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Albert Nix
04-22-2013, 11:05 AM
Just got an email request for a quote on 50 metal trophy cups with no lids or engraving from halfway across the country. They stated the price range that they needed to be in which would be good money and had an attachment in the email with and image of what they wanted. But I wouldn't open it for fear of a possible virus. So replied to the email and ask him to call me and got a quick response. He wants to know what payment method I take. I gave him a price on the phone but he insist I email the price to him. I hate to turn my nose up at a chance to make a thousand bucks but it sure smells like a scam. What would be the most secure payment method. If I take a card number over the phone they could cancel it after they get the cups or it could be a hot card.

John Frazee
04-22-2013, 11:22 AM
Sounds like maybe a Nigerian scam. It's normally shirts they try to order. I would have to pass.

John Bion
04-22-2013, 11:27 AM
Hi Al,
In my limmited understanding: if you are unsure of the guy, go direct bank transfer (Bacs etc), this would be a bit more sure as long as you ensure that funds are in your account prior to shipping. It does mean giving him your acc name, branch zip code and acc number though.
kind regards,
John

Albert Nix
04-22-2013, 11:41 AM
Already have an uneasy feeling about this deal, would be real uneasy handing out a bank account number. The guy called me and on the caller ID the area code showed up as a Maryland number. Have to make him repeat himself 3 or 4 time to make out what he is saying. Can some one call from out of the country and make it look like originates in the states?

Martin Boekers
04-22-2013, 11:51 AM
Pay Pal?

These usually are a scam, You should be able to scan for a Virus or Malware before opening. Get more info address etc.

If he wants to pay for more than the price and shipping, you'll know. You can also Google his info or phone number as
that will show up a scam sometimes. How did he find you?

Scott Shepherd
04-22-2013, 11:52 AM
Your bank info is safe to give, it's a 1 way number that only works for putting money into your account, not taking it out.

Sure, you can call from anywhere in the world and make it look like just about anything. I'd want to talk to him on the phone and I'd express my concerns.

9 out of 10 times, your gut feeling is probably dead on accurate. Just leave the door open wide enough for it to really happen if that 1 time it's wrong, you can handle the order and deal with it, safely.

Gary Hair
04-22-2013, 12:14 PM
Everything about that screams scam to me. I would never communicate with them, all that does is let them know they have a "live one" and you'll get more calls and emails from every scammer on the planet. The only way I would do business with them is if they brought cash to pay you, cashiers checks, money orders, credit cards, etc., can all be forged and you will be out a lot of money in the end. If you give them your account number to have money wired to you then you open yourself up to all kinds of problems when they use your account number to scam other people. You really have to ask yourself why they would contact you "from halfway across the country" for blank parts at a price that will net you "a thousand bucks"... Believe me, you are not that lucky.

Albert Nix
04-22-2013, 12:18 PM
Good question Martin! With that much dirt between him and me he would have had to be doing a local search search. The local chamber has that email address posted. If he had found my web site he would be using a different email address. Thanks Scott I haven't ever talked with the bank about how they handle transfers but I think it is time.

Gary Hair
04-22-2013, 12:19 PM
Your bank info is safe to give, it's a 1 way number that only works for putting money into your account, not taking it out.
It may be a 1 way number but that won't stop them from using it in other scams like forging checks.


Sure, you can call from anywhere in the world and make it look like just about anything. I'd want to talk to him on the phone and I'd express my concerns.
you give them your phone number and you will be getting more calls from other scammers - you have just told them that you are a "live one"


9 out of 10 times, your gut feeling is probably dead on accurate.
With the info he provided, 10 out of 10 times it will be a scam


Just leave the door open wide enough for it to really happen if that 1 time it's wrong, you can handle the order and deal with it, safely.
Sorry, there is no safe way to deal with these (potential) scammers. Any info you give them can be used in future scams and it will probably have consequences that will affect you.

Tom Buzz Bernard
04-22-2013, 12:23 PM
The guy called me and on the caller ID the area code showed up as a Maryland number. Have to make him repeat himself 3 or 4 time to make out what he is saying. Can some one call from out of the country and make it look like originates in the states?

Yes, my friend calls me all the time from Guatemala and it shows up on caller ID in the states. He uses a computer jack to make the call.

Scott Shepherd
04-22-2013, 12:27 PM
There's no way to forge a check from the number used to do a direct wire transfer.

