WARNING concerning Access Used Lasers

[Joe Flores]

Hello all just want to tell you about a problem I am having with Access Used Lasers. They sold my laser per an agreement we had. Received $6000.00 deposit. After they sold the laser they did not pay me the last $6000.00. Now they are not answering my phone calls. I trusted Robert now it looks like I will have to sue them,access@usedlasers.com or via phone at 715-386-8021. Be careful out there folks, I will keep you posted. Joe Flores

[Mike Null]

Joe

I have sent a PM to you regarding this matter.

[Paul Phillips]

Joe. I hope you are able to get things worked out. I do know that they have been around for a long time and as far as I know have always been a reputable business. I would say give it a little more time before you think the worst, hopefully it's just a temporary problem and will be resolved soon. Let us know what happens.
Paul

[Sandy Henry]

Joe, I want to send you a personal message but I don't know how to do it! Could you call me? (574) 699-7867 Thanks

[Keith Outten]

I spent over an hour on the phone with Rob several days ago. Rob told me that his company is in fact suffering based on the results of the economic downturn several years ago.

[Bruce Volden]

I spent over an hour on the phone with Rob several days ago. Rob told me that his company is in fact suffering based on the results of the economic downturn several years ago.
Keith,

Thanks for chiming in here. It, in my mind, would have been an easy post to take down. Yes, there have been some economical things happening--we are, after all a niche market. I know my little side business has suffered greatly! But, I don't really care as I too am retired (like you). Been thinking of selling out the whole works for pennies on the dollar but everything is paid for and and besides it's still so much fun!!

Bruce

[Ross Moshinsky]

I spent over an hour on the phone with Rob several days ago. Rob told me that his company is in fact suffering based on the results of the economic downturn several years ago.

Not really an excuse is it? He owes the OP $6000. Economic downturn or not, he should pay him in a timely fashion. If he doesn't want to run his business in an appropriate manner, he shouldn't be in business.

[Mike Null]

Are you serious?

[Ross Moshinsky]

Are you serious?

Me? Absolutely. He owes the OP $6000. They were paid when the laser sold. Now it's time to pay the OP. It's really not all that complicated. If for whatever reason Access needs the money, they should get a loan. The OP never agreed to temporarily loan Access Used Lasers $6000. Within 3 days the payment should have been in the OP's account. Anything more is simply wrong.

[Mike Null]

Easy for you to say. You apparently have never had to wait for receivables to pay bills.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Easy for you to say. You apparently have never had to wait for receivables to pay bills.

The customer is not a line of credit. If you want to treat them like that, it better be in the contract.

The reality is, what Access Used Lasers is doing is hurting their company long term. They're screwing over a customer to live to fight another day. The difference is, if anyone google's their name or telephone, this will come up. Now anyone looking at them knows their business is in bad shape and they're going to with hold your funds to benefit themselves.

Maybe the OP needed the $6000 for something so he could stay in business. Maybe he needed for a medical condition that he needed treating. Simply put, Access Used Lasers is 100% wrong in this circumstance. They should pay the customer his money and thank him for the business.

[Kay Bengtson]

Not fulfilling the contract is very serious. I have communicated with Robert in the past and considered his company to be the first stop when my aging ULS 25ER finally stops working and I need a replacement. However, with this new development, I am now very cautious. Perhaps, a new Chinese laser would be a safer bet now. I can't afford to have any problems in staying functional.

Kay

[Chuck Stone]

Easy for you to say. You apparently have never had to wait for receivables to pay bills.


Did Access buy the laser outright? Or did they take the laser on consignment?
Are they consider a consignor or a broker?

If they bought it outright, they may be slow paying.
If they're selling on behalf of the OP, sounds like they
never had title to the equipment, so never had any
claim to the money except for agreed upon expenses
and any commission.

[Mike Null]

I'm not suggesting that Access doesn't owe or shouldn't pay their creditors. And my sympathies are certainly with the injured parties in this case but having once been in a situation where it was necessary to perform a juggling act to keep a business going and put food on the table and where it took me an unusually long time to clear my debt (without declaring bankruptcy) I have some understanding of the thought processes of a small business in trouble.

[Joe Flores]

Joe, I want to send you a personal message but I don't know how to do it! Could you call me? (574) 699-7867 Thanks
Dear Sandy, Was nice talking to you, I did get your PM's. Joe Flores.

[Gary Hair]

As a business owner we have an obligation to pay our creditors before we take a dime for ourselves - unless you have an agreement with them beforehand that gives you more time or different terms. There is nothing I hate more than a customer who is slow in paying and blames it on receivables being slow for them or business being slow. Sorry, but that's not my problem. If you couldn't pay when it was due then you should have let me know beforehand not when I call 14 days late. I have had slow times and cash flow problems but my vendors ALWAYS got paid on time, no exceptions!


I'm not suggesting that Access doesn't owe or shouldn't pay their creditors. And my sympathies are certainly with the injured parties in this case but having once been in a situation where it was necessary to perform a juggling act to keep a business going and put food on the table and where it took me an unusually long time to clear my debt (without declaring bankruptcy) I have some understanding of the thought processes of a small business in trouble.

[Jerome Stanek]

If your in business you should make sure you do what you say. If you are selling an item for someone then it is your responsibility to get the money to that person when the item is sold not when you think you have enough money to pay them.

[Martin Boekers]

This is good to know for those that have considered buying a used laser. The biggest problem, next to not getting paid in a timely manor is the lack of communication.

Just suggesting that Rob could have kept communications open and tried to work it out. When a company doesn't respond it gets frustrating, and if there are issues
about payment ever happening, you may want to be first in line for restitution
Yes, it's difficult in this economy esp. for small businesses, some do live recevables month to month, and just like themselves I am sure there is a "Trickle Down"
that some that owe them money haven't been on time so it magnifies a problem. I maybe wrong but if lines of communication and resolutions were kept open it
can make a difference in resolution and perception.

[Martin Boekers]

I spent over an hour on the phone with Rob several days ago. Rob told me that his company is in fact suffering based on the results of the economic downturn several years ago.

Keith, I didn't see anything here that suggesed that Rob says is working on this and plans to get it resolved?

Believe me I to know as others do here that there are times in business when things are difficult so I don't want
to belittle that. It's not in how you handle success it's more how you handle adversity. We all have or will face it
at sometime.

