Is There An Easier Way To Do This?

[Julie Moriarty]

I was looking at the cabinet doors and realized the sharp corners on the edges made the doors look unfinished. I took one of the sample doors I made for dye testing and cut a 45 degree bevel on the outer edge. I liked it! After cutting the bevel on the doors after glue-up I couldn't get settled on the bevel being only on the outside. I would have taken the router and cut the inside bevel but there's only 1/4" depth so a bearing bit can't be used.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/Kitchen%20Cabinets/bevel_zps0f30c658.jpg
(The bevel was cut after the dye and finish were applied but on the finished door the cut will be dyed)

I was thinking I could use an edge guide and a V-groove router bit to make the inside bevel but I'd have to be very careful when I reached the corners. I have a total of 35 insets (140 edges) to cut, if I decide to do this, so doing it by hand is not on my list of options. The problem with the edge guide is all of the rails and stiles would have to be the exact width. After edge clean up, post glue-up, I doubt that is any longer the case.

I have a Bosch Colt router kit and these are the options I have in making this cut:

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/Tools/Bosch-PR20EVSNK_zps1d234ee6.jpg

On the offset base, the bit is mounted just below the red button. The tilt base would allow me to use a straight bit but I'd still have to be careful at the corners. The roller guide and underscribe attachments wouldn't work for this application.

It seems there should be some other way to cut an inside bevel accurately, but I'm drawing a blank. Has anyone done this? If so, what method did you use?

[Mel Fulks]

I'm sure you can do it somehow,but I like it the way it is now. With a fairly dark color that shadow line is helpful. Don't want it to look flat from across the room. The bevel on the edge is nice.

[keith micinski]

I can't imagine attempting this and not ruining half of the doors completely and the other half ending up only ok. Leave them how they are now your just asking for trouble for such a small detail.

[Lee Schierer]

A router table with a fence should give you consistent bevels on all doors and not clip the corners. Start with the bottom or top of a door first, then go clockwise around the door, finishing with a stile.

[Aaron Berk]

I could cut all those bevels pretty quick on my Radial Arm Saw .

But I think I'd go lee's rout first and use a router table.
Are you worried about scratching the finish by sliding the doors on a table? Or are they not yet finished?

[david brum]

That job begs to be done with hand tools. It's a perfect excuse to get (if you don't already have one) one of these.

[Aaron Berk]

I could cut all those bevels pretty quick on my Radial Arm Saw .

But I think I'd go lee's rout first and use a router table.
Are you worried about scratching the finish by sliding the doors on a table? Or are they not yet finished?



I'm all wrong here!!! SORRY

Your trying to do the INSIDE of the rails and stiles.
SO I see the point of an edge guide and V grove bit.

I think you have the right approach, unless you have access to an over arm router.

[Matt Mitman]

Why not make up templates for each door size, glue or clamp them in place, then route with a bushing or top bearing bit? It should guarantee you get everything just right as long as nothing slips. Alternatively, you could use the edge guide, with stop blocks clamped at the end to stop it when its positioned right at the corner.

[Julie Moriarty]

That job begs to be done with hand tools. It's a perfect excuse to get (if you don't already have one) one of these.

I was just looking at that in the Lee Valley catalog the other day. I'd have to figure out how to keep the blade from slipping into the panel and gouging it. The rail & stile are plain-sawn mahogany and varies a lot in grain pattern. I was also looking at one of these, Clifton #3110:
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/assets/images/product/JapanWoodworker/78.311.jpg
But it's about twice the price of the Veritas plane.

I think no matter what route I take, it's going to take a lot of time. It's hard putting so much of yourself into kitchen cabinets. All I can see is one day someone happily taking a sledge hammer to them so they can replace the cabinets with some cheap big box cabinets... cuz they're new.

[keith micinski]

If you aren't experienced with using a chisel plane getting a consistent bevel on an inside corner by hand on a piece that is already built is a fools errand. Again its such a small detail that isn't going to affect the overall project that much if it is done right but will ruin the doors if done wrong I really think this is one of those times that you call good enough good enough.

[Stephen Cherry]

Bosch 85131? It might need the little guide shortened and polished.