True about the phone number, if it's a scam, you told them your number, but you've already responded via email, which means you've already told them you're a live one, and your email probably has your web address on it, which probably has your phone number, so I'm not sure you've given them anything they couldn't have gotten in 10 seconds from what you already gave them.

It might very well be a scam. Probably is. I've also had cases where they turned out to be real, when all along, I thought it was a scam. Turns out they were unhappy with local quality, went to google and found us. You just never know for sure until you ask a few questions.

There are ways to deal with them to verify they are a real business. If not, then it's easy enough to stop correspondence with them.

As mentioned, emails have already been sent back, so you've already verified you exist.

We've done work for people all over the country, so I do try and take a little time to verify it's real vs. scam. Only way to do so is to ask questions.

John Frazee
04-22-2013, 12:30 PM
An old friend of mine received a $50,000.00 shirt order one time. She was very religious and said it was a blessing that the Lord was answering her prayers! I warned her but she didn't listen. She accepted a credit card that actually went through at first. The bank said it was good. While a trucking company was there unloading the shirts to be printed, the bank called and said it was a scam. The credit card went through at first but then went south.

Albert Nix
04-22-2013, 12:45 PM
Thanks for all the replies, I guess it is like they say if it sounds to good to be true it usually is.

Dan Hintz
04-22-2013, 1:26 PM
It does mean giving him your acc name, branch zip code and acc number though.

Don't ever, under any circumstances, give someone that information... with it, they can clean house.

Kim Vellore
04-22-2013, 1:39 PM
Call his number back and see where it goes. You can also check if his phone # is registered to a business. Kim

Chuck Stone
04-22-2013, 2:23 PM
Call me contrary .. but I'm not seeing anything that looks like a scam to me yet.

Scammers don't usually call on the phone because it can be tracked back to them.
And as for needing a quote in writing? I would too! I want something written down
somewhere that says what I'll be paying.. especially if I'm just in a position to order
on behalf of someone else and need to be able to get reimbursed.. I wouldn't expect
anyone to pay me back based on a verbal .. and don't think anyone else would either.

99.9% of my orders are from 'across the country' and while Paypal has been fine for
the most part, I can see your hesitation on a larger order because Paypal freezes
funds first in a dispute, then takes their time sorting everything out. And they tend
to side with buyers, rather than follow the logic and paper trail.

But a certified check from a bank local to him should be OK.. you can call the bank
in question and confirm funds. The way banks work now, they don't even wait for
the physical check (or even keep/return them!) they just process it electronically.

AL Ursich
04-22-2013, 7:57 PM
My Business Credit Card got hacked last week... They charged $6.32 from a non existent Motel then Credited it... Then 2 or 3 went for the Big Bucks.... All failed.... Got a call from the Card... Talking to Loss Prevention they say one of the newest scams is the kids going to work with MOM on the Night Time Cleaning Crew. While Mom is scrubbing the toilet, the kids are going through the file cabinets and trash looking for Credit Card Numbers to SELL....


I am telling my suppliers now to take the first number of the card and add that to the last number... Write that number down.... And know to subtract it to use the card... OR better off.. NOT keep it at all...

Smells like a Scam to me....


AL

Albert Nix
04-22-2013, 9:34 PM
I feel like it is too. I deleted the email and will any more that make it through. I wish folks spent as much time making an honest living as they do tring to stealing from others.

Mark Sipes
04-22-2013, 9:55 PM
I had a local distributor take an order from a new customer for 5,000 magnets, pin fasteners, etc. credit card went through, but she had a feeling......... shipped the product and 2 days later she was required to charge the card back.......... she was out the product and the CC % processing fees........

Ross Moshinsky
04-22-2013, 10:45 PM
I had a local distributor take an order from a new customer for 5,000 magnets, pin fasteners, etc. credit card went through, but she had a feeling......... shipped the product and 2 days later she was required to charge the card back.......... she was out the product and the CC % processing fees........

That's not exactly how it works. If you do your due diligence and provide evidence that you sent the items, they were received, and the customer got what they ordered the credit card company should have sided with the distributor.

As for this thread, we get requests on a regular enough basis from people outside of the state. Most of the time it's a scam. Sometimes it's just people looking to collect information and get quotes. The other times it's real customers looking for product.

