Need miter saw recommendations, Hitachi or Festool?

[Hank Moreman]

I've been a carpenter for over 10 years now and have been on a steady course towards the finer end of the spectrum. I started out as a production trim guy and now we do the more complicated details/site built cabinetry. I find myself in a bit of a pickle, all three of my miter saws have gone down in the last couple weeks. I have always used Hitachi's 10" sliding compound saw and have never had a complaint. My business seems to be heading towards just building pieces in the shop and shipping them out. Is now the time to invest in a festool saw or stay with the hitachi? I'm willing to commit to not letting it leave the shop but is it 2 1/2 times the saw? I'm going to have to buy a saw Monday morning and I'm not sure what to do so any suggestions are welcome

[Chris Padilla]

I'm a diehard Festool fan but I am going to replace my trusty 12" DeWalt with a Bosch GCM12SD 12" sliding dual bevel miter saw...one of these days. Search for it on YouTube and check out some videos.

[George Bokros]

I recommend the Hitachi digital dual bevel sliding compound miter saw. It is one awesome saw. I have one and I am a hobbyist only but is top notch for cutting things like crown molding FLAT on the table. It is half the cost of Festool, paid under $600 for mine from CPO.

[Chris Rosenberger]

The main advantages of the Festool miter saw is it's light weight & very good dust collection. These two items are very important when doing onsite work, but not very important when when working in the shop. I use a Dewalt saw in the shop & a Festool onsite.

[peter gagliardi]

I have sampled the Festool, and it is decent, but it is NOT worth that kind of money! I have used the Hitachi, and thought it capable, but not for me. I only buy higher quality tools , and I bought the Bosch 12" dual bevel mentioned above. The Festool is almost crude next to it. It has far more capacity- it is a 12" saw, and less than half the money. It does take a little getting used to, with its various buttons and levers to work all the controls, that is the only real complaint I have so far. For $650.00 it's hard to go wrong.

[Jery Madigan]

Reviews for the Bosch are spotty over at Lumberjocks. I have never used one, but would like to move my saw occasionally - very heavy.

[Rich Riddle]

Of the two choices offered, Festool would prove the best. You might consider purchasing online to save yourself the high taxes. Many tool dealers ship the same day and free.

[Alan Lightstone]

Happy with the Festool Kapex.

[Casey kerner]

I have the Hitachi 12" non digital sliding compound miter and love it! I liked the dual slide option to keep it closer to the wall of I wanted and the dust collection work well but the bag is small. I thought about the kapex but couldn't justify triple the price. The adjustable laser is accurate and I find the ability to move it from left to right of the kerf handy. The included blade has also been ok but not great for finish cuts. If you have any other questions let me know!

[joseph f merz]

i do not own the festool .For the shop you will find that dust collection is a major time-saver in clean-up labor.
there laser works ,meaning less mistakes .As you get older this laser becomes really handy .Next noise -ever heard one ,did you notice it is much quieter ,wow ,at 54 my ears are really noticing those wining saws .
If your making money with your saw then the extra spent on the better tool is small . I have have many people tell me the cut is cleaner and some of those people should know what they are talking about .though this maynot be enough of an issue .Note -you will see a difference when you go from your 10" to the 12" .Not a lot but it is there .I happen to use all 12" saws ,just use excellent blades -140$ range .
You may find some of the features on different saws to be the selling point . Good luck ,try them out the best you can before choosing

[Mark Woodmark]

The Festool although a nice saw seems very overpriced. I have a Festool router. Very nice router, but I dont think it was worth the sky high price I paid for it. I dont know about the other miter saw, but I can tell you which one to stay away from, the Makita LS1216. I bought one last year at this time, it is an absolute piece of junk. Locks dont hold, fences are not parallel, arbor has considerable runout in it, horizontal angle stops are vague and inaccurate, and a couple of the plastic parts have already broken. Makita support could care less and are not very helpful. It has been in the shop for about 4 weeks now being repaired (it is waiting for Makita to send a part). If you want, I will sell it to you when I get it back.....If I ever get it back,

In the mean time I purchased a DeWalt 12 slider. Smooth as silk and accurate right out of the box. Stops are accurate, definate, and tight. Also people rave about the Bosch sliders. Say they slide smooth and are accurate, Also Bosch tilt controls are up front so you dont have to reach around the back of the saw

[Dan Bowman]

I recently upgraded from a Hitachi slider to a used Kapex. I simply couldn't keep the Hitachi dialed in - the fence kept slipping for some reason. The Festool is dead on every time, all the time. Curiously, it seems slightly underpowered so I have to be patient, but I'm happy with the change. When 89.9 degrees isn't good enough, I think Festool is better.

