help me identify this Atkins?

[Mike Allen1010]

Below are some pictures of a 26", 9 PPI Atkins crosscut saw I recently restored. I think this is probably a #53, but it might be a 400 (probably wishful thinking!). I'm not exactly sure and I'm hoping someone can help me out.
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This saw has the Perfection style handle and the 4 saw nut configuration that was found on both the #53 and the Atkins 400 series. I think it's probably a #53 because the fasteners are brass, not nickel plated as is typical for the 400 series.

What is confusing me is that the tote is plain without either chip carving or the embossed floral pattern that I've seen on all the other Atkins 53 models. Did Atkins make any #53 with plain totes like this?

If Atkins didn't make any 53's with plain totes then my next best guess would be a 400 but I also can't really tell what the tote wood is - it is probably apple, which was used on the number 53's, but it's dark enough it might be rosewood, which was used on the 400's. This tote doesn't have the distinctive grain "striping" I've seen with many rosewood totes, but I've also seen some rosewood totes that look pretty similar to this one -but I can't really tell!?!

Typically, I wouldn't consider the possibility this is a 400, however the degree of taper griniding on the plate is extraordinary, more typical of the 400's I've seen than a 53. Either way I'm happy, it's a nice user and I love the Perfection handles.

Any help is much appreciated!

All the best, Mike



striping

[David Weaver]

Not sure what it is, but I snapped up one like that off of ebay not long ago. An 8 tpi, and its etch is long gone, so I have no idea what it said. Like that one, it has a very drastic taper, and in the case of the example I got, it had very steep breasting.

If I had to put money on a bet, I'd say it's apple.

This is the one that I got (handle not as good of shape as yours).

111030540933

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I can always tell that old rosewood they used in tool handles by the smell of exposed fresh wood, or working it. Obviously you don't want to needlessly start planing/sanding the thing just to see, but maybe you can take the handle off, and a saw a bit deeper in the slot where it's not obvious and get a whiff?

Where the nickel plated fasteners brass or steel underneath? Seems to me the nickel-plated nuts on the Disston 115 saws where brass, and I can see someone before you removing the last vestiges of nickel in an overzealous cleaning attempt.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

This is the one that I got (handle not as good of shape as yours).

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Damn, apparently there are still decent deals to be found on the eBay. You may have just kicked off another acquisition spree for me, Mr. Weaver. Thanks.

[steven c newman]

And to think, I've been using two such saws, and only paid $8 + Tax from a store 2 miles away260099260100260101

[David Weaver]

Damn, apparently there are still decent deals to be found on the eBay. You may have just kicked off another acquisition spree for me, Mr. Weaver. Thanks.

Well, it wasn't a perfect saw (or isn't), but it's a great candidate (past tense now) for a quick pickup to make an 8 point rip saw. It's a nice saw, nicer than any of the newer D8s I've had, and half as much.

[Mark Wyatt]

I have a 1940 Van Camp Hardware catalog from Indianapolis. In it, they list a set of Atkins saws that can be purchased for hardware display. The image is not particularly clear, but it looks like these saws do not have the carved handle. Attempted images below:

[Pat Barry]

Sure, its a nice saw, that's for sure. But I get so confused looking it because the background has so many different brown tones. If you notice professional photographers like to use a relatively uniform grey, non-distracting background for their pictures. Nice job on the restoration though.

[Mike Allen1010]

And to think, I've been using two such saws, and only paid $8 + Tax from a store 2 miles away260099260100260101



Nice score Steven,the first Saws is definitely an Atkins #53 and looks like it will clean up to be a real beauty-- congrats!

The second one has me thrown -- the overall handle shape and carving is consistent with Disston # 16, but the configuration of the saw nuts doesn't fit -- for #16 medallion would be at the bottom. Sorry, I wish I could be more help.

congrats on the score and best wishes for putting them back in working shape. As someone that lives in the "hand tool desert" of Southern California, I'm jealous of you guys in the parts of the country where beautiful, vintage hand saws like this are more common.

All the best, Mike









phen

[Mike Allen1010]

I have a 1940 Van Camp Hardware catalog from Indianapolis. In it, they list a set of Atkins saws that can be purchased for hardware display. The image is not particularly clear, but it looks like these saws do not have the carved handle. Attempted images below:

Thanks a lot Mark for sharing your information. I know you are a real Atkins enthusiast and I should have guessed You would have some good references. If I'm reading the catalog correctly, I don't think any of the models listed there are #53's?

Thanks for the help! BTW, I was finally able to put the molding planes you generously sent my way back to work. Not nearly as nice as as the moldings I've seen you make, but a decent start for a beginner like me.

All the best, Mike

[Mike Allen1010]

Sure, its a nice saw, that's for sure. But I get so confused looking it because the background has so many different brown tones. If you notice professional photographers like to use a relatively uniform grey, non-distracting background for their pictures. Nice job on the restoration though.

Thanks Pat for the suggestion. I am a horrible photographer and I can use all the help I can get! Ironically, my wife is a professional photographer and and would be absolutely horrified if she saw any of the pictures I've posted! All she knows is that I occasionally borrow one of her cameras-- maybe it's time for me to get some tips!

All the best, Mike

has no idea my

[Mark Wyatt]

Thanks a lot Mark for sharing your information. I know you are a real Atkins enthusiast and I should have guessed You would have some good references. If I'm reading the catalog correctly, I don't think any of the models listed there are #53's?

Thanks for the help! BTW, I was finally able to put the molding planes you generously sent my way back to work. Not nearly as nice as as the moldings I've seen you make, but a decent start for a beginner like me.

All the best, Mike

Sir, do you dare suggest that I have some affinity for these shiny metal objects? I assure you, I have no need for these common workman's tools. :rolleyes: Here is an Atkins #53 5 PPI rip saw from the toolbox.

