PDA

View Full Version : The Sleeping Teenager......



Dennis Peacock
04-15-2013, 10:17 AM
Now, I normally don't air out my family issues or problems in an open forum, but I'm truly trying to find a solution.

I have a 16 y/o son who puts everything off until the last dying minute and then it's STILL hard to get him to do his chores and school work. He sleeps most of the day and typically only gets up in just enough time to go to school (we home school and he only attends a local academy twice a week). I will add that once you get him up, for the most part, he will stay up. We've tried the following:

1. Talking to him and trying to reason with him.
2. Keep waking him up every 5 minutes....in order for him to go back to sleep.
3. Poured water on him to get him up....maybe
4. Sprayed water on him to get him up....maybe.....
5. Dragged him physically out of bed and onto the floor...this works sometimes
6. Pounded pots and pans with large wooden spoons and such to make enough loud noise to wake him up

He seems to like going to bed around 1 AM and sleeping until noon or after.
I've had him checked out by our family physician.
I've taken away his laptop and no internet....he doesn't care

He's not on drugs, he doesn't drink alcohol, he doesn't smoke, he is somewhat respectful, he's generally a good kid, and I can see that he's trying to improve. I also know that this boy is intellectually very smart...but common sense comes very hard to him. He's a fine young man but I'm just trying to get him ready for the real world of work and college. He has a hard time with the simple stuff...like remembering to empty the trash, and he seems to come across many times like everything needs to be handed to him....when I've raised him quiet the opposite.

I could write a book on this whole deal, but I'm looking for fresh ideas, suggestions, experiences, and etc.....

Thoughts?

mike holden
04-15-2013, 10:31 AM
You could try accepting this behavior. In my limited experience, it will pass.
Our adopted son was similar to this thru high school and college, he got his masters in physics and works for Sandia labs on nanotechnology.

The real question is whether or not he HAS to get up. Is he late for the academy (not just last minute, but LATE). Or any other truly time-sensitive event. Just getting up late for home schooling does not count. As parents, you are not that important to him (you ARE, but he wont admit it).

This pattern of sleeping is common in teens.

Take heart, this too shall pass.

Mike

Ted Calver
04-15-2013, 11:11 AM
This pattern of sleeping is common in teens. Take heart, this too shall pass.....
We had the same issues with two of ours. Your good intentioned efforts are just creating resentment. As long as time sensitive obligations are met, just roll your eyes and tough it out. On the other hand, chores are chores and there's no excuse for not doing them. He's coming up on a time when he will want wheels and the car becomes a bargaining chip....good grades, finished school work and chores = access to the car. Worked for me when I was a kid. I needed those wheels.

David Weaver
04-15-2013, 11:18 AM
Right now, you're the gas and he's the brakes. You might be the link that allows him to get things done at the last second, and he hasn't experienced failure of his own doing. Just supposing that. I was never quite the same way in terms of sleeping, but there were a lot of things I put off to the last second.

Let him fail a little bit, and he'll decide when he doesn't like failing.

Is there anything that he likes to do that he does really well? Maybe it's not so much an issue of not doing things he doesn't want to do, but having a lack of things that he does really want to do and that he looks forward to?

AS far as it not lasting forever, it probably won't. I did, though, have a roommate in college who could sleep through anything. He would go to sleep at 1 am and sleep until noon the next day. About the only thing I could get him to do was stay up long enough to turn off the alarm if he wasn't going to get up, otherwise he could sleep through it ringing out loud.

He had a fitness class in college (loosely put, just a general requirement class that we had) and the only requirement for the class was showing up. He picked an 8 am class. you could literally show up in the t shirt and shorts you slept in, but if you missed three classes, you automatically failed. That was supposed to be his last semester and by week 2, he had slept through two classes already. I think he slept through the third about a week or two later, and didn't graduate that semester. You don't want your son ending up like that - it was an expensive mistake on this guy's part. (He was hoping to be a lawyer, where you have to record your time, etc).

Erik Loza
04-15-2013, 11:24 AM
My wife dropped out of high school and was a huge partier in the day. Into her early 20's, she got it together on her own and subsequently got her PhD and is one of the tops in her field, now. Everyone finds their own life path, IMHO. She and I don't have any kids but we have friends with kids in similar situations to yours, Dennis. Personally, I agree that coming down on them harder only breeds resentment but on the other hand, if we had kids and this was the situation, I might sit down with them say, "You know, it would make us really proud if you found some focus right now but we cannot live your life for you. I think that when you turn 18, you will have to move out and discover who you are, on your own".

