Is there a cheap MFT out there?

[Wade Lippman]

Now that a number of companies have copied Festool's tracksaw, has anyone copied the MFT?
It is a great tool, but $625 is a lot of money.

[Victor Robinson]

I haven't seen one. The cheap alternative to buying one is to try to make it yourself - but it's sort of a pain if you want to make one that works exactly like Festool's and with all the Festool accessories.

There are CNC templates available out there for the top. The frame can be made from 80/20 extrusions.

I'd be curious to hear how much money people actually save by making their own MFT that has the same clamping and guide rail functionality, and is possibly compatible with Festool's clamps and accessories (which require 20mm holes and a top no thicker than 3/4").

Most who own the MFT say it's one of their top Festools...I'm heavily invested in Festool but personally haven't been able to justify the MFT.

[Johannes Becker]

If you just want to do square cross cutting, you can buy an MFT replacement top and work with qwas dogs to make use of the predcise square pattern. The MFT feels like a lot of money to fork out for a collapsible table, but I enjoy working with it. However, I looked long and hard into making my own version. That is the route I would have gone. It may work for other track saws too.

[Russell Sansom]

This question has been on my mind this last month. Thinking of ditching the TS altogether and thinking about investing some serious time and effort into some kind of MFT. I haven't actually seen one up close. Can somebody tell me in 50 words or less, what the table "does?" Hope this question isn't terribly out of line, but I have time, lumber, and the ability to design tables, so it might be a worthy enterprise.
thanks
russ

[larry senen]

what's an MFT

[johnny means]

what's an MFT

Multi Function Table:rolleyes:

[Ralph Okonieski]

As Victor indicated, the MFT is one of my most useful tools. I thought long and hard about buying it but decided to in the end.

For me, It enabled me to make flat panels. In combination with the track saw, I was also able to get square panels and components. It makes a nice large flat surface that I use when finishing (after covering the top with plastic sheeting). It holds items nicely when using the router. I prefer to cut my dados with a router for that reason. It is the most frequently used tool and one I would not wish to do without.

I should add that my shop is very small (<180 sq ft) so it has become a comfortable place to work from. I've adjusted my process around the MFT. For me, it was a good decision.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

My reading of the posts on the big Festool group is that most people who tried to build their own MFT - with most of the functionality - end up spending just as much doing so, and I believe that's without their time being figured in. There's a lot of discussions out there about building your own MFT/3. Do a search for "MFTC Festool plans", and you'll see what I think is pretty much the state-of-the art for DIY MFT alternatives. Also search for "Ron Paulk Ultimate Work Bench" to see another popular design. Both guys sell plans for these tables/benches, and both are active members in the Festool community.

As for the MFT/3 itself: The holes are more precisely located than most of us could do - though whether or not that is necessary, is another question. Off-hand, I can't think of a how I would use the precise spacing - what's really important is that the lines of holes are parallel or at right-angles to each other, and the Festool holes are. That's what allows the system to cut straight and square panels.

If you want to save money, and perhaps even if you don't need to, I might recommend you look at buying the MFT/3 Basic. That's the one without the extra doo-dads like angle unit. Frankly, with the advent of Qwas dogs and rail dogs (and the copies of same), they're mostly useless - I know I haven't pulled any of my accessories out in forever. Having said that, you will need a guide rail (unless you have a rail from another track saw), and after accounting for the cost of the guide rail, the Full MFT/3 is only a few dollars more than the Basic. Note that the Makita guide rails are (mostly?) compatible with Festool - so if you have a Makita saw and rail, I'd probably recommend just the Basic MFT/3. Not sure about Dewalt's saw or the rest of the Makita stuff.

I definitely wouldn't buy the FS/SYS.

If I had to do it all over again - and needed to save my pennies, I'd buy a Basic and some dogs. Whatever you do, buy some dogs designed for the MFT/3 AND some rail dogs. They work way faster and more accurately for the vast majority of operations most of us might have to do. IMO, Steve Qwas totally changed the way most people will work with their MFTs. Lee Valley also just released a cool set of MFT dogs and clamping accessories in a nice box, but IIRC there are no rail dogs.

And once you're freed from the accessories, then the side extrusions become far less important - whereas they're crucial for the full range of operations with the "full" MFT/3 set. With just the Basic set, you can still use the side extrusions for general clamping, but you could lay regular t-track or Kreg clamp track on the side of a bench and do the same thing.