[Lee DeRaud]

Yes, it's difficult in this economy esp. for small businesses...A short-term emergency cash flow issue is one thing, but "this economy" is five years old at this point. If a business hasn't yet adapted to the 'new normal', maybe they're not going to. And if adapting involves delaying payments to their creditors as a normal business practice, they should man up about it and not try to hide from them.

[Martin Boekers]

A short-term emergency cash flow issue is one thing, but "this economy" is five years old at this point. If a business hasn't yet adapted to the 'new normal', maybe they're not going to. And if adapting involves delaying payments to their creditors as a normal business practice, they should man up about it and not try to hide from them.

I agree, I think if there had been communications from Rob, instead of not answering phone messages it creates a bigger problem.

[Richard Coers]

Why hasn't this post been stopped? The OP made his point, it serves no purpose after that. I am a satisfied customer of Access, and feel the OP will be better served to deal with them directly.

[Chuck Stone]

Why hasn't this post been stopped? The OP made his point, it serves no purpose after that. I am a satisfied customer of Access, and feel the OP will be better served to deal with them directly.

The OP was not being served at all by dealing directly.
That's why the initial post.
I'm glad that your dealings have been satisfactory but
as a small shop who has been looking into used equipment,
I'd very much like to see how this gets worked out.
We communicate here to share information. If there are concerns,
where else should one go to find out but a forum of other users?
And if there are concerns, why would someone want to stifle that?

[Mike Lassiter]

The OP was not being served at all by dealing directly.
That's why the initial post.
I'm glad that your dealings have been satisfactory but
as a small shop who has been looking into used equipment,
I'd very much like to see how this gets worked out.
We communicate here to share information. If there are concerns,
where else should one go to find out but a forum of other users?
And if there are concerns, why would someone want to stifle that?

Interesting that someone thinks this thread should be stopped. The OP made the opening post and only 1 additional post regarding talking to someone that wanted to speak to him. He hasn't defamed or otherwise made derogatory remarks toward the other party. This thread continues because of all the others going back and forth about it.

I would expect everyone here would feel the same way he does if any one else was in his place. That he posted his situation to alert us doesn't make him the bad guy here

[Richard Coers]

Just basing my thoughts on how other business comments get handled on this forum. Certain companies are staunchly cared for by the moderators. The fact that this post has turned into posts about business ethics, how the business should have adapted to the new norm, and how small businesses should be run, etc....We only know one side of the business deal, none of us know any details about the status of Access, and no speculations by others can add any insight or help for the OP. Just don't see how any of the comments really help or can correct the situation for the OP. Now if someone tells him about the legal system, filing claims, deals that have been corrected in the past with Access, deals that have gone badly, etc...., then there is value in the comments.

[Martin Boekers]

business deal, none of us know any details about the status of Access, then there is value in the

With due respect many come to this forum looking to buy a laser, many want a used one. Access has been recommended many times.
Access is aware of that this issue now has seen some light and may moniter this forum, and open lines of communication. Keith (see above)
has had a talk with access, so someone here does know some of the details. We all have dealt with things being "tight" or clients not paying
for services rendered.
So I think we all can relate. I've been on this forum for quite a while and I have seen issues raised about almost every vendor, I haven't
noticed any preference from any of our moderators.

But I too believe this thread has run it's course, until we hear of a resolution......

[Joe Flores]

Hello All,
Call and e-mails to Robert and Diane Bosworth went unanswered last week.
Not sure what to think about this.
Joe Flores ( trying to retire)!

[Keith Outten]

I have reopened this thread for a couple of reasons. There is one other person that I know of that is in an almost identical situation as Joe finds himself so this situation is still pending in two cases that involve SawMill Creek Members.

Secondly there are people who are following this thread with some serious interest.
.

[Chuck Stone]

Ok .. thanks, Keith.

[Jimmy Phillips]

I'm not suggesting that Access doesn't owe or shouldn't pay their creditors. And my sympathies are certainly with the injured parties in this case but having once been in a situation where it was necessary to perform a juggling act to keep a business going and put food on the table and where it took me an unusually long time to clear my debt (without declaring bankruptcy) I have some understanding of the thought processes of a small business in trouble.

I think Bernie Madoff said he was performing a juggling act also........last I heard that didnt turn out to well for him or the people he scammed.....

[Mike Null]

What is it about what I said that you don't understand?

[Jerome Stanek]

When I was in business I had remodeled 5 drug stores and was on a net 30 with them. I had worked for them for 10 years and they filed chapter 11. I had to make sure my help and suppliers were paid. The suppliers didn't care if I had to take a loan to pay they just wanted paid.

[Chuck Stone]

The suppliers didn't care if I had to take a loan to pay they just wanted paid.

This is a little different (morally and legally) where the original poster wasn't a supplier or creditor.
The company was to sell the equipment FOR him and keep a commission.
It isn't a matter of paying slow.. the OP isn't a vendor.
Brokering and consigning are much different than extending credit.

[Gary Hair]

Brokering and consigning are much different than extending credit.

Exactly - I don't know if it's illegal but it surely is unethical to use the revenue from a consignment sale to pay other bills before you pay the consignee. As far as I'm concerned, it's the same thing with your vendors - if you don't have the money to pay them from cash flow then you better take out a loan. I have had three customers give me the excuse that they are waiting on their customer to pay them before they can pay me - needless to say, they are no longer my customers... The worst part is that they didn't disclose this "little detail" until after I called them to find out why they hadn't paid yet - if they had told me up front then I could have made a decision right then as to whether or not I was going to loan them the money, but they didn't give me that option. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I'm not suggesting that Access doesn't owe or shouldn't pay their creditors. And my sympathies are certainly with the injured parties in this case but having once been in a situation where it was necessary to perform a juggling act to keep a business going and put food on the table and where it took me an unusually long time to clear my debt (without declaring bankruptcy) I have some understanding of the thought processes of a small business in trouble.

I see you have a soft spot for access. What would you have done if this happened to you when you were down on your luck. Juggling monies to keep food on the table. We have a corporate policy, 90 days past due and we send it out for collections. There are exceptions like municipal clients. Put a policy in place and follow it to a fault. Comcast, Verizon, utility companies, Macy's, sears and others know how to handle bad debt, they harass the (blank) out of you until you pay.
If you don't pay they send it out to collections and you receive a lawyers letter certified mail. Situations like this eat you up. Get serious and collect the debt or find out what's going on.