Out of curiosity, is there a learning disability?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Michael Moscicki
04-15-2013, 12:12 PM
I'm 21, and he seems similar to me, well minus the home schooling and water. Have you tried rewarding him every time he does something positive? Granted that's not the way the real world works, but if you get him into a rhythm, he should eventually do something because he knows nothing else. For example: every night at 9:00 before collection day he takes out the trash, even when he moves and his collection day is different or the retired worker who gets up for work when he no longer has to, because it's what he's used to.

After a while, you should no longer have to reward him and he will take self satisfaction in accomplishing something.

If that fails, you could permanently enroll him in school, that way he will have to wake up at a certain time every weekday. Besides, maybe all he needs is some social interaction with other students that home schooling just doesn't give him. That competitive factor. The satisfaction from doing better than a classmate on a test or getting a certain rank based on his GPA.

Dennis Peacock
04-15-2013, 12:22 PM
Erik,
No, no learning disability. He's crazy intelligent.!!!! He does upper level math in his head and hates having to "show his work".

Michael M.
I've offered him a $100 bill just to get his school work caught up over a month's time. He never made it. I've offered him money and other benefits for getting school work and chores done on a weekly basis. He paid no attention to the offer.

We have sat and had several talks about things in general and about how life really works. We do allow him to make most decisions, but his education and responsibilities take top priority. He's truly a good kid and has a wonderful heart towards kids and people in general. We do try more rewards and atta-boys rather than continually coming down on him. He already, all too well, knows that we aren't happy with his overall lack of self-discipline to get the things done he needs done.

Right now, he's 3 weeks behind on his math lessons (and we pay a tutor for him on this), he's 5 weeks behind on his composition school work, and his grades are in the toilet. He can make straight A's without really trying if he wanted to......he just doesn't want to.

Greg Portland
04-15-2013, 12:27 PM
I have a 16 y/o son who puts everything off until the last dying minute and then it's STILL hard to get him to do his chores and school work. He sleeps most of the day and typically only gets up in just enough time to go to school (we home school and he only attends a local academy twice a week).
Is the problem his sleep schedule or is the problem that he puts things off until the last minute? What is he doing until 1am each night? You're not going to get him up early if he's staying awake until 1am or later. Attempting to wake him up is trying to fix a problem that already happened.


but common sense comes very hard to himHe's a teenage boy, they don't have common sense.

Greg Portland
04-15-2013, 12:29 PM
He can make straight A's without really trying if he wanted to......he just doesn't want to.
He's bored, nothing is challenging him. Find something to challenge him...

Brian Kerley
04-15-2013, 12:35 PM
It's called being a teenager.

Or he's on drugs.

Or he could have Mono.....

Jeremy Hamaker
04-15-2013, 1:02 PM
Okay, I don't have kids so that's first up. But it seems to me that really most Parent/Child behavior is just standard human to human behavior.
My opinion is first off, don't reward someone for doing what's required. The reward for doing what's required is that you don't receive a negative consequence. Second, I know I don't like to be scolded, chided or ridden by someone who fears I might fail, when I haven't failed yet. So if I want to sleep when a deadline is looming, I'm gonna sleep. Third, if you're the one who assigned the deadline, spell out the consequences for missing the deadline, and then when the deadline is missed ENFORCE THE CONSEQUENCES. (I don't care how sad his eyes look). If you're not the person that assigned the deadline, then let them pay the consequence for missing the deadline or failing at the task, to whoever assigned it.
Fourth: Cut him loose when the time comes. Yes he's your kin but there comes a point in time where their determination to self-destruct should not be allowed to take you down with them. Fifth: Don't blame yourself. You sound like a reasonable parent, sound like you're doing your best, sound like you care appropriately. That's all anyone should be asking of you in this great parental experiment, including yourself.
Sixth: Really, this is probably just a phase and things aren't going to end up dire or disastrous anyway...
Good luck in any case!

