4 wheel or 3 wheel stock feeder

[Mark Woodmark]

Should I go with a 4 wheel or 3 wheel stock feeder for my shaper? What are the advantages of the 4th wheels?

[David Kumm]

What size shaper? Four wheel is nice so two wheels are on each side of the cut but you need some size and mass to handle it. Dave

[Mark Woodmark]

Powermatic model 27

[Mike Heidrick]

Either will work just fine on a model 27. I have had both on a 5hp delta and HUGE T1002S. Not a discernable difference on either machine.

[Stephen Cherry]

I vote for the 4 wheeler also, due to the extra wheel. 3 wheels are fine also though, especially with the sticky rollers. One advantage of the 4th wheel is if you want to switch between climb cutting and normal cutting- all it would involve is adjusting the toe in slightly.

If I could choose, I would think about 4 wheel, 4 speed, three phase, with an el cheapo vfd for variable speed. I think for 1 hp, you can even get a drive to run off of 120v and produce a 220 v three phase output.

[Mike Heidrick]

But if you have 220V to the machine power the VFD off the same circuit. I put a 220V out right on my machine for the feeders. If you go 3 phase plug your VFD into it.

[Rick Lizek]

Should I go with a 4 wheel or 3 wheel stock feeder for my shaper? What are the advantages of the 4th wheels?
http://wmdusa.com/products.html
I'll take a three wheel over a four wheel. More flexible, lighter, less cost and one less wheel you have to replace. Typically stock wheels are fair. Wester roller makes good replacements and belted feed ones. You can get a VFD for a little over $100 from factorymation that will power a 1 hp 3 ph motor off 120 volt single phase. Maggi feeders are a top brand and are often rebranded. 1 hp is a common size and I never found a 3 wheel to do less than a 4 wheel in 40 years.

[Peter Quinn]

It depends on what you are doing. For doors with small parts the distance between centers is tighter on the four wheel than on the 3 wheel, And you can get two wheels on each side of the cutter which adds control, so sticking short rails is often easier IME, but a 3 wheel with a belt conversion could solve that problem. When the parts are long/ wide/ thick, it's largely irrelevant IMO, and the extra weight and size of the 4 wheel becomes an issue, more size to work around when setting up. I have a four wheel and a few three wheel, i wouldn't want to move the four wheel around, one of the three wheel feeders moves from shaper to saw rapidly as required. So consider these factors and your needs. They make dedicated track feeders too, which I hear are a step up from the conversion if small parts are in your plan, but they are also a bit more expensive.

[Mark Woodmark]

Think I have narrowed this down some. I am going with a Steff Maggi either 3 roller or 4 roller wired 115volt. Cant decide between the two but 115v is definate. I dont know if I need the fourth roller or not and the three roller one would be lighter and smaller. I mostly do long edge work and end grain work on wide boards in anything from 4/4 stock to 8/4 stock in any type domestic or exotic hardwood on my Powermatic model 27 shaper. Here are the feeders I am looking at and a link:
Steff 2034
Steff 2038
Steff 2044
Steff 2048
Steff VarioFeed

http://www.machinetoolsjwk.com/steff%20power%20feeders.html

Cant decide between 4-speed, 8-speed or variable speed. Also am thinking about polyurethane rollers. Any additional input would be great and thanks in advance.

[Jeff Monson]

but a 3 wheel with a belt conversion could solve that problem

So, can any 3 wheel feeder be converted to a belt? If so what source do you use for the conversion parts.

[Jordan Lane]

Rick

would you buy the 8 speed industrial or the vario speed 3 wheeler?

[peter gagliardi]

I have only 4 wheel feeders, and that is all I would use. 3 wheel is a compromise, 2 in front, or 2 in back? Less positive feeding and holding as well- 4 wheels are definitely, at least 25 percent better than 3 wheels. I started with a pm 27 with a 2048, sold the pm and still have the 2048, with original wheels from 1990's . Either will work, but 4 is better than 3. And, you still have a choice, but soon you won't. 4 wheels can do anything 3 wheels can, but the opposite cannot be said. Did I mention, I like 4 wheels!!

[David Kumm]

So, can any 3 wheel feeder be converted to a belt? If so what source do you use for the conversion parts.

Western Roller sells conversion kits for most feeders. Steff and Comatic are nearly 100% of the market now. I've heard mixed reviews but have no actual knowledge. I'm partial to Steff 2048 now that Univer is gone but don't run off 115. Eight speeds is really four as I never bother to change the gears. My favorite four are plenty though in combination with the shaper speeds. Dave

[J.R. Rutter]

So, can any 3 wheel feeder be converted to a belt? If so what source do you use for the conversion parts.