The saw numbering on the saws in the set (listed below the picture) is different from the other Atkins saws listed in the catalog. For example, the #53 is on the preceding page.

[Rob Paul]

Mike,
Nice restore job.
Maybe your saw is a No 70. That seems to be the only un-embossed applewood perfection handle with brass screws on a skewback saw in my 1919 catalog reprint.
[Other perfection skewbacks; #53 and #68 are embossed, #400 is rosewood with nickel plated screws. All the other perfection handles are on straightback saws]

[Pat Barry]

Mike, my attempt at humor was not well conveyed. I am very impressed by the array of nicely finished saw handles in the background and they distracted me. More of your nice work I a sure.

[Mike Holbrook]

I thought the older Atkins saws did not have a design on the handle? I have a 26", 8 PT, rip, straight back, nickel hardware, no handle design. The etch is all but gone. The handle has a lambs tongue much like a Disston #7. The plate on that particular saw is worn a little thin and it needs to be sharpened. I am waiting on another 26" Atkins to get here that I won last week:
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The second saw has the "sway" back and I think it is a 9 PT crosscut like Mike Allen's. I also scored an 18", 12 PT. Love those Atkins saws. Sounds like Creekers may be about to corner the market on Atkins saws. Sure would like to know where to find more info. on Atkins saws?

[Phillip Pattee]

Check the taper grinding on the blade. The 400 had five guages of taper over the length of the blade. I think the 53 only had three.

[steven c newman]

On the medallion of the second saw; PHEONIX WARRANTED above an eagle Both saws are about the same length. MIGHT go back to that store, seems they have a couple more "good ones" in the $3-5 range.260222260223Cleaned up, they do good work...

[Daryl Weir]

Hey Mike,

As was already stated, I think you have a No.70 there. Here's a scan out of my 1907 pocket catalog.
Hope it answers some of your questions.

Take care,
Daryl


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[Mike Allen1010]

Hey Mike,

As was already stated, I think you have a No.70 there. Here's a scan out of my 1907 pocket catalog.
Hope it answers some of your questions.

Take care,
Daryl


260270

Hello Daryl,

Thank you very much for your information and for attaching a scan of your catalog -- I really appreciate your help. If anyone would know the correct model number, you certainly would.

I'm sure I'm sure you hear this all the time, but I am a HUGE fan of your work! I have three of your saws and they are absolutely fantastic in every way! One of your saws was the first expertly tuned handsaw I had ever used (a #12, 28", 6 PPI ripsaw) and it was absolutely a revelation for me -- I had no idea I could easily and accurately rip 6/4 red Oak with a handsaw!

Daryl, your saws are the reason I haven't owned a table saw in 15 years and why I first became interested in restoring and sharpening my own saws. On behalf of hand tool woodworkers, thank you very much for all the work you've done to help us realize what an expertly sharpened/tuned vintage saw can really do!

Okay, I know --- now I'm just gushing -- OMG! I got a post from DARYL WEIR - Wow!!! I may never wash this mouse again!

Daryl, I don't want to push my luck, but any chance we could get some pictures of your collection? Any particular favorites?

All the best, Mike

[CALVIN BYERS]

Any idea when this saw was made. Can't find it in any online Atkins Catalog. Etch looks like No 5.

[Jim Koepke]

Any idea when this saw was made. Can't find it in any online Atkins Catalog. Etch looks like No 5.

That looks more like a saw made by Geo. H. Bishop. That could be why it isn't in any online Atkins Catalog.

jtk

[CALVIN BYERS]

404516
That looks more like a saw made by Geo. H. Bishop. That could be why it isn't in any online Atkins Catalog.

jtk

Sorry but has a Atkins etch looks like No 5

[CALVIN BYERS]

The handle does somewhat look like a Geo Bishop handle.
404518

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Frankensaw?

Have you had the handle off?

[CALVIN BYERS]

This is with handle off.

Handle design looks/is factory. I think it was in the 1912 Atkins catalog there was a No 4 and No 6 but the No 5 was skipped.
Perhaps it was made for a certain hardware supplier like Van Camp or made earlier which I can't find in earlier catalogs. Will look more when time allows, have already
spent quite a bit of time researching it online.

404526

[Pete Taran]

Looks like that handle has been with that blade for a while. Another data point, attached is a picture of a removable handle from a nest of saws I have that is marked "Zenith" by a firm named Marshall Wells. Marshall Wells was a Hardware Store operating out of Duluth MN from 1902-1960. They resold saws made by both Bishop and Atkins. Further, since Bishop and Atkins both operated close to each other, it isn't unheard of that they might emulate each others goods to grab market share. The fact that the blade is etched Atkins tells me it was made by Atkins. Those saws are not that common, and it's unlikely it's a replacement. For what it's worth, the blade attachment point on the Zenith nest I have is identical to the one the OP shows. I think it was so you could adjust the hang angle up or down and anywhere in between.

Further, while comparison of two single handles is not sufficient to draw a conclusion, the wing nut on my saw is different than that shown on the OPs saw, suggesting that they had different makers.

404528

[CALVIN BYERS]

Look at the underside of handle.

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[CALVIN BYERS]

Would anyone know who manufactured Standard handsaws?
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[Joe Bailey]

Would anyone know who manufactured Standard handsaws?
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Disston (No. 085)

[Gerald Schram]

does it have a metal plate on the handle?

[CALVIN BYERS]

No it doesn't have a metal plate.
Was told that it was made by Stanley but not sure.
Its 18" with 10 tpi. Nice little saw.
405611




does it have a metal plate on the handle?

[CALVIN BYERS]

It could be the Standard made by Disston.

Thanks.

405613