David G Baker
04-15-2013, 1:03 PM
It could be a medical problem. I would have him examined by a doctor that specializes in the field that covers sleep issues.

Dan Hintz
04-15-2013, 1:10 PM
Seems to me if the main problem is lack of caring about consequences, the consequences aren't strong enough. So up the ante. No need to dump water on him, it's up to him if he wins or fails... but make the failing part really unpleasant. Meals are at a set time... if he misses the window, he goes hungry. Any growing teenager will tell you they want to eat all of the time, so I bet his schedule will straighten out pretty soon. Find the next problem. If he doesn't do his homework on time, he doesn't get to do some favorite activity (and you'll need to find what that is). No TV, no games, no friends over until his main responsibilities are on track.

I wouldn't call it tough love, but maybe "firm love"?

'Jacques Malan'
04-15-2013, 1:12 PM
I myself suffer from sleep apnea, and have to sleep every night with a CPAP machine.

Have you considered having him do a sleep test in a lab?

Dan Forman
04-15-2013, 1:59 PM
Actually, he sounds a lot like me, especially at that age. Except for the good at math part. :)

When he is up, what does he like to do, how does he like to spend his time?
What are his favorite subjects in school? Does he lag in those too?
Is his school work challenging enough for him, or simply boring?

Are these things that you described new, or has he always been this way? Has he lost interest in things he used to enjoy? Sounds like he could be depressed. Here is a good article on teen depression. Teen Depression: Guide for Parents (http://www.helpguide.org/mental/depression_teen.htm)

Teens need a lot of sleep, though 12 hours may be pushing it. Check out this article on sleep patterns. BBC - Future - Health - Sleep: Are you a lark or an owl? (http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120806-are-you-a-lark-or-an-owl) And this one Owls and Larks: The Importance of Sleep Chronotypes » Dispatches from the Culture Wars (http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/03/10/owls-and-larks-the-importance-of-sleep-chronotypes/)

I didn't do consistently well in school until I went back to college at age 36 and became a straight A student. Before that, I could get A's or B's in the classes I liked and cared about like english and biology, but math, social studies, chemistry and physics (because of the math aspect) I did poorly due to lack of interest (and hence lack of study). And math, well, my brain just doesn't do math I'm afraid, interest or not. I thought about majoring in biology until I learned it required a year of chemistry, a year of physics, and a year of higher math. My brother was always good at math, it came easy to him. I bet that's genetics too.

I spent 10 years working as a full time musician, which allowed me to pretty much follow an owl sleep schedule, except when we had to get up early to travel to the next gig, or drive all night to get there. When in college the second time, I was able, for the most part, to find classes that started at 11:00 or later. Since graduating, I have worked evenings at a local hospital. It is possible for owls to find a way of life that works for them, but it may limit one's options to a degree.

Looks like cash rewards aren't much of a motivator, have you tried removing things? Sometimes the only way to motivate kids is to make life less convenient for them if they don't meet certain standards. For a video gamer, no more video games until... can be a powerful motivator.

Dan

John Gomes
04-15-2013, 2:23 PM
Fill a cup with marbles, put the cup in the freezer for several hours, and when it's time to get up, dump the frozen marbles between the sheets! No mess, no noise, and usually highly effective.i

curtis rosche
04-15-2013, 3:03 PM
Squirtgun filled with either hot water for ice water... stand at the door and fire away. or,, give him a set of chores to do that can only be done between say 5am and 8am for modest pay. after that times they dont get any pay for them. After doing the work he will be awake enough to stay awake. Simulates a real job (kinda) and gets all the stuff you dont wanna do yourself around the house done :p

Phil Thien
04-15-2013, 3:20 PM
If my dad told me he wanted me up by 6am (or 5am or 4am) I'd better be awake and in the shower by that time.

"You do this one more time and you'll be able to read what happens in the newspaper tomorrow morning, do you [expletive deleted] understand me?"

I guess that kind of parenting has gone out of style.

We were best friends, BTW. I rarely disappointed him, because I didn't want to disappoint him.

David Weaver
04-15-2013, 3:25 PM
Reminds me of a story, and I can only tell this because two of the participants who are not my father are long since deceased.

My father's growing up was a lot like Phil's. His dad loved them, but you didn't cross the boss, more or less. They had skating parties from time to time and they had old tires throw at the edge of the pond to start fires when they did.