[Mike Null]

I do know the people at Access and I do indeed feel for them. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't meet their obligations.

[Dan Hintz]

I have been watching this thread with interest as at one point I was talking with Rob about selling him my machine. I had hoped he'd clean this up quickly, but it has become obvious that he's too far in the hole to climb back out... certainly not far enough out to interest me in sending my machine his way without a full cash payment ahead of time.

[Gary Hair]

I have been watching this thread with interest as at one point I was talking with Rob about selling him my machine. I had hoped he'd clean this up quickly, but it has become obvious that he's too far in the hole to climb back out... certainly not far enough out to interest me in sending my machine his way without a full cash payment ahead of time.

I'm sure it would have been expensive to take out a loan to ensure his consignees got paid, I bet that amount is less than the business he will lose from this thread alone...

[Chuck Stone]

I'm sure it would have been expensive to take out a loan to ensure his consignees got paid,

But that's the tricky part. A consignee (Access) never has an ownership stake in the equipment,
and the money never belongs to them. That is much different than owing a creditor. There, at least
the money you haven't paid yet is yours. As a consignee, the money is never yours. And keeping
it could mean felony charges of larceny by conversion, depending on the state you operate in.

[Mark Smith61]

I'd like to add my two cents speaking in generic terms since I have no idea of the facts of the OP's claim. Before I was a laser engraver, I was in law enforcement. Specifically I spent much of my career investigating white collar crime. Chuck Stone is 100% correct. Failure to pay back a loan or failure to pay for merchandise provided to you on credit, is not a crime unless fraud was involved. We no longer had debtors prison and bad debts are civil torts and not crimes. However, also as Chuck pointed out, selling something for somebody else on a consignment basis and then failing to simply pass that money along, is a crime. The consignee has no right to that money and no right to use it for anything. That means using it for other purposes is theft. I have worked many similar cases and mostly involving real estate transactions, but the theory is similar. Now whether or not the OP could actually find a law enforcement agency willing to take this case is another story, but that doesn't make it any less a crime.

[Rodne Gold]

Such a pity things had to come to this impasse...before I bought my first laser , I rang up Rob and he sat with me for hours on the phone answering all my inane questions..knowing he would not be selling me a machine....

[David Arana]

It would appear I found this too late.
I havent been on this forum in a couple years.
My original experience with Rob and Diane was very good.
I purchased an epilog from them and everything went smooth.
But now Im worried.
I recently purchased a laser from another company that went out of business.
And Rob told me he would give me $1000.00 for it.
So I sent it to Rob. (He paid the shipping)
Problem is.....
They received the machine May 22nd,
Diane told me she would have a check sent out to me as soon as she had everything punched into her system. (that was the 23rd)
Then on June 3rd I sent her an email to get status on the check.
She told me the check was in the system (Not sure what that means) and she would let me know as soon as it leaves.
Today I called to get status. No answer....
And thats when I decided to do a google on Access Business Solutions (To see if anything pops up)
Sure enough. Sawmill Creek has this thread about them having troubles.
Now im worried I wont get paid.
I would have never expected this from Rob and Diane,
They were so good to me when I bought my laser through them.
I've recommended so many people to them too.

[Keith Outten]

David,

I heard the Rob had started another business and a little searching brought up this information:

Rob Bosworth
Engravers Connection
(715) 808-8061
engraversconnection.com

Hope this helps!
.

[Scott Shepherd]

They have a Facebook page for their new business as well, if that's your thing. Might be able to post on there or get comments posted.

[Dan Hintz]

That's the great thing about America. Business failed? No problem! Just use the ill-gotten gains from your first business to fund another! :)

Until you can pay off all of your debtors, you should not be allowed to start a new business.

[Dennis Watson]

They have a Facebook page for their new business as well, if that's your thing. Might be able to post on there or get comments posted.

Yea, and notice the facebook was created back in November 28, 2012

[Martin Boekers]

Hmmmmm...... so did they give themselves thier own award?????


http://www.engraversconnection.com/blog/?m=201304

[Gary Hair]

David,

I heard the Rob had started another business and a little searching brought up this information:

Rob Bosworth
Engravers Connection
(715) 808-8061
engraversconnection.com

Hope this helps!
.


A quick search on Engraving Etc. and I see that his signature changed from Access to Engravers Connection around April/May of last year - a post on April 22, 2012 was Access and the next post on May 14, 2012 was Engravers Connection. His most recent post was May 31, 2013. Just FYI.

[matthew knott]

With Dan on this one, its virtual legalised theft in my opinion when a company goes down the pan , then starts up again the next day with a new name, Cant see how you would ever stop it though, as you would just get people opening the new company in their wives/family members name. Its a can of worms, and I really feel for people that get mixed up with failing companys, the collateral damage can often take out whole chains of company's, and the guys lower down don't see it coming. Hopefully this is just a blip for Rob and he will pay his bills and carry on, he was (is) a good bloke.

[Chuck Stone]

Hopefully this is just a blip for Rob and he will pay his bills and carry on, he was (is) a good bloke.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this isn't a matter of not paying a bill or paying it late.
This is a matter of taking money that never belonged to him. (except the commission)
Two VERY different things.. one is unfortunate (but understandable when things go bad.)
The other is a felony.

[Basma El Banna]

Hitec solutions
Our company is representing ULS in Middle East , 2 years and half ago we ordered one machine from Diane C. Bosworth , Access Business Solutions, Inc. and she never send the machine nor refund our money ( 20000 USD) . If anyone is interested to know more about this case , plz contact me . I have all documents to prove my claim.

[Sandy Henry]

Access Business Solutions - Rob Bosworth purchased my laser in Sept. 2012. His wife, Diane, has been stringing me along for 9 months, making excuses for not paying me the remaining $14,000 on our original $19,000 agreement. Rob discontinued all communication with me after he took posession of my laser. After 6 months, Diane drew up a new agreement to start making monthly payments but just like our original agreement, they have not honored it. I hired a lawyer today & will be filing in civil court. Sandy Henry

[Dan Hintz]

Wow, at first I thought it was as simple as one (maybe two) failures at the end of the business. Now it's starting to look like a serious amount of money has been lost to Rob and Diane... and these are only the stories we know about.