260546

[keith micinski]

A router bit wont work it will leave a rounded corner on an inside corner and would need cleaned up with a chisel or chisel plane.

[david brum]

I was just looking at that in the Lee Valley catalog the other day. I'd have to figure out how to keep the blade from slipping into the panel and gouging it. The rail & stile are plain-sawn mahogany and varies a lot in grain pattern. I was also looking at one of these, Clifton #3110:
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/assets/images/product/JapanWoodworker/78.311.jpg
But it's about twice the price of the Veritas plane.

I think no matter what route I take, it's going to take a lot of time. It's hard putting so much of yourself into kitchen cabinets. All I can see is one day someone happily taking a sledge hammer to them so they can replace the cabinets with some cheap big box cabinets... cuz they're new.

I'll bet you could put something like scrap laminate over the panels to protect them while you were cutting the chamfers. You're right about the potential for tear out, although it seems easier to control on a chamfer cut as long as you're taking shallow passes. I like those Clifton 3 in 1 planes also. By the time you buy a shoulder plane and a bullnose plane, you've spent that much anyway.

I know what you mean about putting your soul into a project, knowing that future owners won't appreciate your work. I recently did a whole room of glass front cabinets and matching Murphy bed. It included custom French doors. Then we moved out of the condo leaving all that work for the buyer, who couldn't have cared less. Sigh.

I think it's best to think of amateur woodworking as therapy, where the actual goal is to keep you sane and happy.

[Julie Moriarty]

Bosch 85131? It might need the little guide shortened and polished.

260546

I was thinking something like this. I remember back when I first tried out a router, my boyfriend had Craftsmen router and bits like these (non-bearing type) but I also remember burn marks on the wood. The wood was probably pine and most likely construction grade lumber, so that may not be an issue. I'm running this by my kitchen expert friends to see of they notice the inside edges aren't beveled. If not, I'm off the hook. :D

[johnny means]

They make fences just for this application. I do it with a piece of 1/8" scrap double face taped to the router base. The two fence faces must be perpendicular and centered with the center of the bit. This will get you all the way into the corner, leaving a radiused corner which can be cleaned up with a chisel.

260566

The fence rides inside the frame. Turn the router 90 degrees after each corner.

[Roger Rayburn]

Good Grief! Build a "one time tool" Drill a hole in a piece of plywood that your router bit will fit through. Remove your router base plate and Bolt your Colt to the bottom. Clamp a plywood straightedge (with a hole in the "fence edge" for the bearing) to the table top. Suspend your "router table between two sawhorses or chair and clamp it down' Run samples until you are happy with the "size" of the bevel. Run your doors in the order Lee suggested (rails then stiles). The fence provides the support your bearing can't. Cheaper than a shoulder plane and a shorter learning curve. When you are finished with the doors, drill a 5/16 inch hole in one corner of the plywood so you can hang it from the rafter like Norm Abrams. Your first in your growing collection of home made jigs, fixtures and tool accessories.

[Denny Rice]

I'm sure you can do it somehow,but I like it the way it is now. With a fairly dark color that shadow line is helpful. Don't want it to look flat from across the room. The bevel on the edge is nice.

I have to Agree with Mel. I like the contrasting edges on the cabinet door.

[Rich Engelhardt]

+3 for leave the inside as is.
Personally - I feel a bevel on the inside would look odd and out of place on that style of door.

[Julie Moriarty]

Your first in your growing collection of home made jigs, fixtures and tool accessories.

...that you'll never use again. :D I'm thinking about building a wall to hang all those one-time jigs.

But the jig is a great idea and certainly worth experimenting with. I've got three mock-up doors to get it right. Thank you guys!

