Making a lever cap - need advice

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi guys! I've been busy lately trying to work out a good plane design - and thanks to your help in my previous post on this subject, I have done some experimenting, and came up with something that, I think, is very promising. it's based on the classics, "infill like" looking so I would be real nice to make a lever cap for it. (blade is a 4 1\2 inch long Hock with chipbreaker)


* the cross pin is 5mm diameter stainless steel. Ideally the lever cap should match.


1. do I stand a chance it the world working with stainless, using a belt + disk sander and files..? do I need a special tap?


2. how can I cut a half round into the top of the levercap to fit into the cross pin? I was thinking of looking for a router bit with the right diameter and going only
about 0.5mm or less deep at a time... could this work with stainless? any other ideas of doing the accurately?


3. if stainless is a problem to work... can mild steel or something like that be good enough? my only concert would be rust and the point on contact with the blade.


4. the lever cap will need to be about 10mm thick... as I had originally made the plane blank for a krenov smoother with a wedge, so at 10mm thick I could make a lever cap out of wood, the sole is Ipe so an Ipe cap would look ok, but do you think this would hold as well as a metal one?


*I'd rather not use brass because it doesn't really go well with the wood I have used.




Thanks again :)

P.S
Derek if you read this, I was wondering how the LN tool event went? I didn't see a post about it.

[David Weaver]

Get yourself some 1/2" thick brass bar stock. It's not cheap, but it's what you want to use. Depending on how perfect you need the groove to be, you can file it. You can work it with hacksaw and files without worrying about hardening, etc.

If you make something out of steel, you'll have to lacquer it, and it will be harder working than brass.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi David, there is a place almost walking distance from me that has a large raw metal warehouse, they will cut me any piece to any size and charge by wight, and the prices are not high thank G-D, so price isn't the concern, it will look better with stainless, are you basically saying working with stainless would be a PITA?

[David Weaver]

What little I've done with it, yes. Brass works nicely, and as you'd expect with files and saws, especially if you get one of the brass alloys designed to be machined.

[Matthew N. Masail]

mmmmm..... will a 5mm brass rod be strong enough to hold the tension?
what do you think about a wooden levercap ?

[David Weaver]

should be plenty strong. I think I used 1/4" mild steel, but there is very little distance between the lever cap and the side of the plane, and that size brass should be fine.

Not a fan of wood unless it's a wedge.

[Matthew N. Masail]

can I use somthing like this for the slot http://www.toolstoday.com/p-4969-core-box-router-bits.aspx ?

I can use it with brass right? what about if I give it a try with stainless, would I ruin the bit?

[David Weaver]

You'll ruin the bit with brass. I wouldn't touch steel with it. I don't know if you could get it to make a ragged cut if you used it in a Drill press with some kind of home-made lateral vise with the knowledge you were going to trash it.

What I would do (i've filed that slot before with a round file) is probably make a saw cut with a hack saw, open it a little bit with a taper saw file and then finish the cut with a round file. The hacksaw should cut right where you want the slot to be, and the taper saw file will give the round file something more stable to ride in, and then file it slowly with a priority on accuracy, or it will be shaped like a bow tie and wider at the ends than the middle.

[Matthew N. Masail]

got it. metal is no friendly material to work... thank you :) one last question, if I used a white bronze or somthing instead of brass? brass color dosen't go with brown wood so much... I don't feel right about it.

[David Weaver]

bronze would be fine. Ask them for something that machines or files easily.

[Dave Beauchesne]

can I use somthing like this for the slot http://www.toolstoday.com/p-4969-core-box-router-bits.aspx ?

I can use it with brass right? what about if I give it a try with stainless, would I ruin the bit?

Matthew:

While not a machinist, I work at a Pulp and Paper Mill where there is SS everywhere, and I have to use it for many clamps, brackets etc.
that I need as part of my job.

As for the groove you want to mill - you would need it done with the right tooling - a router bit WOULD NOT work IMHO. Why not file the groove??? SS plugs up files easily, so be aware of that and card your files often to keep things cutting well.

SS is a different animal - I like it for its non- corrosive tendencies, I hate it because it galls threads easily, it is tough on drill bits, hacksaw blades, hole saws etc. We almost exclusively use type 316, which is non-magnetic ( we got a bunch of off shore elbows last year that were magnetic - heaven knows what was in them ) and quite corrosion resistant with some of the nasty chemicals at the Mill; there are other alloys, but I have had little experience with them and I doubt they are too much different for purposes you wish.
The machinists at work tell me when drilling SS, to use slow speed, plenty of pressure, and lots of cutting fluid - that has worked for me- oh yes - sharp tooling as well.

To sum it up from my perspective - SS probably isn't something you want to cut your teeth on on a project like this - make one in regular steel ( still have to have the groove milled or filed ) or follow David W's advice and make one in brass - plenty strong and nice to work.

Don't discount files to do a lot of the work for you - a file is a wonderful tool if wielded properly, and total control is you and you alone, something that can't always be said when working something like a lever cap with power tools.

Good luck and show us what you come up with!

Dave Beauchesne

[Matthew N. Masail]

sorry for bieng like a kid jumping up with ideas... what about aluminium?

[David Weaver]

Tasteless and gross looking. I've never filed it, but it cuts easily. It will get dinged up, and oxidize and look like structural material.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Ok thanks guys! Dave and David :) I will try to get some white colored bronze and ask them for stuff that work well. in the meanwhile I have a brass screw in the mockup wooden levercap to see if it grows on me. have a great weekend!