[Joe Flores]

Access Business Solutions - Rob Bosworth purchased my laser in Sept. 2012. His wife, Diane, has been stringing me along for 9 months, making excuses for not paying me the remaining $14,000 on our original $19,000 agreement. Rob discontinued all communication with me after he took posession of my laser. After 6 months, Diane drew up a new agreement to start making monthly payments but just like our original agreement, they have not honored it. I hired a lawyer today & will be filing in civil court. Sandy Henry

Sandy I also have turned this over to my attorney. I think the criminal intent has been shown here. Joe Flores

[Mike Lysov]

If you google for "Access Business Solutions" you will get more of their clients who are complaining about them.

http://www.yelp.com.au/biz/access-business-solutions-hudson
http://hudson-wi.patch.com/listings/access-business-solutions-3

[Phil Thien]

This is beginning to look like quite a bit of money. Seeing as they're brokering lasers, it seems like their business costs should be quite modest. So I wonder where all the do-re-mi is going.

[Josh Phelan]

Hello all just want to tell you about a problem I am having with Access Used Lasers. They sold my laser per an agreement we had. Received $6000.00 deposit. After they sold the laser they did not pay me the last $6000.00. Now they are not answering my phone calls. I trusted Robert now it looks like I will have to sue them,access@usedlasers.com or via phone at 715-386-8021. Be careful out there folks, I will keep you posted. Joe Flores


Add yet another person still waiting for the remainder of my payment from access used lasers but unfortunately my adventure goes all the way back to 2007. I worked with them every time Diane said they needed more time. The last payment arrangement agreed on came out as low as $25 a week and even that they can't hold up on their end. The only time I even get them going again is if I threaten law suit or contact the BBB. Joe did you ever get your situation finally worked out? I just wish I found this thread sooner. It's sad to say but Im more bitter now knowing how many others they screwed over. I do not recommend them for anything.

[Jacques Babilon]

Our company works in Rwanda In sept 2009 we ordered one machine from Diane C. Bosworth , Access Business Solutions, Inc. and she never send the machine. (19000 USD)
After months & months of promisses from Diane to refund ... nothing came back. She complained about the economic crisis in the USA etc ...
We threatened Diane with complaint in the court and then received in june 2010 and feb 2011 a beginning of refund (2500 USD) and promisses of integral refund every month ... and till 2 nothing more.
Today we are in a procedure with a lawyer and judgement will be taken in the court within a few days.
It's incredible that a company likes Access Business Solutions is still in business today and they never been in judgement ?
If anyone is interested to know more about this case, . I have all documents to prove my claim.

[Paul Phillips]

This whole story is really sad with all the people that they have (allegedly) screwed over, and that they continue to do business, I just got a sales flyer in my email from usedlasers.com so they are definitely still buying and selling.

[Dan Hintz]

The best we can do is keep this thread active, so Google searches on the company (and owners) will pop up the real info on their behavior...

[Gary Hair]

The best we can do is keep this thread active, so Google searches on the company (and owners) will pop up the real info on their behavior...

It's not working Dan. I searched on Bing, yahoo, google and ask and there is nothing negative that comes up besides a "B" rating on the BBB website. This thread doesn't come up in the 3 pages of results I looked through. I'm not a big believer in BBB but maybe the people who have had bad dealings should file a complaint there - maybe it would change their rating.

[Dave Sheldrake]

My very limited understanding of US law is just that ..limited....but here....that's without a doubt jail time.... "Fraud by false representation" carries anything up to 10 years here with category 2 offences (anything over £100,000 total) having a starting point of 5 years jail plus unlimited fines.

cheers

Dave

[Josh Phelan]

It's not working Dan. I searched on Bing, yahoo, google and ask and there is nothing negative that comes up besides a "B" rating on the BBB website. This thread doesn't come up in the 3 pages of results I looked through. I'm not a big believer in BBB but maybe the people who have had bad dealings should file a complaint there - maybe it would change their rating.


I filed a BBB complaint against them and usedlasers responded as soon as they got it. I gave them yet another shot and was promised a check for $25 a week til paid off. Not only is that just a sad amount on their part but the payments are irregular at best. They have no problem posting their tropical vacation photos on facebook but paying off their costumers is not on their priority list.

[John Frazee]

I c/p this thread link to their facebook page timeline. It only shows up on the sidebar so I commented on an article with it as well. People shouldn't give them one dime until they quit ripping people off!

[Norman Roberts]

Thanks very much for this thread. I have been in contact with access used lasers about a UVL 120 watt. They do not even have the machine, they advertise that it has been fully refurbished. When I asked for specific work that was done and if the laser tubes were refilled, she told me that they do not have it in stock.
They are selling on consignment and will get the machine and do the refurb when they get payment.

Thanks for helping me dodge the bullet on this. Anyone know of a good place to find used lasers ??

[Keith Outten]

Anyone know of a good place to find used lasers ??

The safest place I know of these days is the Classifieds Forum here at The Creek.

[Nicolas Silva]

this is America - where you can sue anyone for anything. Why hasn't anyone taken these (removed inappropriate language) to the cleaners thru the court system yet?

[Dan Hintz]

this is America - where you can sue anyone for anything. Why hasn't anyone taken these (removed inappropriate language) to the cleaners thru the court system yet?

It's not easy, particularly when you're across state lines. Not to mention, even if you win, getting the actual money back is complicated and often impossible.

[Jeanette Brewer]

Thanks for helping me dodge the bullet on this. Anyone know of a good place to find used lasers ??

Most authorized laser distributors have used lasers available or know of FSBO lasers. I don't know if all manufacturers post used lasers on their websites but I know Epilog does. I'd highly recommend checking with your local distributors in Arizona.

[Greg Facer]

I'm guessing, by way of nothing new posted to this thread, that these issues are still outstanding? I am getting a lot of emails (relatively) from Diane in the last month after nothing for maybe 6 months. Unsubscribed!

Crazy.

[Mike Null]

Caveat Emptor!!!