One year, one of the tires was partly in the water, and my grandfather said to my dad's brother "go pick up the tire so that it doesn't freeze in the ice". Dad's brother just casually said "I'll think about it" (he was 16, same age as the OP's son). In front of the rest of the kids, grandfather stood up quietly and kicked dad's brother right in the rear hard enough to lift him up off the ground. My dad likes to tell that story, I don't know why. He grew up on a farm with 9 kids, and it seems like there are dozens of them like that (kids getting under wagon wheels, kids getting hit by cars, hit in the head by accident with baseball bats when they get in the way, ...).

curtis rosche
04-15-2013, 3:32 PM
Reminds me of a story, and I can only tell this because two of the participants who are not my father are long since deceased.

My father's growing up was a lot like Phil's. His dad loved them, but you didn't cross the boss, more or less. They had skating parties from time to time and they had old tires throw at the edge of the pond to start fires when they did.

One year, one of the tires was partly in the water, and my grandfather said to my dad's brother "go pick up the tire so that it doesn't freeze in the ice". Dad's brother just casually said "I'll think about it" (he was 16, same age as the OP's son). In front of the rest of the kids, grandfather stood up quietly and kicked dad's brother right in the rear hard enough to lift him up off the ground. My dad likes to tell that story, I don't know why. He grew up on a farm with 9 kids, and it seems like there are dozens of them like that (kids getting under wagon wheels, kids getting hit by cars, hit in the head by accident with baseball bats when they get in the way, ...).

I mighta sorta kinda did that a few times,,, there was a 3ft wooden paddle with my name on it till my senior year,, and yeah it got used.... sure worked lol

Chris Padilla
04-15-2013, 5:42 PM
Well, I don't have much to offer for your plight, Dennis. I have one kid, a girl, and she is in 5th grade and is 11. She is quite bright and does just fine. I only need to raise my voice to effect change in her. I wonder how this will go when the hormones really kick in but she has been very easy since she was a baby. I keep hearing how girls are great until puberty and then watch out! :)

My brother sounded A LOT like this when we were growing up. Other than us looking alike, we were 180 degrees of each other in everything else. I have to admit that I didn't like him very much growing up as I thought he was such a strain on our parents. He finally shaped up and turned out fine but it took him until his 30s to get his life together and actually contribute to society.

I guess I would keep doing what you think is best for him and if he is as smart as you say, he will figure it out eventually. Do set some goals...life goals. Something like when you are done with high school, you had better be working or going to college. Sitting around the house doing nothing WILL NOT HAPPEN. Something of that ilk. As a parent, I feel it is our responsibility to show our children as many things in life as we can or is possible. Expose them to everything. Let them know there is a whole world out there and that they can do anything they want!

Good Luck! :)

Larry Frank
04-15-2013, 7:20 PM
The most difficult thing in the world is to let your kid fail. Sometimes,they just need to figure out the consequences on their own and suffer....it is difficult to stand back. Being a parent is not easy and there are no easy answers.

I believe that children need to have chores and responsibilities around the house from as early as possible. Even a 2-3 year old should be helping to pick their toys up and get used to it.

Just as an aside, some of the younger generation coming into work seem to bring this same attitude. They do not do anything unless someone is watching and directing all the time. There are some that are exceptional and do everything and do it properly without much supervision.

Jim Matthews
04-15-2013, 9:36 PM
I'm much further upstream, traveling with a 9 year old and six year old.

We stress rewards, and remind them that most of their priorities revolve around "extras".
If you're home-schooling, he's probably avoiding you so much as he can - that's how teenagers assert their independence.

My guess (and it's barely a SWAG) is that you're trying too hard.
If the child has normal social skills, it may be time to enroll him in college level courses to see if he's really all that clever.

Like many young men, he may suffer from over-confidence.
Shelter him from the consequence of failure at his peril.

Bonnie Campbell
04-15-2013, 11:01 PM
My daughter was like that at 16. I got tired of waking her up every 5 minutes each school day. We finally told her the parent alarm was going out of order. She'd get herself up on time for school or explain to the school why she was late. Since it would drop her grades by being late to often... no car if she didn't maintain a B average. She was late one day.

