220 wiring question

[Greg Wittler]

I had been amassing a large collection of woodworking tools, but didn't have 220 in my garage. Then a garage fire wiped out everything, and I have had to start over. Lucky for me, when they rebuilt the gargage, they put in a 220 line for me. I am completely electricity ignotant, so I am not sure how to proceed. I have 3 tools I would like to use off of the same 220 outlet in my garage. One tool a Nova DVR XP has a plug that doesn't match my outlet, and the other two tools don't have plugs yet. The other two unterminated tools are a Rikon 14" Bandsaw with a 3hp Baldor Motor, and a General 350 Cabinet saw with a 3hp Marathon Motor. My question is should I make all plugs like the 220 outlet or change out the outlet for one like on the Nova (2nd picture). My other thought was to make an extension cord with a dryer 220 line and terminate the one end with a female plug that would accept the style of plug on the Nova, and put the same plug on the other two tools. Any assistance from any of you electrical gurus would be greatly appreciated.

Greg



260769260770260772260773

[Dan Mullen]

The plug configuration is set up for the amp draw the tool will use. Your outlet in the shop looks like it's a 220v, 50 amp, 4 wire (includes a neutral). The tool that has the plug on the cord is a 220v, 20amp, 3 wire (no neutral used). You need to look at the tool data plates to determine the proper amp draw for the other to machines without a plug. The wire, cord connector and plug should all be sized to accomadate the amp draw from the machines to avoid another nasty garage fire!

You may have to add a couple of additonal outlets in the garage if you want to plug in all the tools. The breaker that protects that outlet should be sized for the wire and outlet as well. That means it may be too big to protect the wiring in the equipment if they short out. A 20 amp cord and plug should have a 20 amp breaker in the panel to protect it.

Dan

[Joseph Tarantino]

I had been amassing a large collection of woodworking tools, but didn't have 220 in my garage. Then a garage fire wiped out everything, and I have had to start over. Lucky for me, when they rebuilt the gargage, they put in a 220 line for me. I am completely electricity ignotant, so I am not sure how to proceed. I have 3 tools I would like to use off of the same 220 outlet in my garage. One tool a Nova DVR XP has a plug that doesn't match my outlet, and the other two tools don't have plugs yet. The other two unterminated tools are a Rikon 14" Bandsaw with a 3hp Baldor Motor, and a General 350 Cabinet saw with a 3hp Marathon Motor. My question is should I make all plugs like the 220 outlet

no. i wouldn't change plugs to that outlet.

or change out the outlet for one like on the Nova (2nd picture).

there are several ways to proceed. the existing outlet is a 14-30R, so that's probably a 30A circuit. check the two pole breaker in the panel and it should have "30" written on it. were it my shop, i'd change that outlet to a 6-20R receptacle. then put 6-20P plugs on the tails of the BS and the TS. both the 6-20P and the 6-15P (on your lathe) will work with the 6-20R receptacle. all you'd have, in that case, is an over rated wire and breaker to the outlet. the tools will never need that much power, so, no harm. but here's the part you might not like. i'm not in favor of leaving wires capped at an appliance that are connected to any part of the panel. so i'd disconnect that neutral from the neutral bar and cap it in the panel. given you're electrically challenged, this might be beyond your current ability.

overkill would be to disconnect the neutral at the panel, change the existing plug to 6-30R receptacle and put 6-30P plugs on all the tools. this takes the neutral out of the equation but assumes that dryer plug (14-30R) isn't being used by a dryer.

My other thought was to make an extension cord with a dryer 220 line and terminate the one end with a female plug that would accept the style of plug on the Nova, and put the same plug on the other two tools.

i wouldn't do this as it leaves a neutral connected at the panel that is unused at the appliance (tools). probably no risk, but i'm a belt and suspenders type.

Any assistance from any of you electrical gurus would be greatly appreciated.

Greg



260769260770260772260773

hope this helps

[Doug Ladendorf]

Greg, the neutral wire that Joseph is talking about is not used thus the recommendation to terminate at the panel. That outlet is for a 220v appliance that also requires 110v (e.g. A light bulb). Notice it is for four prongs but you only have three wires.

Since you are starting over my recommendation is to have an electrician install a sub panel (60 amp?) for you in the garage. This will give you flexibility to grow and add circuits if you need. You may want a dedicated 220v 20 amp line for the dust collector, and another line or two for machines.

As far as plugs I prefer the twist lock style.

[Sam Stephens]

Joseph gives sound advice. If you're in doubt, please have an electrician do this for you. Another fire is not worth it. Cost would be minimal to switch out the receptacle. A subpanel is another great option, but may not be cheap and the size depends on your current service amps supplied. If you're only using one tool at a time (+ a DC), then there's not really any benefit IMO.

