Rusty Jointer still good?

[Mark Kay]

I have a chance to buy a Craftsman jointer that looks like the fence & Bed are rusty. I haven't seen it in person, just a pic, don't have much info other than it belonged to someone's father who died & he rarely used it, and they aren't really interested in woodworking/carpentry.

I thought I saw something in a magazine or online to get rid of the rust on cast iron (not naval jelly.) Does anybody know what it is, can it be made serviceable, and is it worth it? I can probably get it pretty cheap. It is an older model that has a base with both leg levelers as well as casters--I opted out of a Ridgid jointer last year because I needed it to be movable by one person and a decent set of wheels were about $40-$50 (these days.) If it's a 6", how much would be "a steal?"

Thanks...

[Joe Shinall]

I used Boeshield Rust Free on all mine. Very easy to use. Wear gloves. Spray it, let it set about 30 seconds, scrub with scotch brite then wipe. If you still have rust after that, get a sheet sander or if you have one of those Mouse sanders it works great with another spray of Rust Free and a little scotch brite pad on the sander. Then wipe clean. You will want to seal it after that with a silicone free wax to prevent future rust and make it easy for stock to slide across.

As far as value, no clue, I'll let others take that one. Pictured is the Grizzly jointer I bought and used the Rust Free on. The clean side was just scotch brite and elbow grease with no sander. Had to use the sander on an old bandsaw I purchased years ago though.

260039

[Rick Frye]

My solution is to use a slurry of Barkeepers Friend and WD40 also using the Scotch Brite pad and the required elbow grease.

[Denny Rice]

Mark,

Just like Joe I own a Grizzly jointer. Its almost identical to the one he has pictured except mine might be a little newer. Mine has the white and green base and the on /off controls are located above the right side of the fence. To keep it clean I use a penatrating oil like PB Blaster. Spray the entire top down and give the PB Blaster time to work. Like Joe I use a green scotchbrite pad to work everything loose and wipe it clean with clean paper towels. Spray down top with 409 and clean again with paper towels. At this point the top will be clean but not very slick. After The 409 is completely dry buy a good wax ( I use Johnson's) it comes in a can like car wax apply wax and let it come to a dull haze and buff dry with a good old cotton t shirt. I usually apply 2-3 coats. As far as what the jointer might be worth its hard to say without photos, but don't let surface rust scare you away from a good deal.

[Myk Rian]

If it's a 6", how much would be "a steal?"
Free. That's what I paid for the one in the back of my truck. I use it for weight.

[Mark Kay]

I used Boeshield Rust Free on all mine. Very easy to use. Wear gloves. Spray it, let it set about 30 seconds, scrub with scotch brite then wipe. If you still have rust after that, get a sheet sander or if you have one of those Mouse sanders it works great with another spray of Rust Free and a little scotch brite pad on the sander. Then wipe clean. You will want to seal it after that with a silicone free wax to prevent future rust and make it easy for stock to slide across.

As far as value, no clue, I'll let others take that one. Pictured is the Grizzly jointer I bought and used the Rust Free on. The clean side was just scotch brite and elbow grease with no sander. Had to use the sander on an old bandsaw I purchased years ago though.

260039

Thanks Joe, that before & after comparison looks great! That may be the stuff I've seen in a mag, I thought I've seen a comparison/shootout in one mag between a half dozen or so chemicals but I don't remember if that article had preventatives or cures... or both.

[Mark Kay]

My solution is to use a slurry of Barkeepers Friend and WD40 also using the Scotch Brite pad and the required elbow grease.
Thanks Rick, I have heard of Barkeepers Friend but never used it... Is it something like CLR? (Calcium-Lime-Rust remover)

[Jerry Miner]

Some Craftsman jointers were made with a non-adjustable outfeed table. They are a lesson in frustration, IMHO, and I would not take one even if it was free. Check out this "deal" before you buy!

[Mark Kay]

Mark,

Just like Joe I own a Grizzly jointer. Its almost identical to the one he has pictured except mine might be a little newer. Mine has the white and green base and the on /off controls are located above the right side of the fence. To keep it clean I use a penatrating oil like PB Blaster. Spray the entire top down and give the PB Blaster time to work. Like Joe I use a green scotchbrite pad to work everything loose and wipe it clean with clean paper towels. Spray down top with 409 and clean again with paper towels. At this point the top will be clean but not very slick. After The 409 is completely dry buy a good wax ( I use Johnson's) it comes in a can like car wax apply wax and let it come to a dull haze and buff dry with a good old cotton t shirt. I usually apply 2-3 coats. As far as what the jointer might be worth its hard to say without photos, but don't let surface rust scare you away from a good deal.