Bill Edwards(2)
04-16-2013, 7:58 AM
If you're bored and unchallenged... you sleep.

Rick Potter
04-16-2013, 11:28 AM
You are describing my little brother, who is now 65. Typical deal, I was the older responsible one, while he was the lazy carefree second child. He slept all the time, got bad grades, and flunked a year of school. That all changed when he got drafted for Vietnam and almost got his butt shot off. He came home, got married, worked full time, and went through Cal State LA at night, using his GI bill. He has been a go getter ever since.

The sad part is that his son, the younger kid, is following the same pattern. He's over thirty now, and still trying to 'find' himself.

Rick Potter

David Weaver
04-16-2013, 1:24 PM
Like many young men, he may suffer from over-confidence.


Ditto that. I knew at least a dozen friends who ended up out of college because they were convinced they were cut from the cloth of "i'm smart enough that I don't have to do much to compete".

You have to be on the absolute extreme end of intelligence, like one in 10,000 to get away with doing very little and behaving irresponsibly. There are far more who are "very bright" who fail instead.

Phil Thien
04-16-2013, 1:58 PM
The sad part is that his son, the younger kid, is following the same pattern. He's over thirty now, and still trying to 'find' himself.

Rick Potter

I've always known what I've wanted to do. I have sympathy for those that seem lost.

The old adage to "do what you love" only works if there is something that you love to do, that can generate an income.

The truth is, I think people will learn to enjoy most jobs at which they become proficient. I advise younger people to pick something that will provide a decent income, and get going. That, enjoyment will come with experience. That, I know people that work on sewers that whistle on their way to work (true).

That people learn to enjoy work they're good at is just a theory of mine. If I'm wrong, by the time someone figures it out they will at least have a career (that they hate, LOL).

Dan Hintz
04-16-2013, 3:03 PM
Ditto that. I knew at least a dozen friends who ended up out of college because they were convinced they were cut from the cloth of "i'm smart enough that I don't have to do much to compete".

You have to be on the absolute extreme end of intelligence, like one in 10,000 to get away with doing very little and behaving irresponsibly. There are far more who are "very bright" who fail instead.

Funny that... when I was hired for my current job, I was told (paraphrasing):

You are joining a company where everyone used to be "the smartest in the room"... no longer. You will be challenged on a daily basis. And just when you think you understand it better than anyone else, someone sits down next to you and screws up that belief.
Amusingly enough, we hired some young buck who still believes the "smartest in the room" idea and argues to infinity about any subject under the sun. Smart kid, but wrong as the day is long because he insists on fighting about minutiae he's not well versed in. I'll take the kid sleeping in the corner to that hot mess any day of the week.

John Sanford
04-16-2013, 11:22 PM
Fact: 16 year olds, especially 16 year old males, need more sleep than anybody other than newborns.

Fact: They don't need to be staying up until 1AM. What is he doing while he's staying up late? Tell him he can sleep in as late as he wants, as long as he's in bed, lights out, by 10 or perhaps 11pm. Do that and he'll generally be up and about NLT 10, often as early as 8.

Let him know that mornings belong to him. The nights are still yours. And except for extraordinary circumstances, knock off the squirt guns, water buckets, dragging him out of bed, etc. He can sleep in, go for a run/ride/walk/swim, watch movies, play video games, surf the 'Net, pretty much anything he wants to do, from the time the sun comes up until, say, 10am. At night, it's homework, chores, family time, and lights out at 10.

And yes, being challenged is another aspect. Only you can figure out what is a worthwhile set of challenges for him based on his interests, strengths and weaknesses, and how to weave that into his life so good habits of mind and spirit can be built.

Stephen Cherry
04-17-2013, 8:53 AM
OK- I'll chime in.

The first thing I would do is watch about 54 episodes of the dog whisperer. Of course, people are not dogs, and dogs are not people, but people and dogs form relationships and interact with each other. Usually, when the dog dominates, it occurs in the absence of structure by the owner (parent). Basically, the dog dominates because nobody else is, and because it can.

