Pictures as promissed

[Matthew N. Masail]

I promised I'd post the plane I come up with, now that it's done and I have a user plane of my own making, I can finally stop obsessing and start thinking about some real woodworking.
I made a wedge for it for now and maybe one day I'll make a lever cap, but truth be told I love the wedge, a light tap locks everything so well and it seems
more at home with the wooden body.

first, the obligatory shaving, some white oak:


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since I worked out a method for bedding the iron that works for me I'm getting zero chatter and a very solid feel also with thinner blades. it was very much worth learning.


here is what make this plane unique and very user friendly, what do you thing?

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[Charlie Stanford]

f wedges were good enough for Krenov then I suppose they're good enough for anybody. I think that style plane looks better (if looks matter) with a wedge anyway. Try that baby out on some gnarly grain and let us know how she works. It's handling straight grain just fine.

[Chris Griggs]

Very cool, Matthew. Looks like its working really well. Glad you found a design you like. Looks good.

[Jim Koepke]

I like the finger hollow.

jtk

[Matthew N. Masail]

f wedges were good enough for Krenov then I suppose they're good enough for anybody. I think that style plane looks better (if looks matter) with a wedge anyway. Try that baby out on some gnarly grain and let us know how she works. It's handling straight grain just fine.

would sapele count as gnarly?

[Charlie Stanford]

would sapele count as gnarly?

Plane some gnarly, twisted, and stringy old Ash that has 'gone brown.' If you can coax clear, unbroken shavings from it with no tearout then you have yourself a plane.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I don't even think I could buy ash in Israel not to mention old stringy stuff.... what about wild pink eucalyptus ?

[Matthew N. Masail]

Very cool, Matthew. Looks like its working really well. Glad you found a design you like. Looks good.
:)
Thanks Chris

[george wilson]

The finger hollow will not allow much re flattening of the sole,being so near to the bottom of the plane. I suggest that you make it higher up. I think my knuckles might get abraded holding them so close to the surface being planed. Nice shaving. The plane obviously works well.

I also recommend not making the top of the wedge so sharp edged. It will be easy to chip when adjusting it with a hammer.

[Chris Fournier]

The finger hollow basically makes 20% of the plane sole unstable. I'd drop this detail and strive for a fundamentally sound and robust design. In practice there really isn't any call for this detail.

[Charlie Stanford]

I don't even think I could buy ash in Israel not to mention old stringy stuff.... what about wild pink eucalyptus ?

I have no idea. I've never planed that particular wood before. Find some old gnarly olive wood and give it a whirl. I think that can be had in Israel.

[Mark Kornell]

Ribbon grain sapele would qualify as gnarly.

What is your method for bedding the iron?

[Bruce Haugen]

Ribbon grain sapele would qualify as gnarly.


Having made a wine cabinet of the stuff, I'd agree completely. That stuff is a huge PITA, but it sure looks nice.

[Charlie Stanford]

would sapele count as gnarly?

As a pure test of a plane I like wood where all is going pretty well and then rough patches are hit which can make a plane shudder and skip. Also rough patches at the end of the board, where the plane has to start in a tough area with clearer grain on up the board can be a challenge. Roey grain from end to end doesn't necessarily do that, stringy Ash (understanding that this is not available to you) with burly looking areas and patchy reversing grain does.

At the end of the day it only matters if it works in the woods you intend to use.

[Matthew N. Masail]

As a pure test of a plane I like wood where all is going pretty well and then rough patches are hit which can make a plane shudder and skip. Also rough patches at the end of the board, where the plane has to start in a tough area with clearer grain on up the board can be a challenge. Roey grain from end to end doesn't necessarily do that, stringy Ash (understanding that this is not available to you) with burly looking areas and patchy reversing grain does.

At the end of the day it only matters if it works in the woods you intend to use.

The Sapele I have is like that, I'll give it a try and post back. we have beautiful wild olive, but you have to be able to bandsaw it into lumber yourself. there is also beautiful wild Indian rosewood. same story as the olive.