[Bill George]

So I find this on eBay, just needs a tube and it looks like the same machine these people are selling? Are they one in the same? eBay listing Item # 281610999393

ACCESS Business Solutions
523 Knollwood Dr.
Hudson, WI 54016

So an email from them or Diane at Diane C. Bosworth @
Access Business Solutions, Inc and it contains pictures exactly matching the ones posted on the eBay listing above only Access price is $12k and eBay seller is doing a BIN for $6K as a not working machine, just needs a tube and must be moved out of his basement. Cash before moving and I assume inspection.

[Joe Flores]

Hello all just want to tell you about a problem I am having with Access Used Lasers. They sold my laser per an agreement we had. Received $6000.00 deposit. After they sold the laser they did not pay me the last $6000.00. Now they are not answering my phone calls. I trusted Robert now it looks like I will have to sue them,access@usedlasers.com or via phone at 715-386-8021. Be careful out there folks, I will keep you posted. Joe Flores

Well this nightmare has finally ended. My attorney was able to collect the money. It took almost two years for an attorney. I know other people have send me private messages. To them I will say
it is hard to collect from someone out of state. I am in Texas they are in Wisconsin. This is the only piece of equipment I sold this way. I would not recommend this method to anyone. They lasers they list
are often owned by someone else. In the end find an attorney to collect your money.
Joe Flores.

PS: too all of you who defended Rob & Diane Bosworth shame on you.

[Dan Hintz]

Good for you, Joe... I'm assuming you actually got money, not just a judgement in your favor, correct? If so, how much did the lawyer get (or were you awarded costs, as well)?

[Dan Hintz]

As a further update to this thread...

Recently I was going through my stack of unread magazines (my backlog is often a few months) and found an article on used laser purchases in A&E (December 2014). Access Business Solutions (and Rob and Diane Bosworth, specifially) was mentioned multiple times, including the website, with quotes from Rob. Needless to say, I had to write the author (CC'd the editor of A&E) and let him know of the manner in which ABS has been fleecing their customers. The author has promised to investigate from his end, but I can not say what, if anything, will come of it. As I've said before, the best we can do is warn as many folk as possible so they are not scammed in the same manner. And yes, since this pattern of behavior has been repeated time and again over 8+ years, this is definitely a scam.

[Jeanette Brewer]

Out of curiosity, who was the author?

[Scott Shepherd]

Richard Korbyl

http://a-e-mag.com/features/used-lasers-great-deal-or-great-pain

[Sandy Henry]

Update on S. Henry vs. R. Bosworth. Trying since 2012 to get payment for sale of laser. I am currently working with a Wisconsin lawyer (following lead from T. Flores) & my hope is that Bosworth will comply with a payment plan - If any payment is 5 days past due, we will immediately set a court date. I'll post again if issue is resolved. Sandy Henry

[Dan Hintz]

Thanks for keeping us updated, Sandy...

[Ed Coleman]

Interesting that this post should come up at this time. I have been struggling in trying to resolve a payment dispute with Diane Bosworth as well. My story only reaches back to this past January (2015) so it is not as long standing a problem as some have endured. Diane agreed to a payment schedule and then missed the deadline for the first payment. I am looking into legal options at this point. I'm curious to know what other avenues might be available to "get the word out" about what surely looks to be a scam. This forum is great, I only wish I had found this thread prior to involving myself with this business.

-Ed

[Dan Hintz]

Ed,

See my comments earlier about the article written with the Bosworth's as a quotable business... contact the author (CC the editor of A&E) and let him know this is not just something from the past but an ongoing issue with them. They make excuses of how things were bad "in the past", but they're trying to make things better... right up until the next poor schmoe walks into their business.

[Ed Coleman]

Thanks Dan. I will contact them today.

[Scott Shepherd]

I posted a topic in the general section a while back and just updated it recently about placing a judgement against someone. I wouldn't hesitate to file a warrant in debt against them. They have 30-45 days before the court date to setting it, if not, it goes to court and they'll have a judgement placed against them. They are obligated to pay your legal fees as well, I believe. If you have to hire a lawyer in their city to show up, then it might be worth it, as you should get the money back.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?225781-Anyone-placed-a-judgement-against-a-business

[Mike DeRegnaucourt]

Would it be possible for those folks seeking to collect money owed them, based on a court judgement in their favor; to file a lien against Diane & Rob's house? If you do a Google Map search of their address ( 523 Knollwood Dr Hudson, WI 54016 ) apparently they're running their "businesses" out of their house. I put "businesses" in quotes since it looks more like running scams out of their house based on the posts in this thread. With a lien against their property that lien will most likely be required to be settled out of escrow if they sell their home. Just a thought that might help those folks collect what is owed them. I hate to hear about small business owners getting screwed.

[Kev Williams]

Would it be possible for those folks seeking to collect money owed them, based on a court judgement in their favor; to file a lien against Diane & Rob's house? .

If their biz is anything but a sole proprietorship or partnership, then NO. SP's and P-ships's owners are completely at risk in business lawsuits, including any and all personal or real property.

LLC's, S-corps and all else's owner's personal property are immune from business lawsuits. The only thing at risk are business assets.

It's a good bet their home isn't listed as a business asset. IF however it IS, then it's fair game...

[Dan Hintz]

If their biz is anything but a sole proprietorship or partnership, then NO. SP's and P-ships's owners are completely at risk in business lawsuits, including any and all personal or real property.

LLC's, S-corps and all else's owner's personal property are immune from business lawsuits. The only thing at risk are business assets.

It's a good bet their home isn't listed as a business asset. IF however it IS, then it's fair game...

An LLC et. al., however, can not protect your personal property in cases of gross misconduct. For example, if someone uses your product and dies as a result of misuse, your personal property is shielded in any lawsuits... if your product is marketed towards 4-year olds and includes an explosive device, the LLC cannot shield you and you can become personally responsible in many, many ways. Otherwise, EVERYONE would go for a corporation of one form or another and do whatever they wished. Continuing to steal money from clients would be considered gross misconduct, so a lien on the house would be a useful step, if the judge allows it.

[Ed Coleman]

It would seem likely to me, based on the amount of complaints against this company, that there are local (Wisconsin) lawyers that have experience in dealing with collections from them. Does anyone have any experience or recommendations. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Josh Phelan]

I lost track of this thread and forum but Im still playing the game with them. I get a check here and there and then nothing from them. Im thinking of heading up there in a couple of weeks if I can make the time. These people are the worst.