[Matt Meiser]

I upgraded from a well-rated Makita 12" slider to the Kapex last year. Some points

The smaller blade has less runout. That would be true comparing any good 12" and 10" saws.
The Kapex is easier to precisely set compared to the Makita.
The angle finder that comes with the Kapex is really cool. You can buy it separate.
The laser on the Kapex is way more useful. I never could get the Makita laser just right and the lines are finer on the Kapex and on both sides of the blade.
The Kapex uses an uniquely-sized blade. There are good 3rd party blades out there though. I'm running an Oshlun on mine right now.
The Kapex is compact. I gained considerable space in my shop due to the fact it requires little space behind the saw and didn't need a big hood to capture the dust.
The Kapex needs a vac, not a dust collector based on comments from those who've tried. It doesn't need a Festool vac and there's a Ridgid hose that fits too. A short dedicated hose gives better results. I have half a Festool hose I bought of another Festool user who has the other half for his.
The Kapex is very carry-able compared to the Makita.
I have mine on a Dewalt stand--mounted very easily.
I made some nice wings that mount easily to the saw and are supported by the Dewalt. Best miter stop system I've ever had and easiest to make.

But the big thing...
I installed the crown in my kitchen with the Makita. The weather was turning so I had the saw set up in the garage. I had to use the leaf blower to clean up despite hooking a vac up. There was sawdust everywhere behind the saw.

I bought the Kapex before I installed the rest of the trim. Even colder so I was again set up in the garage. Same vac. Took me 30s to clean up the mess under the saw when I was done.

[Andy Pratt]

In my reading of reviews and my experience the makita saws are the only ones other than festool where the laser is reliable across all depths of cut/thickness of stock. Some saws design the laser as part of the saw, some put it on as an add-on. All the "add-on" varieties (most brands) are pretty inferior and not reliable for trim/cabinet work (these saws give lasers their bad name). I find the makita laser to be dead on (1/64th or better, one side of cut) and useful enough to be a dealbreaker consideration for any say without it, and would recommend a makita as a comparable solution to the kapex.

Of course the kapex has more features but I have heard enough gripes about it to make me opt for the makita over it. I am picky about tools but don't want to pay 2.5x the going price and be unhappy with a bunch of little annoyances, I would rather pay 1x the going rate for some similiar annoyances. I own festool tools but only buy them when they are the "nearly perfect" tool in class. In the chop saw category festool still has some work to do and I will wait for some of the kapex issues to be resolved before considering it, I feel like there are better options out there right now, given the high price of the kapex vs its competition.

[jim gossage]

I recently bought a kapex and was also considering the bosch glider. I went with the kapex because it has the smallest footprint and that was a critical concern for me. I agree with almost all of the points raised by Matt Meiser. The saw was very accurate out of the box but not perfect. Bevel was perfect by miter was very slightly off, perhaps 0.1 degree, but enough that picture frame miters did not quite close. Dust collection is very good. Surprisingly, the table surface was not flat - off by 1/32 inch. So far it doesn't seem to be a problem, but only time will tell. My biggest gripe is the price. It probably is the best overall saw out there, but it is at best 20% better than the other top saws, like bosch. It really irks me that Festool charges twice as much for a mildly better product. I think they are a little on the greedy side. Also, the blades are a total rip off at about $180. The stock blade is just ok. I am delighted to hear that others make a blade that fits the saw.

[Jim Andrew]

The 12" Hitachi is on sale at Menards right now for 399.

[Bill Wyko]

I was able to acquire a used Kapex that didn't work, (got 4 blades too) turned out it was just brushes which were easily replace. That being said, for it to have had enough use to go through a set of brushes and work as perfectly as it does, really speaks well to its quality. My only small complaint is, I like the handle on my Dewalt 12" SCMS better. The vertical handle can be tiresome when making dozens of cuts.

[mreza Salav]

I recently got the 12" Milwaukee slider, very nice saw. The other contender I was considering was the Bosch glide version. Milwaukee has digital miter setup and the range of angles is very wide, easy to setup, dust collection is fairly good (better than most), the only downside is it is big and heavy.

