Is this warped table top safe to put through my drum sander?

[Michael Dunn]

Check it out. I have a customer that wants me to refinish this table top. My first though was to put it through the drum sander. Will is self flatten once in my WM-718? Or will it sand the high parts to thin?

Also, what color finish would this be? I'd say its trying to emulate a red mahogany. It looks to be Poplar as I can see from the unfinished parts of the underside. Any thoughts?

I dot know how well the color is translating in the photo online, but the square in the middle of the underside has the green streaks characteristic of Poplar.

[keith micinski]

I would think you out want to flatten the top and the sander won't do it on it's own. I usually put tape in the corners that are rocking and then flatten the one side. Then you take the tape off and flip it over to make the faces parallel.

[Tai Fu]

If you sand the top with a thickness sander all you will do is (after many many passes) is make it too thin to be used as a tabletop. My suggestion is probably to use a random orbital sander...

[Michael Dunn]

The two faces are already parallel. The table top has a butt jointed 'skirt' beneath it. This held it flat. The top of the table was flat, to my eye, until I removed the skirt. I only wanted to remove the finish with the drum sander.

Would that be ok? I even thought if feeding it through with the skirt on.

[Michael Dunn]

Here's a pic of the skirt, which I now think may actually be referred to as an 'apron'.

[Dan Hahr]

Assuming the top is solid, sanding the top would be my last resort. Before I learned anything about refinishing, I'd start there also. However, now I'd start with a good stripper and clean it to the bare wood. Depending on the final look you want to achieve, you can smooth the top or remove the top layer of wood with a plane or sander. A drum sander is going to be risky unless you can be sure to remove an even layer with each pass. If the top is shot, I'd use a smoothing plane on it until it was clean and then finish sand it. But this is going to leave you with a very new looking table top. I'd probably strip it and clean it, then finish it, leaving as much of the patina I could.

Dan

[Michael Dunn]

Sadly, I'm ashamed to admit, I don't have any planes. Well, I have a No. 7, but its not tuned up. I haven't used a hand plane since shop class in H.S.

[Stephen Cherry]

I vote also for the chemical stripper followed by sanding. If you sand too much or plane, you will mess up the profile on the edge. Plus, in my opinion, planes are not great for removing finish. (this would probably be lacquer) The card scraper can be great for removing degraded finishes, but won't help on the profile edge.

For refinishing, I would recommend a couple of coats of zinser seal coat, then transtint dye in zinser sealcoat for color. The advantage of this is that if you don't like it, it can be removed easily with alcohol.
http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/tds/CBG_ZIN_TDS_BULLS%20EYE%20SEALCOAT%20Universal%20S anding%20Sealer_2010.pdf

[Michael Dunn]

Just to clarify, my customer only wishes for me to refinish the top surface of the table top. Not the profile. For cost reasons.

[Bruce Page]

I would not use a drum sander, especially if it belongs to a customer. You run a strong risk of losing the edge detail symmetry. Use an ROS.

[Erik Christensen]

chemically strip the top and edge and then asses what you want to do next. many times the process of removing heavy finish layers with solvent actually deposits some in the bare wood scratches filling them in and leaving a relatively even surface color. every cycle of stripper removes more finish, lightens the overall color and evens out differences between the finished areas and bare wood defects. If you get to a point where you like the look - stop. If the customer is happy with the appearance shoot a clear topcoat (I like water poly). Sanding to bare wood should be your last resort - there is no way - even with unlimited hand labor to get the edge profile to bare wood without blurring its contours. If I had to sand the top I would re-profile the edge - it you don't it is almost impossible to get the top and edge finished identically.

[Dan Bowman]

My first thought was it's probably veneer, in which case sanding is going to be delicate. Do you know if it's solid or not?

[Stan Figura]

I have been very impressed with Star10 stripper. It comes in two parts. Part 1 is a thick jelly. Part 2 is a thin liquid. It worked extremely well. Rockier and Woodcraft stock it. http://www.starten.com/

[David C. Roseman]

Michael, +1 to Dan's impression. Veneer over a poplar substrate is my strong guess, judging by the construction, and especially the type of edge treatment. You may be able to tell for certain by looking closely at the reveal under a bright light.

Either way, if the top flattens nicely when screwed to the apron, not sure why you are thinking it needs flattening at all when disassembled. Chemical stripping, combined with judicial use of a good cabinet scraper with a fresh burr, is for sure the first thing I'd try. If it has deep scratches, that's another issue, so let us know.

David

[Mike Wilkins]

I have refinished many pieces similar to the one you are working on. While it is tempting to run it through a drum sander to speed up the finish removal process, please don't. Like others have stated, it is a good possibility that this is a veneered piece. Agressive sanding will remove this layer real quick. I only use my drum sander after planing lumber, while it is good and flat. Using a chemical stripper is the most effective and least invasive method of getting rid of most of the finish. And if there are no deep scratches, just use some fine steel wool to smooth out the surface and take care of the molded edge. This will also leave a surface that has the pores filled, leaving a smoother surface than sanding will produce.