[george wilson]

I agree 100% that brass is your best choice. If you have a decent bandsaw you can saw the shape out using a used wood blade. I have cut 1/2" brass with as 1/4" 6 tip blade many times before I ever had a metal cutting bandsaw.

Stainless will be infinitely more work in every thing you try to do with it. Difficult too tap,too,unless you are experienced. White bronze is o.k.,too,but some bronzes are VERY TOUGH. Consult with the metal merchants.

[don wilwol]

I made my first cap out of steel . I've made a few since. Low carbon like 1018 is decent to work with and it's what a lot of plane makers use. Brass or bronze is a little easier though. If you look through my "infill in process" thread you can see them.

[Mark Kornell]

If you're looking for a cutter to put a groove in brass, consider a round-nose end mill. I wouldn't cut metal with a router even if you can find a collet adapter, as the bit speed is too fast. But a series of cuts using a drill press followed by some filing/sanding would work well.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I'm a little conflicted, I was under the impression that brass works well with carbide tooling, here is why I thought it's ok, especially for a 2mm deep groove
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239301

[Zander Kale]

I agree with the responses I've read but I'll reply anyway.
I use 3/16" (basically 5mm) cross pins for 2" irons often, never had a problem. I do use O-1 steel as that what I can get in drill rod (basically ground nice and round, unlike what you would get at the hardware store). I think silicon bronze welding rod would also work. Probably brass too.

1) I've made a stainless infill (304). It can be a pain to work but polishes beautifully. I ran a 3/8'x16 tap through the 1/2" lever cap and it was tense but worked just fine. Beware that stainless work hardens very fast so you need to be pretty aggressive when you machine it.

2) On a milling machine with a round bit (see photo below) or use chainsaw sharpening files. Hacksaw or use a triangular file to make a starter groove, then use the round file to shape it.
DO NOT use a router on steel but routers work OK on brass. Jigging could be an issue and brass chips are very hot.

3) I like mild steel for lever caps. Cheap, workable and more than strong enough. You don't need to coat them but it is nice. Chemical bluing looks good.

Here is the lever cap I just made, which I'm assuming is somewhat like what you have in mind. It is mild steel and brass with a groove for a 3/16" cross pin. The screw is stainless. Note that it has a mild arc, which I like.
http://zkprojectnotebook.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/cap-top.jpg?w=500

[george wilson]

If you bandsaw brass,DO WEAR safety glasses. The little chips bounce around,and you don't want one in your eye.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Zander I really like that ! I'd love to see the plane, if it has one yet?


I decided to try an idea I had before going out to buy thick brass and a router bit and files, here it is: what do you think of the idea and all?


* it's epoxied together. the screw came out too high up and projects too much from the bottom, but it's only a prototype. if I decide to go this way the top will also have a layer of veneer to conceal the screws.
the screw also needs a head, but I'm quite happy with the way the stud came out, just a file on the drill press.

BTW I bandsawed the brass, cut's almost as good as wood! thanks George! but given, it was only 3mm thick. do you think I can cut 10mm thick or should I not try?

anyway here are the pics :

261093261090261091261092

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matthew

I am not sure if this helps, but this was an article i posted several years ago on making lever caps and lever cap screws with the usual woodworking equipment only ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Making%20Lever%20Caps%20and%20Lever%20Cap%20Screws %20in%20the%20Backyard.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi Derek,

I've read you blog many times. love it. but as you can see the plane body already have a cross pin located way to far out for your methoud. I'm thinking maybe I'll just use a wedge

[george wilson]

Matthew,I don't know what bandsaw you have. I can cut 1/2"(13mm) brass on my old 14" Delta with 6 tooth per inch,1/4" Lennox blades just fine. I use a used blade,but,somehow,cutting a little brass actually seems to sharpen the blade! Possible that the brass gets compacted into a "false" or built up edge on the teeth. I wouldn't count on the "resharpened" blade to last too long,though. The impacted metal will wear down.

In cutting metal on a metal lathe with HSS cutters,the metal you are cutting always builds up a false edge of impacted metal,pressure welded onto the cutter,which is doing the cutting,if you are doing a lot of cutting or taking heavy cuts. This false edge gets pretty prominent with the high pressures found with metal cutting machines. It has to be ground off eventually.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks for the info George! I'll be experimenting with making lever caps on and off now. I have plans to make "infill' planes (first off a panel plane) but only the sides will be brass, the infill itself will form a wooden sole. but I won't do so until I have a lever cap worked out. thanks again!

[Zander Kale]

I really like your idea of brass and wood for the lever cap and think it would work very well. Glue alone would also probably be just fine, just be careful if you glue and then shape [with power tools] - brass gets hot, conducts heat well and can cause the glue joint to fail (I've tested this more than once).

Thanks for your complements on my lever cap. The plane is just about done, I'm waiting for the finish to dry to the final assembly and adjustments. Here is a early test photo:
http://zkprojectnotebook.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/first-blood.jpg?w=500

[Russell Sansom]

I would add something not mentioned so far that might be food for thought about wearing eye protection.
To twist it around just a little: You would far rather get a chip of ferrous metal in your eye than brass or SS. I'll just leave it at that.

[Chris Fournier]

SS is for the big boys who have metal working shops and understand the various alloys and how best to machine them. SS does not suffer newbies or fools - I've been both!