[Jamie Buxton]

I have a Hitachi compound miter saw. The one thing is does very well is cutting the compound angles for installing crown molding. I wouldn't think of tackling a crown job without it. However, I don't use it in the shop. I used to have a place for it in the shop, but found that most everything in the shop can be done better with a cabinet saw. Shop space is so tight that tools really have to earn their space. So the miter saw now lives in the storage unit along with the other housebuilding tools -- the portable table saw, the sawsall, the SDS drill, the hole hawg, and the like. Those only come out for on-site work.

[Sam Beagle]

I have both saws, and I 100% love the kapex, the hitachi is a good saw, but no where comparable to the festool. There should not even be a discussion among the 2 saws, the hitachi does not belong in the same sentence as festool.

[Mac McQuinn]

I've had the older 8-1/2" Hitachi and the 10" slide compound although that was 20 & 16 years ago. At that time I felt Hitachi was very well thought out and the quality was better than most. My biggest concern at the time was weight for transporting and the Hitachi really excelled in that respect. The dust collection was the only feature I felt was less than perfect. With that said, I'm not too impressed with their present offerings. I've never used the Festool although would look long and hard at anything that promotes good dust collection, especially if the tool is going to be stationary in your shop.
Mac

[Justin Ludwig]

I used the Hitachi 12" and Dewalt 12" side by side numerous times on site. I prefer the Dewalt. The light shadow is always accurate for fine cuts. I can measure every piece of crown and base for a room, cut them all at the saw in one trip, and install without a problem. The Hitachi laser is a joke IMO. As for a Kapex? It better eat dust and spit gold nuggets for $1200+. That's the cost of ANY good SCMS, a vacuum, a saw hood, and a stand. I guarantee you I can make just as much money with a saw that's 1/2 the cost of the Kapex.

[Albert Lee]

I have considered Festool Kapex, I endup with an Omga.

with the amount of money you pay for a Kapex, you can pay a little more to get an Omga. the dust extraction on an Omga is close to 4"

The Omga saw is designed as a shop saw only though, unless you dont mind carrying cast iron mitre saw around with you...

[Peter Quinn]

I used the Kapex extensively at my last job and was honestly not particularly impressed. It is loaded with gimics, the rack and pinion bevel adjust is one I actually found handy, but not worth the cost of admission. In general I found the soft start/trigger/handle mechanism more annoying than words. The rest of the package? No more accurate IME than the average SCMS. Smaller blade less deflection? In theory, but in practice, not so much. That saw has as much flex in the head as any SCMS, maybe a bit more than some. It almost felt like even with a fresh blade that little blade was more likely to follow the grain on a long miter in hard wood like white oak where a bigger blade had less teeth in the wood at a give time. I've used hitachi's at a few jobs, am using one now, its a good basic saw, think they show up a lot because they are cheap, tough and accurate.

I like festool products and am generally impressed with the build quality. But before you buy a kapex give it a trial run some where, your impressions may be different from mine, I'd pass on that one. I have a makita that cuts just as accurately at less than half the cost. The laser? Seriously? The finest laser I've seen is at least 5X the thickness of the gap I can accept when fitting panel molding, I've only ever used the laser on any saw for setting the miter to a scribed angle or rough cutting blocking. For real precision its an auxiliary fence, a knife mark, a few test cuts. In fact in the shop the SCMS is general the last place I go for accuracy, to me its more of a carpenters tool than a cabinet makers. I'd love to try an OMGA. Pair that with a tiger stop and you have a great way to cut FF parts. The apex does have excellent dust control, nice feature for site work in finished space, but all that dust shroud sure grabs the points for long miters real easily. Had to cut mitered herringbone t&g with it once...nearly went made...had to make some "shop mods" to that well though out German plan!

[Victor Robinson]

Like many Festool products, the Kapex pushes the limit on price and seems overpriced for what it is. And like other Festools, if you need one or more of the features that is particularly unique to the Festool, you might be willing to pay that price.

In the case of the Kapex, the features that might be used to justify its exorbitant price are:
1) portability
2) dust collection
3) noise level
4) rail-forward design

If you do on-site work, you'll probably appreciate items 1 and 2 more than the average shop-based user. Or, if your shop is in a home where you don't want to disturb your family or the neighbors, you might appreciate the relatively low noise levels (approx. 85dbA) and smooth growling motor. Some folks don't have enough room for a slider's backward-moving rails.

If none of those unique features particularly intrigue you or are requirements for a miter saw, you're paying 2-3x more for a saw that you can get for much cheaper. If you need reliability from your saw, you might be better served by 2 or 3 of another brand instead of one Kapex.

