Scraping plane vs 4 1/2 smoothing plane

[Frederick Skelly]

Good evening folks. Thanks for allowing me to join the forum! Im just beginning to understand how valuable it is to mix a few key handtools in with my power tools.

Ive got a well tuned block plane, a well tuned #9 plane and stones to sharpen them. I need a plane that will get rid of planer marks. I used a sharp cardscraper but after I finished I still saw a few planer ripples. (Hacked me off.) Ive been reading and I think I need either 4 1/2 smooth plane or a scraper plane. Trouble is that I only have enough money for one or the other. (Im shocked to see Stanley 4 1/2s going for $88 and higher on ebay.)

I like to work maple, mahogany, poplar and pine. Which of the two planes should I buy and why? Can you please give me a hand?

Thanks!

[Chris Griggs]

4 1/2 or other bench plane....FWIW a 4 will be a lot less expensive (if your gong vintage) and will do the same thing as a 4 1/2.

In regards to the scraper plane, a bench plane will be easier to setup, faster at getting the job done, more versatile, nicer to use, and leave a better surface. I view a scraper plane as a special purpose tool.... Then again, I don't have a scraper plane so I probably shouldn't be making a recommendation either way...that said I've never felt a need for one either. A basic smoother plane can do everything you need on the woods you list.


....also, welcome to the Creek. You should list your location so in your profile. There might be folks who live near you who can help you out by showing instead of just telling.

[David Weaver]

A stock stanley 4 or millers falls 9 (same plane). Read around about how to use the double iron, there is information in droves if you google it.

A scraper plane has very little use once you do that. Stock iron and stock chipbreaker is fine, too.

Proper use of the chipbreaker also opens up the little light planes like the #4 to harder woods. If you can eliminate the tearout (as you do with the chipbreaker), all of the sudden woods that seem too hard for smooth use of the plane are easy to plane.

I started in your spot, ended up with 4 4 1/2s at the same time, as well as a large and small scraper plane. I have the small scraper plane still to condition the sole of japanese planes. all of the other planes are gone, replaced by a cheap millers falls #9....cost 20 bucks.

One of those 4 1/2s was a LN. I like a stock MF 9 better than a LN 4 1/2, I can plane more area faster with it. Sounds counterintuitive, but it is true.

If you just cannot deny yourself a scraper plane, make sure to check out david charlesworth's method for setting the burr on them. It's fantastic.

[don wilwol]

a well tuned #9 plane and stones to sharpen them. I need a plane that will get rid of planer marks. Thanks!
So why doesn't the well tuned #9 work? I've got both smoothers and scrapers and use them all in different situations. Its not really about the type of wood, but the type of grain. Some maple planes smooth and nice with a smoother, other (especially knots and similar) need a scraper. If I had to have one and only one, it would be a high angle infill, but who has one and only one? That's just crazy talk.

[Chris Griggs]

I assumed he meant a Stanley no 9 miter plane not a MF no 9 smooth plane???? If you have a well tuned MF no. 9, I agree there is no NEED to get another plane for what you want to do.

[Steve Baumgartner]

I have both a 4 1/2 smoother and a scraper plane, and I would advise you to get a smoother plane before the scraper (as others have said, a 4 would be fine). I've tried removing planer marks with both, and much prefer the smoother plane. It leaves a cleaner surface and is easier to use. The scraper tends to chatter unless your technique is just right. The scraper plane is better if you have wild grain or knots and can't seem to get the smoother to stop tearing out (as others have noted, this is largely a matter of sharpness and chip breaker setting, but not all of us can consistently get it right). However, unless it is a large area of difficulty, a card scraper works fine at a tiny fraction of the cost.

[paul cottingham]

I use hand planes for pretty much everything, and rather than a scraper plane, I use the LV version of a number 80 scraper. Works great, very easy to adjust. But I use my hand planes much more often, a well adjusted and well sharpened hand plane is the way to go. I prefer bevel up planes for a bunch of odd reasons, but you can't go wrong with a 4 or 4 1/2 with an aftermarket blade.

[Jim Koepke]

Frederick,

Welcome to the Creek. As Chris already said, you may live near another member who would be happy to have you come by with some work pieces and test drive the tools you are considering.

It is not very often that my scrapper gets used. With a sharp blade in my plane set for a light cut it hasn't been necessary most of the time.