So at the heart of it, what the MFT gives you is a work surface with holes that are precisely arranged as to spacing and geometry. As far as I am concerned, if you can get the latter part right, you get most of the functionality. I'm at the point where I'm tired of spending my shop time building things for my shop, so I'd still probably buy.

[Chris Padilla]

The KEY to the MFT is the precision spacing and arrangement of the holes in the top. The top is carefully CNC machined to be very precise. Someone mentioned QWAS and the Qwas dogs and Qwas rails. Combine these two excellent (albeit spendy) tools and you have one helluva precise, square, parallel surface to reference off of to build your projects. I have TWO MFT1080: one I bought new 9 years ago and another I picked up off of Craigslist for $300 a few years later. I like the ease with which it is to move around and put away.

Take a look at these videos and decide for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXCatsDERM0 (Overview of the MFT1080)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKHNEBpKnSI (Part 2, goes more into mods and Qwas)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipJQlcl3cHk (Part 3, more Qwas stuff)

[Kelly Colin Mark]

The KEY to the MFT is the precision spacing and arrangement of the holes in the top
Chris,

I agree that the arrangement is key - I just don't see the importance of the particular spacing. As long as the lines of holes are parallel and at right angles to the columns of holes, I don't think the precise spacing is important. When is it ever important that one dog hole is some increment of 96mm from the next, in this context (except for maybe using the holes to cut 45s)?

If the holes were centered 90 or 100mm apart, what would change about the way one uses the system ? If nothing, I think recognition of this makes the task of possibly building one's own MFT much easier. If something, I'd be happy to be enlightened.

Further, you could still make square cuts with rail dogs and dogs if the spacing between rows and columns of holes *varied* between rows and columns, as long as rows were perpendicular to columns. You couldn't cut 45s, but could do everything else.

[Victor Robinson]

Chris,

I agree that the arrangement is key - I just don't see the importance of the particular spacing. As long as the lines of holes are parallel and at right angles to the columns of holes, I don't think the precise spacing is important. When is it ever important that one dog hole is some increment of 96mm from the next, in this context (except for maybe using the holes to cut 45s)?

If the holes were centered 90 or 100mm apart, what would change about the way one uses the system ? If nothing, I think recognition of this makes the task of possibly building one's own MFT much easier. If something, I'd be happy to be enlightened.

Further, you could still make square cuts with rail dogs and dogs if the spacing between rows and columns of holes *varied* between rows and columns, as long as rows were perpendicular to columns. You couldn't cut 45s, but could do everything else.

One example of the spacing being important (or planned) is that the Kapex can be secured on the MFT grid (its feet fit into the holes). I'm not sure if there are other such uses of the 96mm grid pattern, but that's one that comes to mind. Not that that by itself is a big deal...

By the way, spacing at 96mm is super easy if you also happen to use Festool's LR32 system.

[Russell Sansom]

Awesome response for me. A+ on the essays with bibliographies. I haven't tried making a shelf pin template on my smallish vertical mill with no digital readout. It would probably be more accurate than my last one that was done with the most precise possible manual layout and a drill press. But I would guess it still wouldn't touch a CNC-drilled layout.

( BTW, I was just thinking about this yesterday. Remember how difficult blue book exams could be in college sometimes? Look how enjoyable and easy they are now in our adulthood! )
Thanks,
Russ

[Kelly Colin Mark]

I just remembered that (I believe) one can order replacement MFT/3 tops. So if one wanted the precision-spaced holes but didn't want to have it CNC'ed themself, they should be purchasable from a Festool dealer.

[John Sanford]

Chris,

I agree that the arrangement is key - I just don't see the importance of the particular spacing. As long as the lines of holes are parallel and at right angles to the columns of holes, I don't think the precise spacing is important. When is it ever important that one dog hole is some increment of 96mm from the next, in this context (except for maybe using the holes to cut 45s)?96mm is a multiple of 32mm, ergo, working within the 32mm Euro cabinetry standard is simplified. Would this be critical? Dunno.

[Keith Pleas]

I'm working up to doing an MFS (Multi Function Slab (http://www.multifunctionslab.com/)). There's a longish discussion of this on the FOG.

I have a quote from a local (Seattle) CNC shop for $75 for the slab, and they can source the Lightweight MDF sheet for $58.