[Justin Ludwig]

The laser? Seriously? The finest laser I've seen is at least 5X the thickness of the gap I can accept when fitting panel molding, I've only ever used the laser on any saw for setting the miter to a scribed angle or rough cutting blocking. For real precision its an auxiliary fence, a knife mark, a few test cuts.

That's why I like the Dewalt. The light shines down the blade and creates a shadow. Shadows don't lie and make a finer line that any marking tool created. Of course, you have to line the shadow up with your "mark", but that's the easy part. The time I spent at the saw recutting trim pieces or double cutting was greatly reduced with the Dewalt's light. I used it in my shop for years cutting face frames and door parts until I finally found an OMGA RN-450 at auction. It was just as accurate, just not near as fast for shop work like the OMGA.

[John TenEyck]

I'm really glad I read this thread. I always thought Festool tools were so superior that people happily paid twice the price of the nearest competitive tool to get it. After reading some of the comments hear, I wonder why anyone would buy one. I'm sure it's personal opinion, but for 2X the price I thought I would be reading a lot more glowing comments. As for me, I use a Bosch 12" DCMS when I work at a jobsite and really like it except it weighs a ton. But in the shop I use an old Dewalt RAS which is superior in just about every way to a SCMS. There's really no comparison.

John

[Don Huffer]

I used the Hitachi 12" and Dewalt 12" side by side numerous times on site. I prefer the Dewalt. The light shadow is always accurate for fine cuts. I can measure every piece of crown and base for a room, cut them all at the saw in one trip, and install without a problem. The Hitachi laser is a joke IMO. As for a Kapex? It better eat dust and spit gold nuggets for $1200+. That's the cost of ANY good SCMS, a vacuum, a saw hood, and a stand. I guarantee you I can make just as much money with a saw that's 1/2 the cost of the Kapex.

I agree. I see the DeWalt on a lot of job sites. I have the DeWalt in my shop. I didn't need it but I bought it anyway. Now I remember why I haven't had one for so long.

Don

[Don Huffer]

I'm really glad I read this thread. I always thought Festool tools were so superior that people happily paid twice the price of the nearest competitive tool to get it. After reading some of the comments hear, I wonder why anyone would buy one. I'm sure it's personal opinion, but for 2X the price I thought I would be reading a lot more glowing comments. As for me, I use a Bosch 12" DCMS when I work at a jobsite and really like it except it weighs a ton. But in the shop I use an old Dewalt RAS which is superior in just about every way to a SCMS. There's really no comparison.

John

I'm puzzled why people don't take into account that Fe$tool prices have other costs associated with the product that don't have anything to do with manufacturing the tools.

Don

[Sam Murdoch]

I'm really glad I read this thread. I always thought Festool tools were so superior that people happily paid twice the price of the nearest competitive tool to get it. After reading some of the comments hear, I wonder why anyone would buy one. I'm sure it's personal opinion, but for 2X the price I thought I would be reading a lot more glowing comments. As for me, I use a Bosch 12" DCMS when I work at a jobsite and really like it except it weighs a ton. But in the shop I use an old Dewalt RAS which is superior in just about every way to a SCMS. There's really no comparison.

John

But we are talking about the Kapex here and in that regard this particular Festool does not so far exceed its competitors to warrant the 2X cost. Other Festools are worth every extra dollar. I like the Makita but Matt Meiser makes some valid points. Worth the extra $$s for the Festool? - You decide.

[John TenEyck]

I'm puzzled why people don't take into account that Fe$tool prices have other costs associated with the product that don't have anything to do with manufacturing the tools.

Don

Such as? And who cares? Seriously, I don't care what someone's costs are, only if the performance and quality of their product is worth the price.

John

[Frank Martin]

But we are talking about the Kapex here and in that regard this particular Festool does not so far exceed its competitors to warrant the X2 cost. Other Festools are worth every extra dollar. I like the Makita but Matt Meiser makes some valid points. Worth the extra $$s for the Festool? - You decide.

In my opinion there is another Festool that is not worth the price compared to competition. It is the large Rotex sander. The Bosch 1250 is as good as Festool. I owned Bosch before and then the Festool thinking I was upgrading. To me there is negligible difference with Festool double the price.

[Don Huffer]

Such as? And who cares? Seriously, I don't care what someone's costs are, only if the performance and quality of their product is worth the price.

John

Why wouldn't you care?

Al

[John TenEyck]

Why wouldn't you care?