The trick is to treat the customer as a scammer. Make sure you get all approvals via email. Ger paid in full before you send anything out. Take photos of the finished products. Send the packages out where customer signature is required. If you do the following, you should have no real issues. You can even discuss the topic with your credit card processor if you're concerned. There are a few credit card processors that are not very trust worthy (Paypal) so it might take a bit of work to find someone that will actually back you up if and when the time comes.

Joe Pelonio
04-23-2013, 9:01 AM
It's too bad we have to worry about whether a "customer" is a scammer or not. The way this person asked for the items (with no engraving and large quantity) does sound fishy. Still, I have several good, regular customers that are on the other side of the country. That's why we have websites, to attract people from other places. The scams I have been sent were all similar to this, 100 banners all the same, and questions about form of payment, I think you are wise to forget this one.

Albert Nix
04-23-2013, 9:56 AM
Yeah I offered to help him find some one close to where he said he was, just see what the response would be and he said no one could get them for him, this was after I call a couple of major suppliers and both said they had plenty of cups close by. It could be like a scam like I heard about a while back. A group over seas is collecting CC numbers and placing orders and having all the orders shipped to one central location in the states. They would rent a place and pay some one to stay there and receive the packages then they would be re-boxed and shipped out of the country. This come from a driver that delivers for one of the major package haulers. He said around Christmas it wasn't uncommon to back up to one of these places and unload 20 or 30 boxes, go back a week later and make a pick up with all of it going out of the country. He said the drivers would blow the whistle on them until the brass told them to stay out of it. Most likely for safety reasons!!!! But it must be BIG business.

Tim Bateson
04-23-2013, 12:24 PM
...There are a few credit card processors that are not very trust worthy (Paypal) ...

I use PayPal for all of my credit card orders (I only pay the usual PayPal fees). Just make your case like you would any other credit card service. I speak from experience - I've never lost a penny to a bad customer.

Martin Boekers
04-23-2013, 12:37 PM
I wonder what happens if the card is stolen? Who loses on this? A local grocery chain had a couple million cards
compromised recently so I am curious. If someone pays with a stolen card and it goes through can the charge
company charge you back?

Dan Hintz
04-23-2013, 1:36 PM
I wonder what happens if the card is stolen? Who loses on this? A local grocery chain had a couple million cards
compromised recently so I am curious. If someone pays with a stolen card and it goes through can the charge
company charge you back?

It's a pretty simple formula... if there is even the slightest chance the CC company will lose money, they'll take it from the person who had the money last.

In other words, if you received payment from a stolen card, they could care less what you did with that money (such as buying material and shipping it out), they will want it back.

Albert Nix
04-23-2013, 1:47 PM
Not sure but I think the CC Company is the big looser. I think their only recourse is to try to track down the one that used the card. Back when the CC machines printed the whole number on the receipts somebody got me. They called the CC company and had the mailing address for the statement changed so it went through a billing cycle before I caught it. Someone bought a s#@*t load of clothes with my card, about 4k worth lol. CC company said they were going after the ones that used it but never did find out what happen. I bet they didn't catch them.

Joe Hillmann
04-23-2013, 2:21 PM
Since this thread seems to be getting off topic I'll share my experiences with scams like this. I often get emails requesting large amounts of glass to be cut and shipped with the idea being they will send a check that covers the material and shipping then they will have there shipper come pick up the glass and I write them a check to cover shipping. Then something happens with the shipping on there end and they ask me to send them a check for the shipping so they can pay the shipper up front rather than me paying them. After it is all said and done the original check they sent bounces but they have already cashed the check that is supposed to cover shipping.

I get emails like that nearly every month. I don't bother reading them, just delete them. Although one time I did have a local business ask for a quote on several pieces of frosted glass and I passed on it because I assumed it was a scan. It wasn't until weeks later when the company contacted me about another job that I realized it wasn't a scam.


One time before we heard about this type of scam we sold a van on Craigslist. The "buyer" contacted us wanting to buy the van but for some. He claimed to be away on work so he said he would send us a check. When we got the check (through fedex) it was from some collage on the east cost and was for several hundred dollars more than the price we agreed on. It came with a note saying he was going to be away on work longer than he thought and would have someone come pick up the van and we were to pay that person the shipping charges. At that point we were pretty sure it was a scam, we brought the check to the bank to see if it was a real check. All the bank was able to do was check to see if that collage actually had a bank account but not much more. The bank told us they could cash the check but since we thought it was fishy that there was a good chance it would bounce but that may take a week or two to know for sure.

We ended up calling the collage that the check was from and they said they got calls like that every day for the last two months and that it was a scam.