[John TenEyck]

As others have said, I'd use a chemical stripper. I did a mahogany piece recently with a molded edge, and I taped off the edge with 3M blue fine line tape and burnished it really well. Then I applied the stripper to the top and removed the shellac finish. After it was clean I neutralized the stripper and reapplied color using Transtint in Sealcoat shellac. When that was done I removed the tape. The molded edge was perfect; none of the stripper got under it. I shot everything with another couple of coats of Sealcoat to finish it and it looked like new.

John

[Kevin Bourque]

In the time it takes to read this thread you could have chemically stripped the table top....okay maybe thats a slight exaggeration :D, but I have refinished scores of pieces in my life and sanding off the old finish was never the best idea. If its a veneered piece it will be ruined by sanding. If it's a solid piece you will lose much of the patina by sanding.

[Tai Fu]

I hated chemical stripping because it's messy and hazardous...

[Pat Barry]

I am refinishing our dining room table. It is a cherry veneer over a lumber core. The top I guessed was a lacquer finish. I tried lacquer thinner and it quickly dissolved the finish so that it could be carefully scraped away (I used a safety razor blade (yeah I know) and dragged it across the table top). I did the application and scraping two times. On the molded edges I used steel wool and lacquer thinner. Granted it is messy, but it was very effective. Now all I need is to refinish. I plan to dye and stain to get a dark cherry look. I only intend to sand with maybe 220 and do that lightly so as not to ruin this table top.

Here is a picture after stripping half of the top

260973

[Mark Bolton]

The problem with the stripper route is if you priced this job based on feeding it through your sander a couple passes - coat of stain, and a quick finish, your sunk. Any stripper option is long and costly. It costs for the stripper minutes to put it on, many minutes to clean it off, god forbid it is a veneer and the stripper fouls the veneer, then hours to dry, hope you don't have to re-apply, then sand, sand, sand, oh and sand again, seal coat stain, finish...

It all depends on how you priced the job.

There is no way you can strip and refinish for te price of an anticipate few passes through the sander, stain, spray.

[John TenEyck]

The problem with the stripper route is if you priced this job based on feeding it through your sander a couple passes - coat of stain, and a quick finish, your sunk. Any stripper option is long and costly. It costs for the stripper minutes to put it on, many minutes to clean it off, god forbid it is a veneer and the stripper fouls the veneer, then hours to dry, hope you don't have to re-apply, then sand, sand, sand, oh and sand again, seal coat stain, finish...

It all depends on how you priced the job.

There is no way you can strip and refinish for te price of an anticipate few passes through the sander, stain, spray.

Well, you either do a job the right way, or soon you don't have to worry about any job. If you priced it thinking you could run it through your drum sander only to realize afterwards that you should strip it instead you either eat it or go back to the customer and tell them why you should do it another way and it will cost more. The customer can choose whether or not to go ahead, but you will have preserved your reputation in either case. To plunge ahead and run the risk of ruining the piece because you feel locked in by your quote is a very poor strategy. No, it's just plain foolish.

John

[keith micinski]

The first step is to find out if it is a veneered top or not. If it is solid I am not sure what the big fuss over using a drum sander is. I can sand a very fine coat off of anything with out damaging it, and then finish it off with a random orbital and your done. Stripping it is going to get on the edge no matter how careful you are and then you are going to be in a world of hurt. if the profile loses a little height evenly from sanding it will look much better unevenness from a random orbital or discoloration from stripping.

[Mark Bolton]

Well, you either do a job the right way, or soon you don't have to worry about any job.

John

My point exactly

[Bill Wyko]

Is it possible to leave it attached to the skirt to hold it flat? If so, do extremely light passes. If it has a veneer top you'll go right through it, veneers are typically 1/40th thick so you'll have no room for error.

[Michael Dunn]

Thanx for the advice guys! Now to clarify the misunderstandings.

1. I am literally only refinishing the top of this table top. Not the edges. I know, I know. This is what she wanted.

2. I am not trying to flatten it. I was only concerned about potentially putting a warped board through a drum sander.

3. I was no insisting upon using the drum sander. I was only inquiring about it as a possibility.

After further review of the work piece it is definitely a Mahogany veneer over Poplar. I ended up using my Festool ETS-125 and sanded it successfully from 80, 180 (120 is on order), and 220. I did also end up using some fine steel wool to remove some white paint splatters from the edge profile.

Thanx for the advice guys!

[David C. Roseman]

Michael, great! Glad you were able to resolve this so well. Would love to see an "after pic" if you have one. :)

David

[Michael Dunn]

Here's a pic before I put on some gel stain. I'm thinking GF's Brown Mahogany. I bought Georgian Cherry too. I have some scrap Mahogany to test on.

I'm noticing a stain of some sort near the middle. Any clue what it could be or how to get rid of it? I sanded to 220 and removed the saw dust with Mineral Spirits. I didn't notice this before the Mineral Spirits.

The first pic is long after the MS evaporated. The next several were showing the MS in some spots as I wiped it.

[Michael Dunn]

Oops. The first one is actually fully wiped and moistened with MS. I guess they loaded backwards.