Thanks Denny, I come from an automotive background and back in the '80's & '90's, I used Meguire's Carnauba Spray Wax on my vehicles and it hazed with a lotta friction but when it wiped off, it was slippery as can be--swear I picked up an extra 1mpg! I have Norton brand pads that are gray and a finer one that is white I think.

This is a picture, it looks pretty old and if it's not 6" and priced at a song & a dance, then I may pass... click to enlarge. Is it worth...50? 75? 100? That too much? Anybody know this model?

260040

[Ron Kellison]

$50 would be a steal. Free would be better but the old Craftsman shortbed (36") jointers seem to go for around $75 to $100. The outfeed table is fixed and the fence sometimes has problems holding a square locked position. I used to have one and I finally got tired of continually having to adjust the fence when edge jointing.

That rust will scrape off easily with a razor blade. If you decide to buy it I would coat it with Boeshield and then buff it down.

Ron

[Joe Shinall]

Thanks Joe, that before & after comparison looks great! That may be the stuff I've seen in a mag, I thought I've seen a comparison/shootout in one mag between a half dozen or so chemicals but I don't remember if that article had preventatives or cures... or both.

I cleaned it a second time on that side to get the remaining little spots you still see but just took that pic as a comparison when I was doing it. Also, wear a mask with that Rust Free. Smells like rotten eggs and if you breathe it in or get the fumes in your eyes it burns like hell. Denny added the perfect follow up steps with the 409 and Johnson's wax. I reapply the wax about once every 2 months or if I see my stock isn't sliding smoothly then I do it sooner. A non slick Jointer table can really fight you.

Just remember to use silicone free whatever. Silicone can build up on the saw and transfer to your wood and mess with your finishing.

I work in a shop with no A/C so it plays hell on my tools so I buy Rust Free 2 bottles at a time. Works great for hand tools too.

[Mark Kay]

Some Craftsman jointers were made with a non-adjustable outfeed table. They are a lesson in frustration, IMHO, and I would not take one even if it was free. Check out this "deal" before you buy!
Thanks Jerry. I don't know if the infeed or the outfeed adjusts, but when I zoomed in on the pic, it looks like the infeed is lower to the fence than the outfeed, just my opinion based on the gap

[Jerry Miner]

I wouldn't worry about the rust, but that looks like a non-adjustable outfeed. It's a dog. I'd pass. My .02

[Joe Shinall]

Some Craftsman jointers were made with a non-adjustable outfeed table. They are a lesson in frustration, IMHO, and I would not take one even if it was free. Check out this "deal" before you buy!

Looks from the picture like this may be one of those non-adjustable ones. Would have to agree with Jerry on this. I have never used one but I can see how that could be a pain, I really had to dial mine in when I bought it, making several adjustments to both infeed and outfeed tables.

[Myk Rian]

Some Craftsman jointers were made with a non-adjustable outfeed table. They are a lesson in frustration, IMHO, and I would not take one even if it was free. Check out this "deal" before you buy!
This what to look for.

260041

[Jerry Miner]

Now that looks like a real nice combination machine: anchor/doorstop!:)

[Mark Kay]

This what to look for.

260041

Thanks Myk! What's the matter? Michigan run out of cylinder heads?

[Mark Kay]

Thanks everybody. The guy said, "I can tell you that all of his tools are very lightly used, he planned on doing alot of woodworking after he retired and never got to it. So if it is what you want just make a fair offer and its yours!"

Should I bother offering anything ($40?) or just pass & try jointing with my router table? I wouldn't be able to joint the face then.

I'm really getting close to buying rough lumber to do new kitchen cabinets...

[Joe Shinall]

Thanks everybody. The guy said, "I can tell you that all of his tools are very lightly used, he planned on doing alot of woodworking after he retired and never got to it. So if it is what you want just make a fair offer and its yours!"

Should I bother offering anything ($40?) or just pass & try jointing with my router table? I wouldn't be able to joint the face then.