The bank ended up contacting the police and the police contacted us. They said since this type of thing happens all the time all they would do is take down a report and not do anything with it. They also said scams like this never use the post office. If they do it becomes mail fraud and then the federal government can get involved and there chances of being caught are much higher.


And one last story (this one is third hand so I would assume some of it has been exaggerated). There is a lady who live in the same town I used to live in. She met a man online and after they hit it off he asked if he could have a few Christmas gifts sent to her house and then have her repackage them so they can be shipped to him in south America cheaper than if he had them shipped one at a time. She agreed and a few days later she was getting UPS trucks unloading the entire truck at her place. After a couple days of that she figured out it was a scam and called the cops. It turns out the "man" she met online was a group of people in somewhere out of the country who were using stolen credit card numbers to order items with the plan of storing it at her house then getting a freight shipper to to either ship it out of the country or somewhere else where it could be resold without being tracked. According to the stories in just a mater of two or three days she had every room in her house filled and also had piles of boxes in her yard under tarps.

John Salitsky
04-23-2013, 3:56 PM
It's sad we have to sort through this to do business but it is what it is. I get requests all the time for quotes o rediculously large amounts of items. Like 5000 thumb drives. You can usually spot if it's a scammer or some other unsrupulous individual but you always have that little voice in the back of your head saying "What if it's the real deal?".

Chuck Stone
04-23-2013, 4:47 PM
Yeah I offered to help him find some one close to where he said he was, just see what the response would be and he said no one could get them for him, this was after I call a couple of major suppliers and both said they had plenty of cups close by.

yeah.. that definitely sounds fishy now

Dan Hintz
04-24-2013, 7:48 AM
Not sure but I think the CC Company is the big looser. I think their only recourse is to try to track down the one that used the card.

Nope, the merchant is the loser in this game. Guaranteed. The CC company removes the money from the direct deposit account (the merchant's), the money is returned to the person who's card was stolen, and the merchant also gets the nice cherry on top of still paying the CC processing fee. If the merchant is lucky, they find out it's a scam and return the money themselves before informing the CC company of what's up... if they're not lucky, they have a ding on their record with the processing company for having a stolen card used on their account and all of the above happens anyway. The CC owner is inconvenienced for a few days, but that's about it.

Martin Boekers
04-24-2013, 11:12 AM
You know what really ticks me off about some of this is the way the "authorities" approach it. If the giy was going to send someone over to pick up the van why didn't the police make arrangements to be there?
"It happens all the time" is no reason not to enforce the law. I had an issue when someone hacked my charge card, the bank stopped payment until I could verify the charge. I called the company (In Europe go
figure... :) ) and told them it was not valid. They withdrew the request from the bank, which at that point I was told by my bank there there was no legal recourse so the bank dropped it since no exchange occured.
I guess it's ok to ask for funds but it's not illeagal unless they actually change hands?!!!! This is why there are these type of issues.

Joe Hillmann
04-24-2013, 11:41 AM
The way the scam works they were never going to send someone to pick up the van.

There original deal was they were going to send me a check to hold on to the van until they could get over to pick it up. The reason they couldn't come right away was they were out of the country on business.

When they sent me the check the deal changed to I would cash the check and then pay the shipping guys who were coming to pick up the van. The reason it changed was because they have to stay away on business longer then they thought.

Then the deal changed again, I was supposed to refund the "buyer" the shipping by mailing him a check so he can pay the shippers up front. His reason this change was because he made a mistake and misunderstood the shipping contract. He though it said payment on pick up but it actually said payment before pick up.

If the seller just accepted all the changes to the deal without question the buyer would now have a valid check sent to them (somewhere outside of the US) for the amount overpaid for shipping. The seller would have a bounced check and be out what ever the shipping costs were.

The scammer was never even in the country so there is no way for the cops to actually do anything. The scammer also had no intrest in what was being sold, there only interest was in getting a valid check for the shipping.

Chuck Stone
04-24-2013, 11:24 PM
The scammer was never even in the country so there is no way for the cops to actually do anything. The scammer also had no intrest in what was being sold, there only interest was in getting a valid check for the shipping.

That's why I ignore emails about buying "your item"
And usually they want Western Union because they
can't afford to give you a real address that can be
traced. (foreign police agencies will sometimes look
into these things unofficially as a favor) With wired
money, all they need is a bogus ID and the transaction
number.