I'm not a fan of excessive physical punishment, and certainly not a fan of abuse, but I think that a good spanking at the right moment establishes that boundaries will not be crossed. One thing that I did do is if the children were acting up in the store, I would first tell them that if they continued, I would pinch them on the arm. And a good arm pinch hurts. Needless to say, I only had to do this a couple of times. Somebody reading this may be thinking that this is abusive, and I admit that I certainly do not enjoy the topic, but the advantage of a spanking or pinch is that when it is over you can give the kid a hug and tell them that you are sorry that you had to do it. I think that excessive talking and negotiations about doing basic necessary behaviors is much more hurtful and emotionally damaging.

Of course, 16 is a big kid, and discipline should have been established years ago, but that is water under the bridge. At this point it will take some effort. (One thing I wonder about is why the kid is not in school, school establishes a time table, teaches social interaction, and provides mental stimulation, even if some of the educational process is left for home.) I think that a reasonable time table needs to be set up. Lights off at 11, out of bed at 8, start study at 9, -- some variation of that. Now is the hard part- enforcement of the schedule- and that is where the dog whisperer part comes in. If it is out of bed at 8, the parent needs to be there to make that happen. Maybe a little extreme, but I would tell the child when setting up a schedule that it's up at 8, or else a arm pinch. Then at 8 you need to go in, say up, up, up, with a big smile. Then "Ok, little billy, it's arm pinch time, 5.... 4.... 3.... 2... 1...". Then a nice pinch on the arm so that it really hurts. (yes, this is extreme at that age, but the harm of an arm pinch is slight compared to the harm of continuing the current path.) After the pinch, give a nice hug, say sorry, and move on. No need for a lecture or guilt trip- that never helps.

Gordon Eyre
04-17-2013, 10:46 AM
We went through this exact problem with one of our boys and finally decided to let him fail, which he did. He dropped out of school in the tenth grade. We moved to a small town where he had no friends and since then he got his GED, paid his own way to college where he earned an Associates degree, joined the Army, went to night school and earned a bachelors degree with high honors, Army sent him to graduate school where he got a Masters Degree with high honors, was a distinguished military graduate from ROTC, received a commission as a 2nd Lt., served two tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, is now a Captain and a company commander, married with three children. Will wonders never cease?

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that he loves his parents. He is one of eleven children and we are a close knit family.

Gordon Eyre
04-17-2013, 11:01 AM
We went through this with one of our boys and finally decided to let him fail, which he did. He dropped out of school in the tenth grade. We moved to a small town where he had no friends and since then he got his GED, paid his own way to college where he earned an Associates degree, joined the Army, went to night school and earned a bachelors degree with high honors, Army sent him to graduate school where he got a Masters Degree with high honors, was a distinguished military graduate from ROTC, received a commission as a 2nd Lt., served two tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, is now a Captain and a company commander, married with three children. Will wonders never cease?

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that he loves his parents. He is one of eleven children and we are a close knit family.

This is my family and David is in the back row to the left.

260196

Stephen Cherry
04-17-2013, 11:03 AM
One more thing,

EXERCISE.

Running, walking, swimming, biking, whatever- it does wonders in making you tired, to allow sleep at night, and for a positive mental attitude.

Gordon Eyre
04-17-2013, 11:10 AM
One more thing,

EXERCISE.

Running, walking, swimming, biking, whatever- it does wonders in making you tired, to allow sleep at night, and for a positive mental attitude.

Stephen, with all due respect, you are assuming that the parents can get him to exercise or anything else for that matter, short of physical abuse. If they could reason with the boy they could get him up in the morning but alas that is often not the case.

Harold Burrell
04-17-2013, 11:59 AM
He is one of eleven children and we are a close knit family.

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Gordon Eyre
04-17-2013, 12:06 PM
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

True Harold, just ask my 36 grandchildren or my 14 great grandchildren.

Harold Burrell
04-17-2013, 12:38 PM
True Harold, just ask my 36 grandchildren or my 14 great grandchildren.

WOW...

No wonder you never could afford to buy a band saw. :D

Jerome Stanek
04-17-2013, 12:49 PM
Just seen a story on sleep in teenagers it said that the more they slept the less weight they put on.

Ole Anderson
04-17-2013, 1:15 PM
I was privileged to attend the "White Coat" ceremony at the University of Michigan medical school for my neighbor's son, who I often play golf with. This is their acceptance into med school after getting their bachelor's degree. They are given a white coat and a stethoscope. And they get a speech which basically says that "you are the brightest of the bright, up to this point everything came easy, many of you needed to study very little to get straight A's. That is about to change." at which point they were told that for the next two years, don't plan on any time off because you will be studying day and night and weekends. Turned out to be not quite that bad, but pretty close.