[Mark Woodmark]

What would you do with the inside corner then as it will be rounded? Maybe I dont totally understand. I would make some sort of guide for the router base to ride against. It would have to be "L" shaped to include the corner or have a rectangular middle cutout the size of which would allow the bevel to be created in the correct place, You would still have to bevel the corner square by hand though

[Thomas love]

Hi Julie. yes there is , I Have done this thousands of times in many applications including doors. after m&t work is done dry fit doors (if door joints are snug no need to clamp while routing if not then clamp from back side then route bevels on router table with bearing on 45 bit) next step do as in pics. Do no slot until bevel work is done. Knock doors apart and run through slotting bit on R-table using fence. the rails you can pass straight through the styles I start cut in mortise with router running and stop at opposite mortise. When trimming with pull saw you do not need to cut exact to line ,chisel will do this very easy.260720260724260720260721260722260723

[Peter Quinn]

My solution for similar things has been to dry fit the frame sans panel, route the chamfer or desired profile, clean up the corners carefully after glue up with a skew chisel. Above post seems a similar method, though with the right chamfer bit I'm not sure it matters if slots are done before or after chamfer.

[Chris Friesen]

Why not make up templates for each door size, glue or clamp them in place, then route with a bushing or top bearing bit?

This is how I'd do it as well.

[Thomas love]

I noted to route slots afterwards so there is less chance of the bearing on chamfer bit ending up in panel groove or to close to it.

[keith micinski]

Am I reading the original posters post wrong? I could swear she is saying the doors are already built so any solution that involves the doors not already being made seems pointless. She also states that she has a lot of doors to do and using hand tools doesn't really seem like an option. Any solution using a router is going to involve cleaning up the corners with a hand tool.

[Mark Woodmark]

Kieth, I mentioned that too. Cleanup would have to be done with a chisel. How would a plane get into the corner? I would make a template for either the router base to ride against or a guide bushing to ride against and rout it with a V groove bit. The template could be either a piece of hardboard with a rectangular hole in the center or if the doors are all different sizes a piece of hardboard shaped like an L so 2 sides can be routed at one time, then rotate the template and do the other two sides being careful each time not to go too far into the corner (you have to chisel the corners anyway, so no need to get right into the exposed corner)

[Mark Woodmark]

Why not make a bevel shaped trim piece of moulding and glue and pin nail it to the inside edge mitering the corners

[Keith Christopher]

chisel plane +1000. You will have more control and it will be less prone to an 'uh oh' moment.

[Larry Fox]

chisel plane +1000. You will have more control and it will be less prone to an 'uh oh' moment.

+1001 on the chisel plane. If you don't think you could keep it steady you could build a 45-degree ramp that you could clamp to the outside of the door to use as a guide. Piece of cardboard or something laid on the panel would protect it. The chamfers look really small and it would likely take a very small number of passes. This doesn't feel like a power tool job to me.

That said, from an aesthetics / design perspective, I do agree with others that they look fine without the inside bevel.

[Julie Moriarty]

Thanks for the additional help guys. Yes, the doors are already glued up. So my options are limited.

I tried the "corner fence" and found the piece has to be PERFECTLY aligned on both the x and y axis or you won't get the same bevel cut. That can be a real pain when working with double sided tape. I have turner's tape and when it's on, it's hard to get off! I broke two fences trying to make adjustments and still didn't get it right. The other problem is you have to make sure the half fence stays completely in contact or you risk gouging the door frame. Keeping that steady hand throughout all those doors is iffy.

I have a LN chisel plane and I tried it on some sample pieces. The problem I encountered was when the grain snagged it and pulled it in. Because I would have to cut from both directions, I can't guarantee every cut will be with the grain.

I've taken these doors from 2x slabs, resawed to thickness, planed them, sanded them, cut mortises and tenons, routed the panels, glued them up and sanded them for finish. It's been a lot of hours and I've lost any interest in repeating the process. The outside bevel was an afterthought. It worked out well and all the doors now have it. I knew the inside bevel would be a challenge, at this stage, but whatever I did had to be foolproof because I would crash and burn if I had to start all over again. I just want to see them finished and installed.

Right now, it's looking like leaving well enough alone. I'm the only one around here who seems to be bothered by the lack of bevel on the inside. The only issue in this house is what color formula the dye should be. That's been going on for a couple of months!

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions. It's been very educational.

[keith micinski]

That was the right call.

[Mel Fulks]

You have made the right decision. My experience has been that when you ask most people about adding detail they are all for it and don't really have the ability to judge good overall design. The beveled outer edge with the square inner edge helps mitigate the thickness of overlay doors. And with a dye stain you will get an additional feature not seen enough. Going to go all out and predict the next owner might not tear them out!