[Matthew N. Masail]

The finger hollow will not allow much re flattening of the sole,being so near to the bottom of the plane. I suggest that you make it higher up. I think my knuckles might get abraded holding them so close to the surface being planed. Nice shaving. The plane obviously works well.

I also recommend not making the top of the wedge so sharp edged. It will be easy to chip when adjusting it with a hammer.i

The sole is Ipe, if it ever hanppes to wear all the way down I'd simply glue a new one.

I find the slot allows me to not worry about my fingers, I had to place it low because there has to be a certain thickness between the top of the slot and the top of the plane to give a confortable hold, and the Hock blade is only 4 1\2 inches long. I don't think it's perfect, but it's a new direction.

[Matthew N. Masail]

The finger hollow basically makes 20% of the plane sole unstable. I'd drop this detail and strive for a fundamentally sound and robust design. In practice there really isn't any call for this detail.

how do you know? I've yet to come across a non toted plane that is as comfortable as I'm trying to achieve. this is a new idea. if you have any plane the feel really good to you I'd love to hear about it.


I'm not worried about the sole, it's an area that is pretty much missing in a coffin smoother anyway.

[David Weaver]

As long as you keep your fingers loose while you use it, it probably doesn't amout to much hurt.

The reason there weren't conforming grips for people to wrap their fingers around onto a coffin smoother, though, is probably partially due to the fact that you'll have a lot fewer "I think I might have arthritis" feelings if you can't close your grasp.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Ribbon grain sapele would qualify as gnarly.

What is your method for bedding the iron?


I use a candle the blacken it. but instead of trying to get an even fit over the entire bed, and hollow the middle of the bed lightly with a scraping chisel,
and then fettle the bed so that the iron beds in as following.


1. at the top (or about 2.5 inches up from the cutting edge), evenly on each side of the iron and less or not at all in the middle.


2. for the last 1\4 to 1\2 inch on the blade near the edge, I fettled the bed until this area beds tightly. the black from the candle will wipe of leaving shiny metal. if the bedding
is not so tight the black stuff won't come of as cleanly, so this gives a good indication for the bedding. I make sure it's as even as possible so the blade adjusts evenly, and aim for a slightly less tight fit in the middle of the blade, to insure there is no hump.


the wedge gets a bedding too, mostly to insure it's holding evenly, but I usually hollow the middle a little to insure in pressed down on the blade where it should.

All of this may sound a little overkill, but I find it makes a real difference, the wedge will lock with a light tap and the plane feels solid even when pushed hard.

[Matthew N. Masail]

As long as you keep your fingers loose while you use it, it probably doesn't amout to much hurt.

The reason there weren't conforming grips for people to wrap their fingers around onto a coffin smoother, though, is probably partially due to the fact that you'll have a lot fewer "I think I might have arthritis" feelings if you can't close your grasp.

Dave, I'm a classical guitarist, so this is acually one of the reasons I'm looking so hard into ergonomics, to preserve my hands. are you saying it's better not to have a closed grip?

[David Weaver]

Yes. It's different than the tension you get from classical guitar with your thumb on the back of the neck, it's more like the grasping claw type of tension that causes trouble for people who constantly grasp hammer or small power tool handles tightly. You can avoid gripping the plane tightly when you're not tired, but if you get into this and start working a lot of wood that's coming from a coarser plane, you will get tired and that's when you'll notice yourself doing it.

Your back hand is supplying a push, which will come from the meat of your hand, there's no great reason for a closed grip with the back hand, just the same as there's no good reason to grip a toted plane tightly.

I'm pretty sure it was george who mentioned on here before that one of the functions of the older offset totes was to force you to work with a looser grip, or some such thing. I should never try to quote george, his answers have a lot more precision than my memory.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Can you post a picture of how you hold this plane? I wrote up a quite long post, but decided it's not important. I just want to understand how you are holding it and how you were holding before that was uncomfortable.