There may be some confusion about your #9. Is it a miter plane or a Millers Falls smoother?

In my opinion, the #4-1/2 is a useful size for some jobs. It is a little more difficult to use than a #4 due to the wider blade.

For removing machine marks a plane the size of a #5 or #6 is my choice. Most of the time my #6 is used for this work. It mostly depends on the size of the piece being worked at the time.

jtk

[Terry Beadle]

If you are noticing planer ripples, you are probably not using your jack plane long enough before going to the smoother.

A jack plane should be taking 4 ~ 6 thou shavings and a smoother should take about 2 thou. So I would set the #9 up for a 5 ~ 6 thou shaving and not readjust it for smoother work until the planer ripples are gone.

Be sure to put a curve to the cutting edge of the plane too so you don't get plane cutting edge ridges.

A good lamp or light source should be adjusted so you can see the blade cutting action clearly. Also a #2 pencil tick marks on the target surfaces will aid you.

Ignore any thing I've just said if you already know...I'm just sayin'

Enjoy the process !

[Frederick Skelly]

Well, mine is a miller falls 9. I just wasnt smart enough to realize its equal to a number 4. Feelin rather foolish just now.

But you just saved me some money. Thanks for teachin me guys. I appreciate it!

[Jim R Edwards]

I use a LV bevel up jack to remove planer marks. In most cases it leaves a surface well enough that a smoother is not needed.

[Jim Koepke]

Well, mine is a miller falls 9. I just wasnt smart enough to realize its equal to a number 4. Feelin rather foolish just now.

Learning should never make one feel the fool, you were merely uninformed.


But you just saved me some money. Thanks for teachin me guys. I appreciate it!

That is the great thing about this forum, just about anyone can learn something here with all the different approaches to proceeding through a project.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

Yes. I called LV Thursday and they recommended the bevel up over either their 4 1/2 or their scraper. I think Ill wait a bit and learn to use my Miller as a smoother.

Btw, can anyone suggest a good book on hand planes? Something that teaches how to use them? All i have are magazine articles just now.

[Andrew Hughes]

David Charlesworth has very good books on furniture making techniques.With hand plane uses.

[Jim Koepke]

Btw, can anyone suggest a good book on hand planes? Something that teaches how to use them? All i have are magazine articles just now.

Have you looked in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs?

It recently became hidden in the Neanderthal Haven Announcements:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

In section 4 Tool Usage Maintenance/Tuning are a few threads on planes and usage. Some of the other sections also have threads discussing different facets of planes, usage, set up and care.

Chris Schwarz has written a lot about hand planes and even discusses them with Roy Underhill in this episode:

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/3100/3105.html

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

Wow. Thats great stuff. Thanks for pointing it out. I also made note of Charlesworth and will look him up. Thanks!

[David Weaver]

Yes. I called LV Thursday and they recommended the bevel up over either their 4 1/2 or their scraper. I think Ill wait a bit and learn to use my Miller as a smoother.

Btw, can anyone suggest a good book on hand planes? Something that teaches how to use them? All i have are magazine articles just now.

If you stick around in the hobby for a long while, I think you'll prefer the bailey design to the bevel up planes. It does take a little bit longer to get used to using the cap iron properly vs. just closing the mouth on a BU plane. Either one will do the job, but it costs you zero to use the one you have. If you decide you don't like the stock iron, there are scads of replacement irons out there that are very good, just make sure if you get one, you don't get some super thick monstrous iron, it'll be a waste of your effort in a plane that doesn't lack anything in its original design (as in, with experience, there won't be anything you can't plane with the stock thickness iron without getting chatter, etc).

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I agree with David's comments in his last post, I'll also add that I've found an after market chipbreaker a better return on investment than an aftermarket blade, at least as far as performance is involved, (reducing chatter, etc.) at least as long as you've got an iron in decent shape that doesn't have an edge that fails immediately.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys!

[Tommy Martin]

Have you checked out youtube? I find it very helpful to see some of the techniques in action.


Yes. I called LV Thursday and they recommended the bevel up over either their 4 1/2 or their scraper. I think Ill wait a bit and learn to use my Miller as a smoother.

Btw, can anyone suggest a good book on hand planes? Something that teaches how to use them? All i have are magazine articles just now.