Business question?

[Robby Phelps]

Hi everyone,

<O:p

I hope first of all that it is ok to post questions like this here. If not please accept my apologies.<O:p

I have a former client (one of my favorites) that has requested a play structure for her 8-year-old son. They have a large budget and I would love to take the job but I have huge concerns in regards to lawsuits and liability issues. It just so happens that her and her husband are big time lawyers in MO. I thought about asking them draw up a letter that absolves me of any liability to anyone that may play on it or come near it. Is this enough? I really don't want to get into making play structures a lot, and do not want to spend the time and money to get licensed for this kind of thing, but I really like this client and do not want her looking anywhere else. <O:p

Any feedback and suggestions are greatly appreciated.<O:p

[Chris Rosenberger]

You should talk to your client about your concerns. If you are afraid of offending them. You could say that you you are not worried about them suing you if a accident were to happen, but you are concerned about the parents of other kids that might play on the equipment.

[Ian Barley]

Robby

The legal proffesion, by and large, is adversorial in nature. If you are going to try and rely on a letter as a defence against action it definitely should not be drawn up by the people who are going to be your adversaries if you have to use it. If you want such a letter get your own lawyer to draw it up. In my own legal system such a letter would not constitute an adequate defence against any reasonably serious claim.

Do you have liability insurance for the work that you are doing now. Presumably yes? If so what limitations does it place on the kind of work that you are allowed to do? As an example, mine prohibits me from selling my furniture in the USA, It doesn't specifically exclude childrens furniture but neither is it explicitly included. I make the choice not to make kids furniture but if I did I would make sure that my liability insurer knew about it and specifically mentioned it in the policy. Find out from your insurer how much the extra cost would be.

You need to explain to this client that this kind of work is not within the scope of your insurance and either pass politely on that basis or load into the price the extra cost of the insurance. If they are good lawyers they will appreciate dealing with a tradesman who is sensitive to all the issues relating to his dealings with them.

If you are frightened about her looking elsewhere because you think that you will lose future business, I would do the reserach myself to find somebody who can do what she wants and "project manage" the job with or for her.

Good luck

[John Hart]

My first inclination would be to ask your client in a very friendly way, "I like the idea of making playsets on a regular basis, and since you are a lawyer, do you know of any liability issues that I should be concerned with?" And then listen carefully to the answer. If the answer is, "Oh no...you don't have a thing to worry about." ...then you should be wary. But, if they graciously put on their lawyer hats and start explaining the intricacies of lawsuits and the type of insurance you should carry, then you might have a wealth of free advice that you can work with. As lawyers, they would most likely appreciate the question as long as it doesn't sound like you don't trust them.

[John Renzetti]

Robbie, Great advice already given. I would focus on the fact that building children's play structures is not something that you do and that you are not familiar with all the various (and ever changing) regulations and requirements that are in effect. Your insurance may not allow you to get into this type of work without some sort of rider.
There are some commercial outfits that specialize in this sort of thing. We looked at a structure made by Rainbow that was really nice and of course had a price tag to go with it. This things can be customized. One idea would be to steer them towards a company like this and then offer to work with them and the manufacturer so that the structure is exactly the way they want it. Rainbow uses redwood and stainless fittings.
Good luck
John

[Nick Mitchell]

Aside from the legal issues, my first thought is, how can you possibly make any money from this job when they could buy a jungle gym for so much less than you could make it for? Unless they want some completely bizarre and custom design this job seems like a lose/lose for both you and the customer.

[Michael Adelong]

Hehe... I'de say that it's time to mess with some lawyers. Simply tell them that you won't do that kind of work due to liability issues. Let 'em lie in their own bed.

:)
M-

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I wouldn't do it...liability issues are too great for just a signed piece of paper..especially when it comes to the neighborhood kids whose parents did not sign the papers. You're going to need insurance to cover this if you proceed. Lawyers can tear apart any letter anyone writes and make you 'the heavy'. There's no way I'd ever take a job like that, good client or no.

[Dan Forman]

I agree with the last two comments, just say no!

Dan

[Tom Jones III]

I'm not a lawyer, but half my family is. They mainly focus on protecting people from these kinds of lawsuits. Unfortunately you can have them sign an agreement that you would think clearly protects you and it might not help in the slightest. There are many rights that you are not allowed to sign away even if you want to (think about someone signing a contract that makes them a slave). You are also not allowed to sign away liability in many situations even if all parties agree.

No matter what you do, you must tell them that this is a heavily regulated field and you do not know all the regulations. Now, if you have just told them the previous line, it is going to be very hard to follow up with "but I'll make it anyway". It sounds like you either need to do a lot of homework or pass on the job. Is there someone you could pay to consult on the project?

[Donnie Raines]

Good advice shared:

If you have any buinsess libailty insurance that would cover your losses should something occur...just make sure(since you are dealing with kids) that the limits are high. You would be surprised how affordable higher limits truley are...in the big picture that is. This would cover you should something mal-function do to your neglegence.

If something were to happen to a child and it not be an issue with integerity of the playset(say a child simply fell off and hurt their leg etc...) then that would fall under the homeowners property liabilty.

Still, as others have suggested please speak with you insurance agent and the client prior to the contract.

[Nick Mitchell]

I just did this very job for a good client of mine, a lawyer. However, i didn't build the playset, i just assembled it. We never once spoke about liability because we didn't have to. He knows i put it together properly and I know he won't sue me. Now I know you Americans live in constant fear of lawsuits and you're wise to be very careful....I repeat my main problem with this job is THERE CAN'T POSSIBLY BE ANY MONEY IN IT!! :eek:

[Robby Phelps]

Thanks everyone for the good advice and suggestions. I have spoken with my insurance agent and to increase my liability coverage to include projects such as these is very affordable. I have not totally decided to take the project but seeings how the insurance would protect me I am considering it more seriously.


The other reason I am anxious to make it is that it will be a really fun project. They want a castle type structure with a drawbride and all. They also are willing to pay me really well for it. I guess we will see what happens.

Thanks again everyone.

[John Hart]

Good Luck!! Let us know how it all goes!

[Charles McKinley]

Do your research. I helped assemble a play set at the local park. It was a $20,000 set. The bid for the manufacture's contracted crew to set it up was $5,000. This is a very high dollar field and I think insurance is probably a very large part of it.

I couldn't believe the cost of some of this stuff. I helped write the grant proposals for some more equipment.

Get some of the catalogs from the playground suppliers with their price list.

Also, find out what the requirement are for the safety shock absorbent material that MUST be put down. Certified steel free wood mulch would be my last choice for many reasons but it is the cheapest. My first choice would be the molded granulated rubber, it stays put, the color can be selected; however, it is the most expensive.

Good luck,