[Ed Coleman]

Today I submitted a complaint against Access Used Lasers at the BBB website. I'm still looking into legal options, but hopefully the situation can be resolved without having to go that route. If anyone is interested, the BBB web site regarding Access is located here:

http://www.bbb.org/wisconsin/business-reviews/machinery-new/access-business-solutions-in-hudson-wi-1000005296


My complaint, having just been submitted today (6/5/15) does not yet appear on the site.

[Jerome Stanek]

Today I submitted a complaint against Access Used Lasers at the BBB website. I'm still looking into legal options, but hopefully the situation can be resolved without having to go that route. If anyone is interested, the BBB web site regarding Access is located here:

http://www.bbb.org/wisconsin/business-reviews/machinery-new/access-business-solutions-in-hudson-wi-1000005296


My complaint, having just been submitted today (6/5/15) does not yet appear on the site.

The BBB is about as useful as a boat anchor in the desert. I had a couple of claims and they tell you try and work it out. Then they don't want any information and tell you to work it out yourself. they then post that it has been solved.

[Ed Coleman]

Jerome:

I didn't even make it that far into the process. Shortly after I submitted my complaint I received an email indicating

In reviewing the issue you brought to us, it appears that the BBB cannot directly help you with this issue. The BBB does not handle complaints about the following:

Complaints that solely involve the collection of a debt from one business to another, without any underlying product or service issue.

If you wish to further pursue this issue, you may want to contact a bill collection agency or a legal adviser.

I followed up asking if there was any way the BBB would reconsider, since there was a nearly identical complaint from 2010 listed on their website. BTW, this company currently holds an "A" rating on the BBB site.

[Mike Null]

The BBB is about as useful as the man in the moon. Don't waste your time.

[Ed Coleman]

The BBB is about as useful as the man in the moon. Don't waste your time.

Agreed. I tried to work with the BBB but they were no help.

I was able to submit a review on the "Angle's List" service. If there are any members of Angie's List that have had experience with Access Business Solutions I encourage you to submit your own review. I'm looking for other avenues to get the word out about this company, also working on some legal avenues.

[Chuck Stone]

I was able to submit a review on the "Angle's List" service. If there are any members of Angie's List that have had experience with Access Business Solutions I encourage you to submit your own review. I'm looking for other avenues to get the word out about this company, also working on some legal avenues.

I had a non payment issue with someone and was getting nowhere with them, and BBB was useless.
I finally posted something on Facebook, making sure they got tagged. Lots of friends piled on (they
knew the situation) and started really doing it up. Very shortly, the owner made an appearance in the
thread asking me to email him. (He still didn't do anything, but it got his attention) So after another
week of non-response and no payment, I filed a complaint with the Arkansas Attorney General's office.
That got someone's attention. Within an hour the old Paypal invoices started getting paid.

The AG's office wasn't going to take any legal action on my behalf, I'm not even sure if they could. But
if they call you, it must be like looking down the barrel of a pretty large gun. Especially if you're doing this
to many of your other vendors. In this case, they had stopped paying everyone, holding out for a sale of
the business. Not sure if it had anything to do with complaints, but that sale fell through.

I wonder if a rapid string of complaints filed against the same company in a short time would get
someone's attention at the AG's office..

[Josh Phelan]

I had a non payment issue with someone and was getting nowhere with them, and BBB was useless.
I finally posted something on Facebook, making sure they got tagged. Lots of friends piled on (they
knew the situation) and started really doing it up. Very shortly, the owner made an appearance in the
thread asking me to email him. (He still didn't do anything, but it got his attention) So after another
week of non-response and no payment, I filed a complaint with the Arkansas Attorney General's office.
That got someone's attention. Within an hour the old Paypal invoices started getting paid.

The AG's office wasn't going to take any legal action on my behalf, I'm not even sure if they could. But
if they call you, it must be like looking down the barrel of a pretty large gun. Especially if you're doing this
to many of your other vendors. In this case, they had stopped paying everyone, holding out for a sale of
the business. Not sure if it had anything to do with complaints, but that sale fell through.

I wonder if a rapid string of complaints filed against the same company in a short time would get
someone's attention at the AG's office..


I took your advice and filed a complaint with the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection

http://datcp.wi.gov/File_Complaint/index.aspx

[Ed Coleman]

In addition to the Dept of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection, anyone with a grievance against this company may also want to consider contacting the office of the Wisconsin Attorney General:

http://www.doj.state.wi.us

I sent them a letter outlining my particular situation, I called their office today and they confirmed receipt of the letter and indicated they were "looking into" the matter.

[Chuck Stone]

I can see why Josh elected to go with Consumer Protection, as the
AG doesn't normally get involved directly in disputes over debt. But
this isn't about debt, this is fraud and grand theft.

And once a pattern emerges, that's different.
They need to hear from everyone who has had this problem.

[Ed Coleman]

Chuck:

I agree with your assessment, it seems to me that there is a definite pattern here. I'm encouraged by the fact that the AG did not dismiss my report and they consider this an "open" matter which they are investigating.

I would hope that anyone with a similar complaint would contact the AG. Of course I want the money due to me, but I think it is equally important that this "pattern" is brought to an end.

[Chuck Stone]

Although it varies by state, you might do a search for things like 'theft by conversion' or
'embezzlement by bailee' to give you a little more info. These aren't civil matters, they're
criminal. I'm surprised there hasn't been an arrest made, but perhaps people aren't aware
of the laws and are thinking about lawsuits. I think having to call a bail bondsman might
wake up anyone..

[Rob Riley]

Looks like I am the latest victim of this scam. I am however based in WI and I am proceeding with legal action. I didn't trust my gut on this one. If anyone can be of any assistance with what worked or didn't work for them in the past I would greatly appreciate it.

[Mike Null]

Nobody has gotten their money quickly and many have received only partial or no payments.

You'd better play hardball.

[Ed Coleman]

Rob:

I would suggest contacting the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection (DATCP) 1-608-224-4953, http://datcp.wi.gov. I was forwarded to that department after contacting the Wisconsin State Attorney General office. My situation has currently been "assigned to an investigator" and I am awaiting any further info. I would imagine, if enough people make similar complaints, there will be a better chance of a positive resolution.