[Rich Riddle]

You have one plug in your photographs. That's a 15 Amp 220 plug with one hot leg going to the white wire and one hot leg going to the black wire. The green goes to ground. No "neutral" wire is used in this configuration. Since both hot lugs are horizontal, that's a 15 amp plug. If it was a 220 volt 20 amp plug, one lug on the plug would be horizontal and one vertical. Consequently, you shouldn't be running any tool with a motor rated above 15 amps. You can use 14 gauge wire on a 15 amp plug. You would be fine operating a 3 HP motor on the 220VAC 15 amp plug/circuit.

[Rich Riddle]

Regarding the two photographs showing wires, the following should prove true.

1. The green wires in both photographs represents ground, so wire that to any ground lug on the plugs you purchase.
2. The black wires in both photographs represent a "hot leg." Wire each black wire to a hot lug on whatever 220 VAC plug you choose to purchase.
3. The red wire in the one photograph represents a "hot leg." Wire the red wire to a hot lug on whatever 220 VAC plug you choose to purchase.
4. The white wire in the one photograph represents a "hot leg." Wire the white wire to a hot lug on whatever 220 VAC plug you choose to purchase. I choose to either place red or black heat shrink on each end of the wire and shrink it over the white wire or paint the white wire with black or red liquid tape. That way I never make a mistake of forgetting that wire is hot when working/rewiring plugs. Few others do this.

[David Gutierrez]

Last fall I had a 60 amp sub placed in my garage and already regret not having a larger panel. i discovered that a small electric heater requires 20 amps, dust collector is 2hp requires 20 amps and the table saw requires 20 amps all at 220. So i am pluggin and unplugging heater and dust colector in the winter. i also have two 20amp 120V circuits. IF
had to do it over i would have the capacity for a 30amp 220V heater with both DC and saw running.

[Wade Lippman]

Last fall I had a 60 amp sub placed in my garage and already regret not having a larger panel. i discovered that a small electric heater requires 20 amps, dust collector is 2hp requires 20 amps and the table saw requires 20 amps all at 220. So i am pluggin and unplugging heater and dust colector in the winter. i also have two 20amp 120V circuits. IF
had to do it over i would have the capacity for a 30amp 220V heater with both DC and saw running.

Do you HAVE to do all that unplugging?
I put in a 60 subpanel, but only had a 30a breaker; so I used it "temporarily" to run my 3hp cyclone and 3hp tool (ts, jointer, bs). It has never tripped the breaker, so I never bothered to replace it. So it is kinda hard to see why 60a isn't enough for you.

[David Gutierrez]

I have two 220V outlets on separate circuits and three tools. So i always need to unplug something. Am I missing something?

[Doug Ladendorf]

David, your 2hp dust collector running on 220v should require something like 9 amps. Does the motor say differently? Heaters do draw a lot of power. Something for the OP to consider if he uses one or might in the future.

[Chris Friesen]

Just a note if you're considering a subpanel--when I did my garage it was cheaper to buy a 100A "house" panel package (with main breakers and a mix of circuit breakers) than it was to buy a dedicated "subpanel" with no main breakers.

This actually adds flexibility since you can power off the subpanel in the garage to work on the panel circuits rather than needing to turn it off at the main panel. Also, the exact Amp rating of the subpanel doesn't matter at all as long as it's equal to or bigger than the actual incoming amperage. (That is, oversized is fine.)

[Wade Lippman]

I have two 220V outlets on separate circuits and three tools. So i always need to unplug something. Am I missing something?

Well, the issue is why don't you just put in a third circuit? Unless your subpanel is full, with the 4 circuits, you don't need more capacity.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Also, the exact Amp rating of the subpanel doesn't matter at all as long as it's equal to or bigger than the actual incoming amperage. (That is, oversized is fine.)

Good point Chris. My panel is rated to 100 or 110 amps but the service to it is 60A.

[John Piwaron]

The pictured outlet looks like one for an electric clothes dryer - 120VAC with a 30A draw maximum. If it was wired correctly there's 10 gauge wire connected to it.

The plug is for a 220VAC 15A draw maximum.

I'd change the outlet. I'd also look at the circuit breaker for that outlet and make sure it is appropriate for that use. And the wire gauge connected to it. 14 gauge is o.k., 12 gauge is better especially on a long run. It has less voltage drop. 10 gauge would work really well for this but is way overkill. Voltage drop is bad for motors.

[Steve Baumgartner]

Just a note if you're considering a subpanel--when I did my garage it was cheaper to buy a 100A "house" panel package (with main breakers and a mix of circuit breakers) than it was to buy a dedicated "subpanel" with no main breakers.


Check with your local inspector before doing this! Many codes require a feed breaker in the main panel and do not allow a second main breaker in the subpanel.

[David Gutierrez]

The panel is full 6 breakers which is why i recommend a larger panel.

[David Gutierrez]

The heater takes about 17 amps. which i think is the max for a 20 amp circuit. i actually could use a larger heater. My 2 car garage is under the bedrooms, only has two exterior walls and the heater cannot get it above 50 degrees when the temps are in the teens. The saw is 3hp and fills another 20 amp circuit. Poor planning on my part i should have used a 100 amp panel.