Stephen Cherry
04-17-2013, 3:59 PM
Stephen, with all due respect, you are assuming that the parents can get him to exercise or anything else for that matter, short of physical abuse. If they could reason with the boy they could get him up in the morning but alas that is often not the case.

Gordon- yes I have read all of that. The reason the boy does not get up out of bed is because his behavior is being accepted. As I said earlier, it is much kinder to pinch the child on the arm, or do whatever else is necessary to get him up, than to allow him to wallow his life away. Believe me, I have seen this type of thing, and in many cases, time does not treat these individuals well. If you don't want to pinch the child, get into the bed and tickle him- what ever it takes.

Is pinching a child abuse? Admittedly, at 16 years old, it is pretty extreme. But the child needs to be jump started into action. A pinch just hurts a little, and the pain goes away pretty quick. Allowing a child to sleep his best years away, the years when his brain is actually functioning like a sponge, is a greater problem.

Brad Adams
04-17-2013, 9:33 PM
If that was me when I was 16 I would have gotten a good swift kick in the butt. Not only by Dad but Grandpa also.
Parents let kids get away with way too much these days.

John Sanford
04-17-2013, 9:44 PM
(One thing I wonder about is why the kid is not in school, school establishes a time table, teaches social interaction, and provides mental stimulation, even if some of the educational process is left for home.)
From the Original Post:
He sleeps most of the day and typically only gets up in just enough time to go to school (we home school and he only attends a local academy twice a week).

Failure to pay attention deserves an arm pinch, a STOUT one. Others can draw their own conclusions about the value of your advice given the context ...

Stephen Cherry
04-17-2013, 10:20 PM
From the Original Post:
He sleeps most of the day and typically only gets up in just enough time to go to school (we home school and he only attends a local academy twice a week).

Failure to pay attention deserves an arm pinch, a STOUT one. Others can draw their own conclusions about the value of your advice given the context ...

Yep, I had read that part. School is typically 5 days a week, about 6 hours a day, am to pm.

Of course people need to draw their own conclusions, but it is certainly apparent that now is the time for action. Believe me, I have seen this sort of thing before, and it typically does not turn out well. There are lots of 50 year old men, who had great potential, who never got themselves into gear. I went to Catholic school though, and I can tell you that not doing your homework was in the long term, not too fun. The teachers just did not accept it.

Stephen Cherry
04-17-2013, 10:42 PM
Here it is in a gentle way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkq71IkUelo

Matt Day
04-18-2013, 1:02 AM
I'm curious too - w/o Internet, tv, and phone, what is he doing until 1am?

What is he interested in? Hobbies? Does he play sports?

My brother was kind of similar at that age, very intelligent and not challenged at school. No sports and was on the Internet even before Gore invented it. His motivation and drive was computers, and that world operated at night. He eventually grew out of it at college.

Dennis Peacock
04-18-2013, 4:53 PM
I'm curious too - w/o Internet, tv, and phone, what is he doing until 1am?

What is he interested in? Hobbies? Does he play sports?

My brother was kind of similar at that age, very intelligent and not challenged at school. No sports and was on the Internet even before Gore invented it. His motivation and drive was computers, and that world operated at night. He eventually grew out of it at college.

Matt,
He plays no sports and is NOT interested in sports at all. His only real interests are in technology and outreach to kids who are less fortunate or abused.
I've tried to get him interested in woodworking, turning, working on small engines, and the list goes on and on.....nothing sparks an interest enough to get him out of his room or enough to swing him into action.

Dan Hintz
04-18-2013, 7:38 PM
His only real interests are in technology...

Dennis,

Maybe he needs to get in VR/RE work (Vulnerability Research and Reverse Engineering). If he's as sharp as you say he is, this field would not only keep him challenged, but he would do very well in it (and get the laurels from those of us already in the field). You have to understand technology items (particularly computers) inside and out.

I'll warn you now, however... he needs to keep himself out of trouble. If he ends up working in this field, a high-level clearance is practically a necessity, and the process for getting one is no joke.

