

Joe Mioux
05-16-2005, 11:22 PM
Hi Kurt:

If you are set on diesel, make sure you set your emergency system to run for an hour or two every week. That way the engine will always be ready when you do have a power outage.

Joe