[Pete Duffy]

Hire an electrician. Put in a bigger subpanel than you think you will need, with lots of breaker spaces. Also note that the subpanel will need to have an isolated "neutral" bar. I put the quotes around "neutral" because these days it is called the grounded conductor, not to be confused with the equipment groundING conductor (ECG, or green wire.)

Hire an electrician. Get it done right and safely. Sleep well at night.

BTW, I am not an electrician. but I have seen too much DIY electrical work done by unqualified people. I'm sure there are plenty of qualified people in the responses above, but if you have to ask these types of questions, then you need to hire an electrician. Not trying to slam anyone. But electrical is something to be respected.

[Chris Padilla]

Google this: nema plug chart

[Michael Dunn]

I have a 40 amp sub panel in my 2 car attached garage shop. My TS, BS, DC, Planer, A/C, Jointer, and compressor are all wired for 220V. If you have only one man in your shop 40-60 amps should be enough. I wanted 60A, but my electrician friend pointed out that 1. I couldn't fit large enough wire through the conduit with the other existing wires. 2. Didn't need 60A because I'm only one guy.

I'll never have my TS, BS, jointer, and planer on at the same time. Only TS, and DC or BS and DC or jointer and DC. In the summer the A/C will be on. The compressor also comes on intermittently. I do have two separate 220V circuits now though. Anyway, I'm just trying to say that 60A should be enough, especially if you're the only man in the shop.

[Thomas Bank]

If you have only one man in your shop 40-60 amps should be enough.

[clip]

Anyway, I'm just trying to say that 60A should be enough, especially if you're the only man in the shop.

I've got 200amp to my one man workshop... :)

Of course, I have the potential to have the 5hp compressor, 80amp plasma cutter, CNC computer, lights, and heat all running at once... The TIG is on its own 100amp circuit...

[Michael Dunn]

Touché... However, my comment was directed towards David G and based on what he said he had in his shop. I'm well aware of the high current draw of some one man shops. TWW for instance 200A panel.

[Thomas Bank]

I think that even for what he was describing he could likely use more than 60amps.

Another forum I'm on, any time someone starts asking about how much power to run to their shop there are always the guys who step in saying all anyone would ever need is 60amps (or 100amps) and that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY any single person could possibly need more than that...

So I typically post my setup... :) Then I get a discussion on how I must be crazy or something...

Thing is, on that forum (like this forum) the people are already doing more in their shops or garages than 90% of their neighbors. I doubt that even a quarter of my neighbors on my block have even a circular saw. A tablesaw? You must be a professional contractor or something! :)

[David Gutierrez]

I am can get by with the 60 amp panel you are correct. But the DC and TS both require 20 amps. The heater i run is also 20A and was limited to that size because of the cicuit size. i would have preferred a larger heater, ie a 30A, but was limited by the panel size and number of spaces for the breakers. if i had to do it over i would have gotten a 100 amp panel. Just my two cents the 60 amp panel limits flexiblity. The differnce in cost between the two panels is not that much.

[Joseph Tarantino]

whatever happened to the OP?

[Jim Neeley]

Hey guys,

Let's be careful not to mix apples and potatoes (aka apples and oranges) here.

A 60A panel is rated for a feed UP TO 60A. Likewise a 100A panel is rated for UP TO a 100A feed. You can always underfeed a panel as long as your wiring and breakers are sized correctly.

For example, my 4-car shop has a dedicated 100A feed, with wire sized for that load and a 100A main breaker on the meter panel feeding it. I am installing a 225A panel to get the number of breakers I desire. That panel supports 42 breakers and up to 60 circuits. As far as load, I'm a 1-man shop so the max load would be if my 5hp Unisaw and 5hp Cyclone were running and, for somereason, my 5hp compressor kicked on, plus lights. In that unlikely event I could be drawing 60-80 amps, MAX.

I am doing this because I'm running 10/3+gnd home run from each 4-11 receptacle box so at any time in the future I can make any receptacle 240V up to 30A by just changing the breaker and receptacle. This gives me maximum future shop arrangability and supports up to two 120V 20A duplex receptacles, each on its own breaker, to provide plenty of power should I be running my 15A router and 11A shop vac concurrently. It's overkill, no doubt, but it's perfectly OK according to code, at least in my jurisdiction.

My point is that you can run 60A service to a larger panel as long as the main breaker at the meter is 60A and the wire is large enough to supply it. In my first shop I had a little 60A panel installed and, only after it was done did I learn I could have installed a larger panel for a few dollars more.

Jim in Alaska (where the NEC applies) :-)

[Rick Moyer]

whatever happened to the OP?
I know. It's like someone asking a question at a cocktail party, leaving, and everyone left carrying on their own conversations about it. I found your comment regarding this amusing, as I was thinking the same thing.

[David C. Roseman]

Yes, but think of all the wisdom that's been shared on this thread in the meantime. :)

David

[David Gutierrez]

My apologies I did not intend to hijack the thread, just got carried away with the conversation.