And I have a couple of the (surprisingly expensive but highly regarded) 36" metal Storehorses in-coming.

There's one challenge with a longish span of MDF / Lightweight MDF, and that is sag. I have purchased a 100m roll of fiberglass rodding and plan to practice on some built-in shelving that has some sag first.

The last remaining issue is how to secure the MFS to the Storehorses...

[Keith Hankins]

I have the mft/3 and love it. It's one of my fav go to's. The sides are 80/20. If you go over to the FOG and search there you will find many a wild copies, and IMO some improved versions. Start there. I bought mine years ago, and don't regret it.

[glenn bradley]

Have a member with a CnC make one for you?

[Kevin Wolfe]

I bought a replacement MFT top and precision dogs. All in it was about $130. I built my own rolling stand for it that has an addition section for a future router insert. The only thing it does do as well as the MFT is travel. The MFT is very portable

[James Zhu]

I have the MFT/3 table, it is expensive, cannot justify the cost to buy second one. For all the accessories, I agree only the guide rail is useful, you need to use the rail dogs to make square cuts. I found precision dogs (http://precisiondogs.us/products/precision-bench-dogs) is little cheaper than Qwas dogs.

After seeing this young guy's slick method to make the MFT top using LR32, I am going to make my own MFT/3 top and table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4jAqE6OZgk

Also, this Bosch 20mm euro hinge boring bit (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-T15020-Boring-Carbide-European/dp/B000AS327K) is only half the price of the Festool 491072 euro hinge boring 20 mm bit.

[Jim Dwight]

I think the Paulk setup is the best alternative I've seen, other than perhaps getting a MFT replacement top for your own stand or bench. You can bore the holes using a plunge router on a guiderail ensuring that they line up in one direction but have to depend on marking or spacer blocks to line things up the other way. This seems accurate enough for clamping and lots of other things but not for using the holes to determine angles. Ron Paulk also has a crosscut setup that is similar to the Festool in function but made of plywood scraps so it's a whole lot cheaper. The Paulk setup has the desirable attribute of a two layer top with space in-between for tool storage. He made it for portability but I don't see why the same sort of top arrangement wouldn't work well in my shop. I plan a 3x6 rolling workbench with storage drawers and a Paulk style top complete with crosscut setup. This will store better than Ron's 4x8 setup and still allow me to cut up sheets of plywood. I'm a ways away from building it but hopefully will get other stuff done and do it yet this year.


I think there are ways to do anything the Festool tools do except for the Domino (although a plunge router can make sliding tenons too but it is a much more challenging process). But the work arounds are going to have some disadvantages but also possibly some advantages. The key reason to avoid the green kool aide is the price. Roughly twice the alternatives is steep.

[Fidel Fernandez]

The best MFT Stationary is this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb7j6QGZoF0 This video shows more or less how is constructed (German).

This other one shows all the functionality and it is shown my the creator Guido Henn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cepg2DAkKQE&list=PLTyI0xsWljseMj6zHNfv6P0xSS1CO8k5m&index=3

If you have the LR32 you can do this with ease. http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/festool-tips-techniques/1352-make-your-own-mft-top.html#post14833

If you use google chrome you can see it in English and order the magazine with the steps and plans: https://www.holzwerken.net/shop/abos/holzwerken/einzelheft_e/holzwerken_37_november_dezember_2012__1
https://www.holzwerken.net/shop/abos/holzwerken/einzelheft_e/holzwerken_38_januar_februar_2013__1

they are downloadable pdf. I think they cost around US$ 10,00 each.

[Jim Dwight]

If you want to build your own (I do) you should check out Woodrave.com. The guy sells a clever jig that lets you space the holes on 4 inch centers using pegboard. The MFT is on 96 mm centers so it isn't exactly the same but I like the idea of 4 inch centers. You "drill" the holes with a plunge router. I plan 3/4 holes (not 20mm like the MFT). You could drill 20 mm diameter holes with the proper router bit (apparently Bosch and Festool offer one).

[Homer Faucett]

If you have a router and a drill, you can do it on your own. It takes a little precision drilling, but it's not impossible even with just hand power tools. I find the Paulk bench too heavy and bulky. Making your own jig from scrap MDF or plywood takes some fussing. Making the pins from 1/4" spacers turned down on a drill chuck with sandpaper to fit the pegboard holes gets you what you need.

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