I'm really getting close to buying rough lumber to do new kitchen cabinets...

If you need a jointer that bad, I'd try for 40. Clean it up of rust, make it shine, put some new blades on it and try it. If it doesnt work good, sell it for $80 and make your money back.

[Denny Rice]

Thanks Denny, I come from an automotive background and back in the '80's & '90's, I used Meguire's Carnauba Spray Wax on my vehicles and it hazed with a lotta friction but when it wiped off, it was slippery as can be--swear I picked up an extra 1mpg! I have Norton brand pads that are gray and a finer one that is white I think.

This is a picture, it looks pretty old and if it's not 6" and priced at a song & a dance, then I may pass... click to enlarge. Is it worth...50? 75? 100? That too much? Anybody know this model?

260040

If you plug it in and it runs it worth 40-50 dollars, IMHO. From the size of it, the H.P. of the machine, and the non adjustable outfeed table you will be limited to what kind and how big of stock you can pass over it, the outfeed table is pretty short.(I guess you could buy something to catch the stock as it comes off the outfeed table but the infeed table is even shorter. I mean if your in the business of making small things like jewerly boxes, ect, I think cleaned up this might be an ok jointer. After I got it cleaned up probably the first thing I would do is go buy a sheet or 2 of plywood, enclose the bottom of it and design some sort of dust collection / storage area under all that wasted space under the jointer. Another thing before you pull the trigger is check the condition of the knives in the head. Find out the model # of the jointer and go online and see if you can still buy replacement knives for the jointer and how much a new set is going to set you back, just in case the ones in the jointer are all knicked up or shot. Craftsman tools seem to be a bit quirky when it comes to replacement parts for their stuff. Parts are usually overpriced and take a long time to get in.

[Mark Kay]

$50 would be a steal. Free would be better but the old Craftsman shortbed (36") jointers seem to go for around $75 to $100. The outfeed table is fixed and the fence sometimes has problems holding a square locked position. I used to have one and I finally got tired of continually having to adjust the fence when edge jointing.

That rust will scrape off easily with a razor blade. If you decide to buy it I would coat it with Boeshield and then buff it down.

Ron
Thanks Ron, sorry, I missed this post.. that a Largemouth?

Now I'm debating going to look at it or not.

Does anybody know if the Boeshield Rust Free is Muriatic Acid or similar? And if I go look at the jointer, what specifically should I look at/look for? Thanks.

[Mark Kay]

If you plug it in and it runs it worth 40-50 dollars, IMHO. From the size of it, the H.P. of the machine, and the non adjustable outfeed table you will be limited to what kind and how big of stock you can pass over it, the outfeed table is pretty short.(I guess you could buy something to catch the stock as it comes off the outfeed table but the infeed table is even shorter. I mean if your in the business of making small things like jewerly boxes, ect, I think cleaned up this might be an ok jointer. After I got it cleaned up probably the first thing I would do is go buy a sheet or 2 of plywood, enclose the bottom of it and design some sort of dust collection / storage area under all that wasted space under the jointer. Another thing before you pull the trigger is check the condition of the knives in the head. Find out the model # of the jointer and go online and see if you can still buy replacement knives for the jointer and how much a new set is going to set you back, just in case the ones in the jointer are all knicked up or shot. Craftsman tools seem to be a bit quirky when it comes to replacement parts for their stuff. Parts are usually overpriced and take a long time to get in.

Thanks Denny, that answered a lot of what to look for. I think it may be a short window deal, I think it's an estate sale and may not have enough time to get the specs then get answers on replacement parts before it may be gone. He said he will be there from 9-5 and I can't get out of here until noon at the earliest. He couldn't give me any technical answers, not even model #, because he's not at that house.

P.S. The kitchen cabinets, except for 2 tall pantry doors ~54" tall, everything else will be 36 or 30 inches... I'll be doing the doors, (rails & stiles & probably veneered panels), and the biggest rails will be for a 30" wide plate rack and 36" wide over fridge cab. Except for those two, the rails & stiles will be 3" wide & would have to face joint them (that the term?)

I also have a newer Ridgid planer.

[Joe Shinall]

Does anybody know if the Boeshield Rust Free is Muriatic Acid or similar? And if I go look at the jointer, what specifically should I look at/look for? Thanks.

It is basically phosphoric acid.