[george wilson]

The early type totes on planes were offset all the way to the side of the plane. In planes found on the Mary Rose,the totes were just dovetailed into one side of the plane. And,they were short,to accommodate only 2 or 3 fingers. The pinkie,and perhaps the next finger rested on the right side of the plane. The web of the thumb was used to push the plane. This avoided carpal tunnel from pushing a plane all day,as the workmen had to do. In the 18th.C.,the handle began to be moved in some. In the 19th. C.,the handles were fully centered,as if the old lessons had been forgotten. The 23 pictures of the beechwood jack plane show a typical 18th.C. plane with offset handle.

The boxwood plane I made in 1970 has a front grip in 18th.C. French style.It,and the rear grip use the web of the thumb also.

[Chris Fournier]

how do you know? I've yet to come across a non toted plane that is as comfortable as I'm trying to achieve. this is a new idea. if you have any plane the feel really good to you I'd love to hear about it.


I'm not worried about the sole, it's an area that is pretty much missing in a coffin smoother anyway.

I guess I don't know but after 20 plus years of woodworking and guitar playing I can say that your plane modification would be of no help to hand fatigue for me, in fact it would encourage me to close my grip and increase fatigue especially at the fingers.

As soon as an attempt is made to create the perfect ergonomics on any object I find that the versatility of the object is compromised and it is then really only suited to the one task performed while it was designed ergonomically. I have never found a lightly rounded rectalinear wooden body plane to be uncomfortable. Truth is I rarely would have one in my hands long enough to experience discomfort as I shift through the planes required on the given task.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks George for the great info!


I hold the plane many different ways, but I couldn't find "the perfect" grip for this one, I working on altering the shape a bit. the hollow seems to be good at first but now I'm starting to dislike it. but it does give me somthing, we'll have to see over the next week.


perhaps I should clarify that I am trying to make a plane that feels so right that I can forget I'm holding it. don't ask me why, but this is my goal right now.


in any case, I'm back to the drawing board for and going to try something new, I'm enjoying this. I wish had some 3inch thick hard maple or something.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Then I think you should even move away from the idea that plane is supposed to be this shape and size. You might even have to consider spherical shape or totally asymmetrical, no? If you have something like Play-Doh (or something you can change shape in an instant and make mock up, or squeeze and mold the shape to your most comfortable shape) maybe you can try making something oddly shaped mockup.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I could see the groove you've got being useful, but more if it was something shallow like the "handi-grips" on block planes - same "footprint", just shallow and not a huge notch.

Chris F. brings up a good point; I think the joy of an un-handled plane is the ability to grip it in a variety of different ways as one grip gets tiresome - in this plane, you've kind of made yourself hold it only one way. Probably less of an issue in a smoother which hopefully gets used for fewer passes than most bench planes.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Acually for me, I plan to build guitars, and will probaly use the smoother more than any other, for working the top and back.

I worked on it a little more today and it's much better. here is the new shape, not as "sharp" ended as before and the 45 or also angle helps to direct the pressure in the right way
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here are a couple of grips that seem to be working for me so far


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this is what
the hollow gives me, I don't have to bend my pinky to keep it out of harms way. it's still not perfect but it seems to add somthing, maybe it also takes somthing and it would be better without. I'm not sure yet.
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[David Weaver]

middle row left picture is a good grip. You can keep the grip mid work without having to squeeze.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks David, I did find that one to be easy on the hand stress wise. I think I'm going to leave this plane as is, I worked with it a little tonight and it's quite nice to use, I'll see how it grows on me. I only wish it was 50% or so heavier, Sapele feels really good in the hand but it's not that heavy, about the same as beech.

[Pat Barry]

Hi Matt, I like your concept. If it works for you then it really is what is important. I suggest using it as is and getting to know it better. Maybe this will develop further for you with use and a few gentle tweaks here and there as you get more comfortable with it.