Al

I don't care if a company has costs unassociated with manufacturing that they add to the price of their products. I only care about the quality and price of the tool itself. You wouldn't pay your dentist double other dentists in your area just because of insurance costs or the new boat he just bought, would you? Or am I missing your point?

John

[Prashun Patel]

"and have never had a complaint..."

Buy the Hitachi and use the savings to put toward a Domino....

[Matt Meiser]

I'm puzzled why people don't take into account that Fe$tool prices have other costs associated with the product that don't have anything to do with manufacturing the tools.

Don

There are companies that don't roll non-manufacturing costs into their product pricing? How do these companies pay those costs?

[Peter Quinn]

I'm really glad I read this thread. I always thought Festool tools were so superior that people happily paid twice the price of the nearest competitive tool to get it. After reading some of the comments hear, I wonder why anyone would buy one. I'm sure it's personal opinion, but for 2X the price I thought I would be reading a lot more glowing comments. As for me, I use a Bosch 12" DCMS when I work at a jobsite and really like it except it weighs a ton. But in the shop I use an old Dewalt RAS which is superior in just about every way to a SCMS. There's really no comparison.

John

I've had numerous conversations with a few fellow wood workers and carpenters on the subject, and opinions are mixed on the kapex, but certainly not warm and glowing universally. Everybody loves the domino and track saw, don't know any that regret buying those, the drills are pricey but really nice if you have the $$$ for that luxury, or use one so much the performance is not a luxury. The jig saws are decent, though that soft start thing they can keep, the sanders are just the best IMO well beyond any other electrics not including mirka, routers get high marks generally but they are expensive. But that kapex is the one tool I've heard of guys buying then getting rid of and going back to something else. Maybe expectations are just too high? I'm not saying its price is not in line with their costs plus profit, just that for me its performance delivers no value relative to its price. I do love that angle finder, but you can buy a good one for $45, though it wont tuck neatly into the base. My main point is/was that purchase is to me not a no brainer, potential buyers should go look at it and try it to see if it suits them. Different people like different things in a saw, its a real feel thing, almost like a musical instrument, you sort of play the chop box, your technique can steer it toward accuracy or not more than many other cutting tools. So get one you are comfortable with, develop a relationship with it and enjoy.

[Albert Lee]

just to add to the discussion, the dealer who I bought my Domino and my woodworking supplies from steered me away from Kapex when I was considering a SCMS or a Mitre saw with large blade to cut 6 x 1 boards, he didnt tell me in the face dont buy Kapex but the message between the lines is that the Kapex is not as "nice" as other tools from Festool such as the Domino or its sander range, its pricey but I am not sure if the price tag has anything to do with accuracy, tools are only as accurate as the operator.

[Chad Robbins]

Hitachi all the way

[Erik Christensen]

have the kapex and would buy again

[joseph f merz]

i do not own the festool .For the shop you will find that dust collection is a major time-saver in clean-up labor.
there laser works ,meaning less mistakes .As you get older this laser becomes really handy .Next noise -ever heard one ,did you notice it is much quieter ,wow ,at 54 my ears are really noticing those wining saws .
If your making money with your saw then the extra spent on the better tool is small . I have have many people tell me the cut is cleaner and some of those people should know what they are talking about .though this maynot be enough of an issue .Note -you will see a difference when you go from your 10" to the 12" .Not a lot but it is there .I happen to use all 12" saws ,just use excellent blades -140$ range .
You may find some of the features on different saws to be the selling point . Good luck ,try them out the best you can before choosing

ahh -guess i was real tired that evening i posted this .I meant to say "I do own a kapex" .So did not notice wether the OP replied with more info .wondering what you chose ,what you were looking for,what you will use it for .if your just general cutting sometimes maybe a 1400$ saw is to much . I like the wider /past 45 degree miter angle that most saws offer now .I still cannot find the accuracy difference in the kapex vsr my othersaws to be a game changer .though the kapex is easier and faster to use in many cases .it has been a good business purchase

[Scott Vigder]

I've had the Hitachi for just over a year, bought it when I had to remodel a rental unit. It is heavy. If I had to lug it from job site to job site, I'd consider something else. It's resided in my shop on the heavy-duty DeWalt stand for the last 11 months. I built a nice semi-circle shroud for dust collection that works perfectly. The laser line, once properly adjusted, is dead-on accurate and I have not had to re-adjust it for several months. Also, Lowe's had it on super-special for $450 which I felt was highway robbery! You get used to the green after a while.