[William C Rogers]

Mark

A few things I don't think were mentioned. These old Craftsman's were under powered with a 1/2 hp motor IMHO. Also with that much rust the blades are likely to be beyond sharpening. Lastly it may be difficult getting the nut that hold the blades broke free. I had one of these and due to motor size it was frustrating along with the constant fence adjustment. I eventually bought a 6 Delta and a world of difference. Good jointer. I now have a 14 inch Mini Max and another big difference over the Delta.
Bill

[Ole Anderson]

I got my Sears King Seeley from a friend at work 30 years ago that stored it in his garage for years. Not nearly as rusty as the one Myk posted, but rustier than yours. Rust had pitted the beds. Not knowing better I had at it with my belt sander, wire brushed the rest and painted it grey (not the beds though). Later I added a 1 hp TEFC motor. It turned out OK, still using it to this day. I wax the beds probably once a year. Serves me fine.

[Mark Kay]

Thanks Joe, Bill & Ole!

Well, I went to look at the jointer and all the other tools they had for sale (it was a family member's tools that had died, I was actually dealing with the grandson, I'd say in his 20's or so. His dad was painting the house getting it ready to sell.) The rust wasn't too bad and it did start but there wasn't any wood handy to demonstrate it. Seeing the opinion of the board here that replied, I tried explaining to him that the opinions were that it wasn't a good machine with no outfeed adjustment, that it commonly has fence locking problems, and that the blades may be hard to find, if the current ones are bad. I said people suggested from Free to $50, as well as some suggesting DO NOT BUY IT. So I offered $35 and he didn't really say no or yes--my feeling was that he agreed on it--and he showed me the other tools available too.

Many of the tools were old, nothing "antique", but most metal. Some hand drills, power drill, pad sander that looked more like an angled drill motor, a Grants brand drill or sander, a Dremel mini lathe, a couple other electric drills that were metal and heavy (one with an old fashioned metal ball ended switch to change either direction or speed), a Dremel scroll saw, a bunch of files & rasps without handles, a faucet wrench, some bench grinders, a Black & Decker small jigsaw/router table setup, a belt sander, an old dovetail jig, I think Bosch, some small squares and some other hand tools and other hand tools like screwdrivers, hammers, etc. There was also a reciprocating saw that was weird, it was 90 degrees instead of like modern recip saws.

260143260142

They also had a radial arm saw, and an old shopsmith that had the bandsaw and tablesaw but it had the sanding disc mounted instead of the saw blade. Most tools were obsolete items, I don't think any were double-grounded, though 1 thing I asked him to plug in DID have a grounded plug... maybe the belt sander. There was also an old B&D miter saw, and a circular saw that had a 7" blade in--not 7-1/4", and it didn't look like a 7-1/4" blade would clear the shield.

I asked if they just want to sell everything on the table or individually or in groups and he said just tell him what I was interested in and he'd make a small grouping along the wall on a bench.

So I picked out that weird saw, some files, a bench grinder of unknown brand, some auger drill bit set of 6, the little router/jigsaw bench, the skil belt sander, the small faucet wrench, some small grinding stones on 1/4" shanks, a utility knife, the old dovetail jig, etc.

I offered $100 for the tools and the jointer--$65 for the stuff piled by the wall. He said he wanted more, like 35 for each bigger thing (saw, grinder, jigsaw table, etc), so I said lets start putting things back, and start with the reciprocating saw. I told him I can get a new no-name belt sander for around $29 with a warranty from H-F, (I already bought H-F's dovetail jig new for around $30 & mastered it), and he said okay, he has to go get his father.

When his father came down, he asked what I offered and said --$100 for everything picked out. $35 for the jointer and $65 for the other stuff. He said he had people coming after work that know what the stuff is worth and he'll wait for others' offers. He said he'll sell the jointer but not all the stuff I picked out. I tried to get a price out of him but he didn't commit. I tried explaining the problems with the jointer, current costs for a belt grinder, etc, to explain my offer... then he said he'd take TWO HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS!! For the stuff along the wall! I said he'd never get that, that's way too much. He walked over to the jointer and said I could take that--then asked how much again? And then he said he can't do that!!

So I left before his son came back. I spent probably an hour or two there, standing & walking back & forth with a bad leg & ruptured discs in my back.