-Ed

[Dan Hintz]

I'll also add... don't forget to let your AG (or whomever is investigating for you) know who else is working on it. An AG would be happy to know (and share information with) other AsG* who are working it.




* That's the first time I've ever tried to shorten the plural of AG, Attorneys General... I'm not sure if that qualifies as valid ;)

[David Somers]

Just a thought regarding the BBB. While I agree they are pretty worthless when it comes to resolving complaints, I think I would still post complaints with them simply because many people look to them for the track record of a company. If you post your complaint with them at least it now appears to those folks and can serve as a warning flag that more diligence may be needed on the buyers part.

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Just a thought regarding the BBB. While I agree they are pretty worthless when it comes to resolving complaints, I think I would still post complaints with them simply because many people look to them for the track record of a company. If you post your complaint with them at least it now appears to those folks and can serve as a warning flag that more diligence may be needed on the buyers part.

Dave

Unless you go through their formal process (if you can call it that), they will not post anything. Trying to just post a complaint will not work... the BBB expects it to be a process where the business gets a chance to reply, etc. This is the BBB's way of preventing their site from becoming nothing but a collection of angry mob letters (and a good way to keep the paying companies happy...companies who claim to have tried to work with the customer get to keep their A+ rating, even if it's complete crap).

[Scott Shepherd]

Looks like something might have happened to them. Their website is no longer active.

[Ed Coleman]

I just got off the phone with the Wisconsin bureau of consumer protection and was told that Access Business Solutions has declared themselves insolvent and has gone out of business. Their website is down and their phone is disconnected. The rep I spoke with indicated that the only recourse I would have at this point would be to hire a lawyer and sue. I asked if he could send the case back to the Wisconsin Attorney General office (where I originally filed complaint). He said there was not enough complaints against the company to warrant that action; noting that he was only able to fine one complaint other than mine on file with their office.

I don't know what their situation is, if they are truly "insolvent" or if this is simply a tactic to avoid responsibility. When I was last able to log onto their website, they still had my equipment listed for sale, it would be nice to at least get my engraver back - seems like that will require a lawyer and an interstate lawsuit!

-Ed

[Ed Coleman]

Information from the Better Business Bureau's web site regarding Access Business Solutions:
322026

[Dan Hintz]

Ed,

See some of the earlier posts. They've started business under a new name, but my understanding is they are still selling used lasers on consignment. Them changing business names makes things more difficult for you, but the law also takes a dim view of people who close a business and start a new one over and over to avoid debt.

I'd look for someone else to talk to...

[Keith Outten]

It appears that this company is still in business.


Rob Bosworth
Engravers Connection
(715) 808-8061
engraversconnection.com

If both companies are not incorporated then Rob and Diane's personal assets may be at risk. Opening one company while closing another may not protect them depending on how their business is registered.
.

[Kim Vellore]

Just FYI on BBB I thought was very interesting

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news/better-business-bureau/index.html

I wonder who rates BBB

[Dan Hintz]

Just FYI on BBB I thought was very interesting

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news/better-business-bureau/index.html

I wonder who rates BBB

Here's a fun quote from that article...

Meanwhile, consumer lawsuits aren't factored into grades at all, no matter how many there are against a single company.
Explains a lot, don't you think?

[Josh Phelan]

It appears that this company is still in business.


Rob Bosworth
Engravers Connection
(715) 808-8061
engraversconnection.com

If both companies are not incorporated then Rob and Diane's personal assets may be at risk. Opening one company while closing another may not protect them depending on how their business is registered.
.


Im wondering if we can get a show of hands of who's still looking to collect money from these people. I know I am.

[Ed Coleman]

Josh:

I am still looking into ways to collect...I'm hoping with more "complaints" we can actually get law enforcement interested.

-Ed

[Scott Shepherd]

For what it's worth, I had a customer not pay us and have taken the legal actions to deal with it. The first thing I did was file a Warrant in Debt. That set a court date (which I assume a lawyer could show up and do for you). If they didn't show up to the court date, then you automatically get the judgement in your favor. If they show up, they have to prove that they don't owe you the money. Once you get the judgement, it dings their credit record pretty badly. It's up to the two parties after that to work out a payment plan. If one can't be reached, you can garnish their bank account, have their assets seized and sold at auction to cover what's owed to you.

We did that, got the judgement and after 6 months of paying us, they stopped. We went back to the court a couple weeks ago and filed the paperwork to garnish their bank account. When that happens, it's going to lock out their bank account, the court actually seizes the money in the account and 45 days from filing, the court will give us the money if they were able to recover it.

Might be worth doing. You might just have to contact a lawyer in that area and have them file it all. I believe you can put all attorney costs into the amount due as well.

Something worth looking into.

[Bill Hoss]

So, can anyone recommend a layer in Hudson, WI? They also owe me money and I've had nothing but promises for the past year.

Bill Hoss
Lake Junction Models, LLC

[Jacques Babilon]

Some more infos after our judgement:

My name is Jacky Babilon , Manager/part owner OF KCrea Ltd company, which is established in Rwanda.
In sept 2009 we ordered one laser machine from Diane C. Bosworth , Access Business Solutions, Inc. and she never send the machine. (19000 USD)
After months & months of promisses from Diane to refund ... nothing came back. She complained about the economic crisis in the USA etc …
We have been in contact with the USA Embassy of Kigali who told us that they can’t help us as it was a business problem…?
After seen this website :
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?202467-WARNING-concerning-Access-Used-Lasers/page8
We threatened Diane with complaint in the court and then received in june 2010 and feb 2011 a beginning of refund (2500 USD) and promisses of integral refund every month ... and nothing since then.
Today we are in a procedure with a lawyer and judgement has been taken by the court. We win but … no payment cames back ?
It's incredible that a company likes Access Business Solutions is still in business today and they never been in judgement ?
They are still working today under the name of
Rob Bosworth
Engravers Connection
(715) 808-8061
engraversconnection.com (http://engraversconnection.com/)
If anyone is interested to know more about this case, I have all documents to prove my claim, and our lawyer too.
Enright Law Office
2215 E Clairemont Ave, Ste 5
Eau Claire WI 54701
Office Phone: 715-832-6645
Fax: 715-832-8438
If someone can help us, on how we can be paid back after judgement ? What’s the procedure in the USA ?
Many thanks
Jacky Babilon

[Scott Shepherd]

If someone can help us, on how we can be paid back after judgement ? What’s the procedure in the USA ?
Many thanks
Jacky Babilon




Hi Jacky, very sorry for you going through that. Talk to your lawyer. A Judgement is not a promise to pay, it's just the first legal step of trying to get your money back. It's the legal ruling that they owe you the money. Sounds like you got that. Now the court says they owe you the money, you have to follow other steps to get your money.

