Need some advice on a glue up...

[john davey]

I am currently building a small case and am worried about the glue up. I am doing this all hand tools and no plywood. The case will be smallish at 22” wide x 14” deep x 11” high. The dust frames and drawers will be poplar or pine and the outside panels and drawer fronts will be cherry. All will be dimensioned to 5/8” thick and It will have 2, 4” drawers and 3 dust frames connecting to the side panels. These side panels are my concern. The side panels will be a glued solid panel with the grain orientated top to bottom. And have 3 dados/rabbets in them for the dust frames. I am worried that if I glue these dust frames in the sides will split. I am thinking I will glue the first 4 inches and then toenail the remaining length with brads or finish nails. I do believe this will resolve the splitting but I do not think this will make a strong case. Furniture was made like this for 100’s of years before plywood so I am hoping the experts here can give me some clues to making this as strong as possible without splitting it. The options I have come up with are:
· Just glue it as the size is small enough for Cherry and it will be fine. I don’t think this is correct but I do not know how far you can push cherry or any other wood for that matter???
· Glue the first 4” from the front on all dust frames and toenail the rest. It will hold and I am being overly cautious?
· Glue the first 4” like above and drill an oblong hold in the rear of the case at each dust frame and install a screw and then burry it with a plug. This sounds good but I don’t like the idea of a plug.
Also I was just going to nail the rear panel in which is also going to be a glue up. If the first option is OK can I just glue this in as well. I could ship lap or T&G the back and nail it as well.
There will be a top and bottom to this case as well that will be connected to the case via some sort of buttons/figure 8 fasteners or similar. I guess if I just toenail like the second option the top/bottom will also give some support.
For those wondering this case will sit on top of my night stand. The current night stand is a normal height but when I purchased a new bad last year it was much higher and now I cannot see the alarm clock. So I figured a little case on top would be good. A few more junk drawers always help and it gives me practice on case work which I have no real experience at.
Any ideas will be greatly appreciated, Thanks, John…

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Others here will more likely chime in with good answers, but my first instinct would be to look at ways to make the back or top/bottom part of the structural form, and get your strength and rigidity from there, then your dust frames can just sit in their rabbets, with a little glue in the front to keep them in place if needed.

From your description, it sounds like you're almost planning casework with no top or bottom, and then trying to get the dust frame to do that job.

Dovetail a bottom between your two side boards; if you want your top board proud like a table top (I'm assuming that's the reasoning for this figure-eight fastener thing you allude to?) then uou could add a couple of dovetailed stretchers across the top rather than a top board.

Dovetailing boards into the front of the sides boards (putting some show wood in front of your poplar dust frames while you're at it) can also help get you rigidity. You could do the same thing in the back, and groove them to accept your back panel. You could mortise these instead of dovetailing from the front if you don't want the joinery to show. Mortise or dovetailing stretchers in also helps if you want a bottom that is raised from the surface the casework sits on.

I can't speak to the movement in this case -(not and not be just guessing) but I'm sure someone else here can help out on that front.

do you have a drawing or sketchup of you design? That could help us envision what you have in mind.

[john davey]

Hi Joshua, yes casework is what I had envisioned for this. Your other options all are valid. I am sketchup retarded but this is a simple case with the two sides connected via the 3 dust panels The front is an open area for the two drawers. The top and bottom I was planning to be proud of the case with a beveled edge/chamfer facing each other. Like a two drawer nightstand without the legs.

[Sam Stephens]

The web/frame dust frame should only be glued the first few inches into the side dados to allow the case sides to move. Nail brads at an angle also work b/c these typically allow some movement. The dust/web frame side stretchers are typically M/T into the front/back stretchers but NOT glued, again to allow the case sides to move. Allow ~1/8" of movement for the M/Ts i.e. leave a 1/8" gap at the tenon shoulder rather than flush. The front back stretchers can be dovetailed into the sides for added case strength. Case backs are usually shiplapped or T/G, not a single glued up panel b/c of movement issues with respect to the rest of the case grain orientation. The back of the case may be rabbeted to accept the back and hide the back's edges. Nail brads to attach the back to the case (not glue). As for the top/bottom, a sub-top, sub-bottom assembly attached to the sides via DTs is common. The sub-top/bottom doesn't need to be a whole panel; a 4" wide board at the front and back will suffice. The real top and bottom can then be fastened to the sub-top/bottom provided you allow for movement. If the sub-top/bottom makes the case seem too heavy, you can attach the top/bottom to the sides via stopped (i.e. hidden) sliding DT glued for the first 3-4".
I've found Bill Hylton's book "Illustrated Cabinet making" to be very helpful for these sort of considerations. May be available at the local library.

http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Cabinetmaking-Design-Construct-Furniture/dp/1565233697

[Jim Matthews]

I only glue the front of webframe, no deeper than the front crosspiece.

The rear of the frame floats in a dado and has a single screw fix it to the side of the case, in an elongated slot.
I think of it like this, the webframe is to keep the drawers on track, not to keep the carcasse square.

[Mark Salomon]

This is also how I do it.

[Zach Dillinger]

You can glue the first few inches and nail the rest, or just skip the rest of the nails and rely on the case back to provide strength. For a piece as small as you are describing, I wouldn't bother with sliding dovetails or the like. Just glue the front of the drawer blades into the case, leave the rest to float in the dado, and the case joinery / back will provide plenty of strength to the case.

[john davey]

Thanks for the replies and the book link. I ordered it as I think it will be a good read :)...