I looked up what his son originally posted when I got home... :

"You will not be able to find these prices anywhere else because we are in the process of moving to a new home and my grandfathers tools need to be sold (we do not do wood working like he did)...."

"...I cant stress enough that all of this needs to go and be sold so make and offer and its yours! FIRST COME FIRST SERVED WHOEVER GETS TO THE TOOLS FIRST GETS THEM!"

Lucky for me I had a Buy 1 Get 1 Free Big Mac coupon in my truck to ease my bad day...

[Jerry Miner]

Hey mark, it wasn't all bad: you didn't get stuck with a DOG of a jointer that you had to put a ton of work into just to find out what a DOG it is!!! Now you can look for a real jointer! ;)

[Mark Kay]

Thanks Jerry! But I have BIGGER concerns if I find a REAL Jointer. I don't have a garage or basement to do my kitchen cabinets in and am temporarily converting the parlor to a shop! I have the new fridge up & running literally 6 feet from the oak workbench... 8ft from the router table (in the living room, across from the recliner!) If I don't widen the doorway to the kitchen, I'll have to take the doors off the stocked fridge just to get it into the kitchen.

If I get a full-size modern router, even 6", I'll need to make it mobile enough to move it around, even roll it out onto the porch, which is pretty cramped already (fold-up picnic bench, truck seat, large gas grill, no electrical outlets.)

IF I can pull this off... and it's a big IF, especially with me planning on doing the finishing too... when done, I may have to sell the real jointer, just for lack of space!

[William C Rogers]

Mark

I believe you made proper offers. With your limited space the jointer would be a chore to move around. I have often see those delta table top jointers show up on CL. But I don't know anything about them. I am also building cabinets, but I have a 30 X 56 workshop and still feel cramped. I do have a number of large tools though. Good luck on your search for tools.

Bill

[Joe Shinall]

Mark, that same jointer model is up for sale here on my area CL for $150 and it's in perfect condition with new blades so your offer of 35 for something you have to put hours of work into was not a bad offer. Also, those other items were probably bottom of line. Once you said B&D I was like yeah, glad he didn't get that. Keep an eye out and shop around if you are not in an absolute hurry and you will find what you need.

William, cramped in a 30x56?????? I have a 16x20!

[Mark Kay]

First I'd like to thank everybody for their comments and recommendations so far!

I had a chance to by a new-style Craftsman tabletop jointer that the owner said had cast iron tables/beds really cheap, they looked aluminum in the pictures, like the PC160, but got swayed into looking at an unseen (no pictures) Jet JJ-6CS from an upcoming estate sale. (What's up with all these woodworkers dying?) I originally e-mailed him and didn't get a reply so called his # and he gave me directions. It was a long drive and, lo and behold, it was rusty too! He, the son-in-law, said, "Yeah, he always took care of it and kept it covered in plastic out in the garage!" So I asked if I could see it work and he tried pushing a short 2x4 thru it and had to crank the handwheels and it seemed like the wood petered out on the rust.

He said they barely used it, mostly to make bunk beds. It was seriously an older Jet, the blue paint era. There was one on ebay a couple days earlier that the seller took a 200 offer for it--I offered 150 because the freight was 175 and I didn't think an old Jet 6" would be worth 325. Anyway, this guy said they paid 1100 for it and I said someone got robbed! I don't think he was a woodworker, just used it with his FIL a couple times.

He said just make him an offer and I told him there was a similar type jointer about 90 miles away that the owner said he'd take 180. I offered him 175 and he said that was too low, he wanted at least 400! I said with the rust (there was also a few inches of the bottom of the case that was rusty too, like if in a flooded basement) and the work to clean it up, maybe 200? and he seemed to be on a different page--I even said we were on different pages. He got a wire brush and started brushing the rust on the infeed table & said it'd clean right up with some steel wool and WD40!

I countered for the last time that if I had to drive my truck 90 miles (180 round trip) I'd go 250 for saving me the long trip with my gas-hog ZR2. He held his guns and I left. He followed me for a few blocks and back at the highway we turned different directions. I drove about 4 miles and my cell phone started ringing--it was him! I pulled over and then he asked if I had any second thoughts! I said that it's already costed me 15-20 bucks in gas already, I shouldn't go any higher... he said you don't add that in anytime you have driving costs! I said my final offer is 275 and that's it. He said no, that wasn't enough!