Thermark safety ?

[Hannu Rinne]

Can I still use a spoon after lasering it with cermark/thermark or could it whether to dissolve harmful substances ?

Regards,
Hannu

[Slavko Nikolic]

Hi Hannu,

I think yes because I've recently market large amount of knives for very serious company which is in food industry.
They made all kind of tests for whole month and finally approved Thermark.

[Hannu Rinne]

Thanks Slavko,

good to hear because I've been asked to engrave some cutlery for my client and they asked about the safety.

Best regards,
Hannu

[Martin Boekers]

I still would check with Cermark as they may adjust their formula from time to time.

Each country may have different guidelines for food safety. Even though Cermark is very durable
some acids it food may affect it.

There is a a member here at SMC with Cermark, hopefully he will post.

[Dan Hintz]

Can I still use a spoon after lasering it with cermark/thermark or could it whether to dissolve harmful substances ?

You're fine... Thermark is used on medical implants, if that tells you anything.

[Martin Boekers]

You're fine... Thermark is used on medical implants, if that tells you anything.

Dan just curious here, I know there has been issues with Cermark not being etched properly and wouldn't bond greatly.
Could there be an issue if it wasn't "cured" properly? Also an implant wouldn't neccessary be the same environment of say an acidic
pot of chili that a spoon may sit in for hours? More curious than anything. A few things, I have called other companies
about for food safeness they always seemed to be nervous and finally replied it was not food safe. (unless specifically made for a food
evironment.

[Dan Hintz]

The final product is a thin layer of glass with (inert) pigment embedded within it. At worst, you'll get microscopic glass pieces with colorant... no different than drinking out of a beer glass with a design printed on the side.

[Jesse Anderson]

It has also been tested in space i have done allot of applications in the food industry with thermark..

If u were making Thermark smoothies then we would have a different issue.

[Hannu Rinne]

Dan,

so I guess I could offer my services to local hospital :D

[Gary Hair]

Dan,

so I guess I could offer my services to local hospital :D

I have offered to do tattoo removal - no takers yet... Maybe it's the waiver that releases me from liability due to the fact that I can't guarantee that I won't remove several layers of skin and muscle along with the tattoo.

[Jesse Anderson]

I actually honestly thought about using my Epilog to do etchings in people's nail polish..... Tried it out a few time's.. I suppose though that there would be several FCC or OSHA violations... I have not heard of anyone in the world offering Laser Scarification Tat2's or Laser engraved manicure and pedicure saloons..
I have seen a guy on YOuTube Burn a image into his skin with a laser..... I have not desire to try that... Plus i am not familiar with what kind of radiation i would be exposed to...

""Quick Fact of History for the Day"

Not sure what kind of radiation a C02 laser gives off... I doubt though u would end up as the Famous Nobel Prize winner ""Madame Curie""..
That was when they did not know much about radiation.. She would keep radioactive isotopes in her pocket and desk drawer.. Even making a note in her studies that they glowed in the dark.... Different radiation though... I just learned this the other day.... U never know what the effect of something will be.. Maybe only Thermark could answer that....

[Dan Hintz]

It's not ionizing radiation, so no worries about any lasting effects...

[Michael Hunter]

...so no worries about any lasting effects...

Other than the big painful hole!

I think that phrase that they use on TV might apply here - "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME"



On the original Thermark safety question -

Common sense and practical experience suggests that properly applied Thermark will not pose any threat to health and I would have no qualms about using it on personal food-related items.

On items to sell, I would want written evidence from Thermark or a respected third party that it is OK before using it - people get so fussy about food related stuff that the risk of litigation is high. Having that bit of paper might save the time and expense of a court case.

[John Salitsky]

I've actually done some work recently for a large silverware/cutlery supplier using two methods, mechanical/diamond drag and thermark, on their merchandise and then having them test it at their testing facility. Here I'll post their comments, probobly easier than trying to type them.

"All of the rotary engraving samples you did were very good, The detail was exceptional. These items did well in the corrosion test and fairly good in the burnishing test. The location and size of the logo was also spot on. I would like to see the depth of the engraving increase, I know with a gravo-graph depth is somewhat limited. But adding depth will increase the logo life considerably when used in a food service environment. Adding an additional pass might be a solution to depth. Could you please check with the factory and let me know if increasing the depth slightly would be an issue.

The laser engraved and rotary engraved wooden handle steak knives: Both processes looked good, No corrosion and both held up very well in the burnishing test.

The laser engraved spoons, forks, and solid handle knives: The Knives did not do well in the corrosion test. The spoons and forks did, however the black marking faded considerably after wiping the items down following the corrosion test. All items did fine in the burnishing test. Many of our solid handle knives are forged which can draw carbon to the surface. When laser engraving the knives it changes the structure of the metal in the area where the laser is hitting. Being forged & having the carbon at the surface along with exposure to the heat of the laser seems to cause some problems. At this point I wouldn't move forward using this process on spoons forks and our solid handle knives for that reason. We do make some 2pc knives this process would work fine on, we would avoid using this process on any of our welded steak knives. If you have any ideas to how this could be prevented, we'd definitely test some more samples. I took some photos of the 1pc solid handle knives following the corrosion test and attached it below. You'll notice the obvious corrosion issues on these knives as well as the black fading from the knife to the far left."