Two sources that I know of:
http://www.weaver-sales.com/power-feeders.htm
http://www.westernroller.com/super-feed.html

[Mark Woodmark]

Peter, I didnt notice whether you like 4 wheels or 3?....HA!.....Did you find the 4 wheel got in the way on the PM 27 at times due to its larger size? Also people have mentioned I will have to put weight in the base of the shaper or the power feeder will tip it over when it is swung out of the way. Is this true with the PM27? I just cant see it doing this. Based off what David posted, it seems I dont need variable speed just either 4 speed or 8 speed. Which would you or anyone else out there recommend?

[peter gagliardi]

I had the pm 27 s which is the larger table version. No, it won't tip it over, and didn't get in the way. I have the eight speed version, but for hobby use, 4 is probably all you will use. Anything in the speed range of 12-36' per minute is all you will need.

[ian maybury]

No idea what the reality is - and would be interested to hear views - but it seems like a lot depends on whether or not the plan is to buy one or ultimately more feeders.

If the plan is just one and a second is unlikely to be on the agenda then the one you buy should presumably be above all else versatile - presuming this is possible. As in do an acceptable job on almost all jobs rather than a great one on one.

Less common tasks might include working in the vertical with the feeder tilted, vertical curve cutting, and use on other machines like a saw or a bandsaw. Four wheels sounds good, but not so good if they get in the way in other situations. The belt kit might be preferable in this case?

ian.

[Mark Woodmark]

Ian and Peter, Thanks. I neglected to mention I plan on leaving this on my shaper and only plan on purchasing one feeder. The only other tool I can see this being an advantage on would be a table saw and mine is a Felder with the sliding table. It will be used for more than hobby use. As with Peters reasoning for the 4 wheel, I may opt for the 8 speed

[Daniel Thompson]

I used to use a Steff 2033 3 wheel on a Delta HD shaper and there were times when having a 4th wheel would have been a help. When I bought a Felder Profil 45 I intended to keep the 2033 but it turned out that I couldn't get a long enough arm to make it work. I bought a 2048 and don't have any regrets. It is big and heavy and I wouldn't want to move it from one machine to another but I have no regrets and prefer it to the old one. It cost isn't a major issue, I would go with the 2048.

[Kevin Jenness]

3wheels good, 4 wheels better. More positive feed, less sniping, very little more weight. No need for a vfd on the feeders I have used. The Steff feeder I work with daily has a hi/lo gear control and two speed electrical control that gives plenty of options. My 3 wheel Powermatic (Comatic) works fine, but I would go for a 4 roll machine if buying new again.

[Ryan Mooney]

Going through a similar decision process..

It appears that the 8 speed feeders have a lower low end speed which ?seems? like a good idea? Does having the 6fpm option offer major advantages over 13fpm or is 13fpm sufficiently slow for any normal use?

[Stephen Cherry]

I have an 8 speed, as well as a 4 speed. to use all of the speeds, you would need to swap the gears, and I'd rather just use the gear shift and the speed switch. So, for practical purposes, the 8 speed really has 4 easily changed gears, and 4 more after messing with the gears. I just keep mine on the low range of the gears. (similarly, the 4 speed has 2 speeds, plus two more with a gear change).

In the low gear configuration, the lowest speed is pretty slow. I don't know that I have used it. (I guess I subscribe to the "keep it moving" school.) So, the advantage of the 8 speed is that it gives you 4 easily adjusted speeds, instead of only two. If I really wanted to optimize a process, I think that I'd rather have a vfd running the feeder, rather than the vario speed adjustment. But, as Kevin said, the 8 speed has enough options for just about anything.

[Jeff Duncan]

I've had several shapers and several feeders including the Powermatic 27 which I ran a 4 wheeler on and it fits just fine. I've heard about shapers being tippy with a large feeder on them but the Powermatic is heavy enough that I never had any such issues. In reality there are very few, if any, good arguments against a 4 wheeler. And guys have already given you the arguments for, so I won't rehash those. I will say that if your doing mostly smaller stuff like cabinet doors and smaller trims a 3 wheeler can and will do everything you need it to. Two wheels on the infeed side and one on the out just to keep things moving. Where I appreciate the 4 wheeler the most is on larger, longer parts where the extra hold is good to have. Like passage door parts and 14'+ lengths of molding.

As for the belt kits I'm not sure how useful they are for your everyday type of work. Granted there are situations where they must be a valuable asset to have. I got one feeder a few years ago that came with the belt kit. I've thought about selling it a couple times since I've never used it, but it doesn't cost me anything to keep it and I just know there will be that one job where I'm glad I have it.