Ken Fitzgerald
04-18-2013, 8:01 PM
Dennis,

I know you are worried about your son and his habits. I was worried about our oldest son too.

Our oldest son didn't play sports in HS, wasn't a particularly good student and his main interest was MTV. Like your son, he slept 12 or more hours a day and like to stay up very late.

One of the major reasons I got out of the US Navy after 8 years was because of the improved income picture. Using my Navy training in electronics, the 1st year out, my income more than tripled as compared to what I was making as an E-6 over 8. I knew I could put my 3 children through college.

Well, the oldest went to one semester of college. He started his first semester at college. Too many evenings I came home from a late at night working at the local regional medical center to find he had pulled my desk chair from my office, was sitting on it in the family room...feet propped up....he's asleep.....MTV is on the television....the books are on the floor having never been opened to study. He flunked out at the end of that semester. I refused to continue paying for his complete lack of application. I gave him an ultimatum. Find a full-time job or go into the Armed Forces. I would NOT recommend this ultimatum to anybody. He enlisted into the US Army the next week. A few years later when Desert Storm broke out, I knew exactly where he was and he was headed into danger. If he had been killed or injured, I would still be suffering from guilt. Though he was in danger, thankfully, he survived.

He remained in the US Army for 9 years and got caught in a RIF. All personnel at the base where he was stationed in Germany were sent home and drummed out. The base was closed.

He worked a lot of jobs and today has been a local county deputy sheriff for nearly a decade. He works at the county jail. He loves his job, hates the politics involved and is very good at what he does.

He's married and has two adult daughters.

On his days off.....he's still a night owl......sleeps 12 or more hours if he can........he plays golf....throws darts.....has competed at the state level in dart tournaments.

Our oldest son became a mature adult who contributes to society and I love him dearly.

There is hope Dennis.

Bill Cunningham
04-18-2013, 9:58 PM
What your son probably needs is a girlfriend to impress. It always worked wonders for me.. Actually made me 'want' to go to school.

John Bailey
04-19-2013, 3:51 AM
Hi Dennis,

You are describing both myself at that age and my two sons. I was lucky because I happened to be both interested in and relatively good at sports. Although physically fairly athletic, both sons had no competitive interest in sports. They both struggled sitting in a classroom and doing any schoolwork whatsoever. They both got "C's" because they did well testing. They are 26 and 29 now. Since leaving high school, both have been fiercely independent and rarely have asked for any financial help. My deal with them has always been that I'll pay for school, meaning tuition and books, if they go, and they pay for themselves, meaning their own room and board. They have rarely even taken the tuition -- did I mention they are fiercely independent. 3 years ago when Jeb was 26, he told me he was tired of sleeping on couches. 3 years later he is finishing his junior year. Because of his working knowledge of computers and aeronautics, the school hired him as an instructor because they couldn't find a certified person to teach building UAV's (unmanned aviation vehicles). This year, again at age 26, my other son, Jake, told me his goal for the next year is to sleep in the same bed for the whole year. I think he is coming to the same conclusion his older brother came to at the same age.

My point is to let you know that each of us will find our way. As a retired educator I can tell you your son is probably more normal than appears. He will be OK.

I spent the last 3 years doing consulting work with schools developing alternative learning. The most success we had with students like your son is to get them a job in something they are interested in and give them credit for their work. Find ways to offer credit for math, English, social studies and science pertaining to their job. Most kids who are bored with schoolwork are bored because they don't see the relevance in their schoolwork. Somehow that pay check brings on the relevance. Make sure they set up good financial habits, but they should be in control of a good portion of what they earn.

Oh, and I agree with the girlfriend idea.;)

John Sanford
04-23-2013, 1:31 PM
Suggested reading on the subject of sleeping teenagers: Why Teenagers Really Do Need An Extra Hour In Bed (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829130.100-why-teenagers-really-do-need-an-extra-hour-in-bed.html)

Scott T Smith
04-24-2013, 9:55 PM
He's bored, nothing is challenging him. Find something to challenge him...

I concur with Greg; his issue is motivation, probably related to his high intelligence. He will probably grow out of it in time, presuming that he finds something to interest him.

Rather than leaning on him, you might try to introduce him into circumstances that will interest and excite him. Accelerated programs, or something that he finds of interest.