I solved the depth issue just by adding more pressure to the spindle.

[Jesse Anderson]

Here is Copy and Pasted Info Directly from Thermark..

I hope this helps every one here... There is not really a yes or not answer.. but.. I would bet money on the fact that no one would ever get sick over a logo engraved on a spoon or knife... Just show this article to your customer.... Any person who is not a hypochondriac or agorphobic will reasonably agree that it is 100% safe....

Thank u every one for the post's. I learn something every day.. I hope this helps people.



http://www.thermark.com/TM_Images/Approvals/Med_Device_w.jpgMarking on Medical Devices - A common question is “do your products have FDA approval?” Unfortunately, we cannot give a definitive yes/no answer to this question as it depends of the individual circumstances of how the product is going to be used and what materials and process are involved in its manufacture. Firstly, the FDA do not generically approve a process such as laser bonding; what we do know is that we have multiple customers that have used the TherMark laser bonding process and have had their instruments with our marks successfully approved by the FDA. Click here (http://www.thermark.com/TM_Downloads/Approvals/Application%20Note%20-%20Marking%20for%20Medical%20Devices.pdf) for an application note that discusses medical applications and common durability tests that our marks have survived.


TherMark Process Approvals

TherMark’s patented laser bonding process has been listed as an approved Direct Part Marking (DPM) process for use in military, aerospace, and automotive applications. If any of the below standards apply to your business, TherMark laser marking materials offer a unique solution for bringing your part marking into compliance. They also demonstrate the proven nature of laser bonding for creating permanent marks on highly demanding applications.

http://www.thermark.com/TM_Images/Approvals/DOD_w.bmpMIL-STD-130M (Military) - This standard provides the item marking criteria for development of specific marking requirements and methods for identification of items of military property produced, stocked, stored, and issued by or for the US Department of Defense. It has been mandated that the majority of the items are registered with a Unique Identification (UID) number. The standard defines data format for both free text and machine-readable information (MRI) in the form of 2D matrixes. Click here (http://www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/UID/attachments/mil-std-130m-20051202.pdf) to read the whole standard.

NASA-STD-6002A (Aerospace) - This standard establishes uniform requirements for applying Data Matrix identification symbols to parts used on NASA programs/projects using Direct Part Marking (DPM) methods and techniques. Click here (http://standards.nasa.gov/released/6000/NASA-STD-6002A.pdf) to read the whole standard.

http://www.thermark.com/TM_Images/Approvals/NASA_w.bmpNASA-HDBK-6003A – This handbook was developed to provide NASA and its contractors with instructions to safely apply Data Matrix identification symbols to aerospace parts using these new DPM methods and techniques.Click here (http://standards.msfc.nasa.gov/released/6000/NASA-HDBK-6003A.pdf) to read the whole handbook.




http://www.thermark.com/TM_Images/Approvals/AAIG_w.bmpAAIG B-17: 2-D Direct Parts Marketing Guideline (Automotive) - The Automotive Industry Action Group’s purpose is to provide an open forum where members cooperate in developing and promoting solutions that enhance the prosperity of the automotive industry. AIAG's focus is to continuously improve business processes and practices involving trading partners throughout the supply chain. The B-17 2D standard provides information for the marking & reading of Data Matrix &/or QR Code symbols marked directly on parts using laser, dot peen & inkjet technologies. Click here (http://www.aiag.org/source/Orders/index.cfm?section=QUALITY&task=3&CATEGORY=AIAGPUBS2&PRODUCT_TYPE=SALES&SKU=B-17&DESCRIPTION=EAIAGPUBS2&FindSpec=&CFTOKEN=3754592&continue=1&SEARCH_TYPE=find) for more information on B-17: 2-D.

http://www.thermark.com/TM_Images/Approvals/Rolls_Royce_w.bmpRolls Royce JES 131 (Aerospace/Automotive) - This engineering specification defines and controls identification marking methods and requirements for item identification. It also prevents the use of unsuitable markings, whilst allowing the maximum choice of marking methods and set up parameters. The specification also covers identification marking using machine-readable 1D and 2D code symbols.Click here (http://www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/Docs/uid/direct%20implement.pdf) for more information.

[John Salitsky]

I also found that info. from Thermark when I was researching my whole flatware issue. The issue I was having was more of a corrosion issue rather than a safety issue. In Fact Thermark all but guaranteed it's safety by directing me to the medical instrument thingy.

[Jesse Anderson]

You think corrosion would happen with or without Thermark... Or is there more Corrosion just around the Thermark area.