Now as far as speeds my feeling is you can never have too many. My favorite feeder for versatility is my Univer which has variable speed and also has the motor configured differently so it's much easier to flip to a vertical feed. I would think that 6fpm is going to be too slow for most jobs though, but can't be a bad thing to have. One thing to remember is that you don't want to feed "too" slow. If your feeding too slowly your building up heat in your knives which is going to lead to premature dulling. Ideally you want to feed as fast as possible without compromising quality of cut.

good luck,
JeffD

[Kevin Woodhead]

Just an FYI for those that are following this thread. I bought a Steff Vario3 new in the box off of ebay last week for 825 dollars. The seller has more. If having a dial-on-the-fly variable speed is valuable to your needs, this is an excellent deal on an excellent feeder.

[Mark Woodmark]

Thanks to all. After some calling around the country, it appears Maggi engineering no longer makes 1HP feeders for 115v. One salesperson told me the Italians just couldnt understand 115 volts and had problems with it. Since I cannot run two 220v tools at one time (dont ask) the Steff is out as are most other 1HP feeders. I purchased the Powermatic PF-41. It is only 4 speed but has 4 wheels and is rated 1HP. Not sure how many amps it pulls

[Peter Quinn]

If I were buying just one to do everything that would live on one machine, I'd get the 4 wheel. Four or eight speeds? Doesn't matter much to me, I guess 8 for the small additional cost, though I rarely need to dial in a speed range that tightly. On a few rare occasions I've wished I could go "just a little faster" but not as fast as the next speed up that was available, usually to eliminate some burning in a difficult species. The vario speed would be great for versatility, though I seem to recall it is only available in 3 phase? Not sure there, but thats my recollection. I use PM27's daily at work, 3 wheel feeders are no issue, I doubt you would have any issue with a 4 wheel being tippy. You might not want to extend the arm all the way out and rock it back in forth, but that never really happens in use, you only need to swing the arm far enough to get around the fence. Do I like 3 wheel or four better? No, not really. 3 is fine for almost everything, and they really are quite a bit smaller and easier to manipulate. But like Jeff mentioned, when you are doing the largest work, the extra mass of the bigger feeder is an asset. And oddly for the smallest work the wheel spacing is handy.

[Mel Fulks]

I like the bigger speed range if you do a lot of different types of jobs .We needed to make a large number of bevel slat shutters for a restoration job where the old slats were more vertical than 45 degrees. Management thought the moulder would not be able to put the points on without breaking. We ran them S4S on moulder then backed fenced on shaper to cut the bevels,climb cutting . Used the 90 something feet per minute speed. Would have been pretty time consuming at a lower speed with thousands of feet needing to go through twice.

[Jeff Duncan]

Well you got your machine already and I'm sure you will be happy with it. There's one thing just as a "good to know" item for future reference. You say you can only run one machine on 220v, but I'm guessing that may not be quite true. I'll hazard a guess that you only have a single 220 volt outlet in your shop? If so as long as you have it fused and wired correctly you can run both the feeder and shaper off the same line. Many shops do this even with plenty of power. You run one line to a electrical box placed on the machine, and then have both feeder and shaper wired to the box.

As Peter said 4 speeds is not a deal breaker at all. Is it handy to have more?....yup! But unless your in a production shop trying to get work out the door it's unlikely to be a problem. I also run into the same problem on my 4 wheeler and it has 8 speeds. You find you want to go just a bit faster but the next step up is a little too fast. That's one thing that's great about the variable speed machines, you can crank it up just a little at a time until you hit that perfect feed rate.

I have to say I've never run my feeder at 90 ft. per. minute....that must seem like stuff is flying out of the machine! That's what I call moving stuff along;)

JeffD

[peter gagliardi]

I realize now, that I misspoke up thread. I have a Steff 2044 which is only a 4 speed machine! I have only very rarely thought I needed an in between speed from what I have. I have a production shop, and it meets my needs.
Peter

[Rick Fisher]

I have a 4 wheel Felder and a 3 wheel.. To me its more about the size of the shaper, or host tool .. Stickier wheels on a 3 wheel will grab better than hard wheels on a 4 wheeler.. if you have the space, 4 is better but hardly needed.

[ian maybury]

Thanks guys, that's been educational as i'm sniffing about the topic too.

While used feeders seems to come up pretty frequently in the US, they are damn difficult to buy over here - especially if you were to get a little picky and start looking for e.g. four wheels and variable speed.

Which tends to mean full bore dealer prices....

ian