It's my understanding that the following methods are methods of getting payment. You should talk to your lawyer about which one makes the most sense for your situation :

-Garnishment

-Writ of Fieri Facias

-Docketing of Judgement

-Interrogatories

[Tony Zona]

Can anyone tell if their current business address is the same as their home address.

I wonder if that meets their local zoning requirements.

[Josh Phelan]

Can anyone tell if their current business address is the same as their home address.

I wonder if that meets their local zoning requirements.

It would seem like it is their business address according to google maps.

[Jacques Babilon]

Hi Jacky, very sorry for you going through that. Talk to your lawyer. A Judgement is not a promise to pay, it's just the first legal step of trying to get your money back. It's the legal ruling that they owe you the money. Sounds like you got that. Now the court says they owe you the money, you have to follow other steps to get your money.

It's my understanding that the following methods are methods of getting payment. You should talk to your lawyer about which one makes the most sense for your situation :

-Garnishment

-Writ of Fieri Facias

-Docketing of Judgement

-Interrogatories

Hi Scott
Thanks for tour reply
My message was also to give everybody my lawyer ad.
So if people & people ask for judgment, things will move ?
I'm well trying to have my money back but the first thing I want is to stop the Bosworth family swindles people with complete impunity.
As they are really thief's and founded a good "business" since years & years all over the states and outside your country.
I' ve seen there is a Facebook page called Access Business Solutions for complying(?)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Access-Business-Solutions/126796734042729
Should it be an idea that everyone who has been scammed
by these people, post his/her misadventure with this swindler's family ?
I thing my lawyer is not very accurate as the judgment has been done nearly one year ago ?
I've contacted some companies in Hudson for debt collection ? will keep you informed .

Best regards

Jacky

[Sandy Henry]

Since 2012 I have tried to get Bosworths to pay me for my laser. I hired a law firm in Hudson WI & filed suit. Bosworth filed a financial disclosure & their only assets are $250 in office furniture - $250 in office equipment - $250 in stripped out machines! They have finally worn me down & I will not spend any more money on lawyers for this matter. Rob & Diane talk a pretty picture but they are LIARS & con artists. Its difficult to post this message & not use mostly swear words when referring Rob & Diane Bosworth. Thats all...thanks to all who have posted their experiences with these people & thanks to this forum for keeping this running at the top of the list. Hopefully it has saved other poor, unsuspecting souls from this trap.

[John Barton]

I have sold pool cues on consignment worth up to $8000 when I had less than $100 in the bank. While it was nice to have 8k in my hands I immediately sent the money less commission to the person who trusted me with his cue. To me consignment funds are not revenue to be used for overhead. The ONLY revenue is the commission for handling the transaction. There is no moral, ethical and possibly no legal excuse for withholding that money.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Astounding......

Sooner or later they will take money from the wrong people and it won't end well. I've added up the numbers just from this thread....we aren't talking chump change, this is some serious weight of dollar.

[Jacques Babilon]

Hello everybody
First of all, happy new year for 2017 from Rwanda.
i'm passing from time to time on this forum about Bosworth and co ...
Please check this link for info and the new job of these thiefs

Good job
Bye and hope that someone will resolve his problem with them

[Amanda Shughart]

After a year later, I'm curious to know the status of everyone's cases. This is a terrible injustice for everyone who's been involved with Access.

[John Stevenson]

Hello everybody
First of all, happy new year for 2017 from Rwanda.
i'm passing from time to time on this forum about Bosworth and co ...
Please check this link for info and the new job of these thiefs

Good job
Bye and hope that someone will resolve his problem with them

Apparently you can report the campaign but with me not having a gofund me account or facebook account I can't post a link to this thread.

Would be nice if they pulled the campaign.

[Gary Hair]

Apparently you can report the campaign but with me not having a gofund me account or facebook account I can't post a link to this thread.

Would be nice if they pulled the campaign.

I posted a comment on their campaign directing people to look here, no links allowed but I gave them enough info to find it. I also reported it to gofundme. Who knows what they will do.

Edit:
Here is the auto-reply from Gofundme.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Our Trust &Safety team will be investigating the page and taking appropriate action.Please note that:
1. We will not be able to disclose any details about an ongoinginvestigation.
2. Personal disputes between two parties will be ignored and should be settledwith law enforcement.
3. Your personal information will be kept confidential from the CampaignOrganizer.
In addition to the report you have submitted to us, we encourageyou to contact law enforcement officials in your area if you believe this useris committing fraud or breaking the law in any way.
Our team will respond if we have any further questions. Whileevery report will be reviewed, we cannot respond to every complaint.
Regards,
GoFundMe Trust and Safety Team

[Gary Hair]

Surprise, surprise, gofundme removed my comment.

[Josh Phelan]

Surprise, surprise, gofundme removed my comment.


i found the page and posted a comment calling them out for their scamming, the page was closed an hour later.

[Gary Lyben]

Same happened to me. I had a uls laser I sent to them, the kept saying it's slow now, nobody's buying ..., finally said send it back, then it magically sold. they still owe me close to 5000. This was 2006 - 2009.



Since 2012 I have tried to get Bosworths to pay me for my laser. I hired a law firm in Hudson WI & filed suit. Bosworth filed a financial disclosure & their only assets are $250 in office furniture - $250 in office equipment - $250 in stripped out machines! They have finally worn me down & I will not spend any more money on lawyers for this matter. Rob & Diane talk a pretty picture but they are LIARS & con artists. Its difficult to post this message & not use mostly swear words when referring Rob & Diane Bosworth. Thats all...thanks to all who have posted their experiences with these people & thanks to this forum for keeping this running at the top of the list. Hopefully it has saved other poor, unsuspecting souls from this trap.

Gary Lyben