Lee Valley panel clamp experiences?

[Phil Thien]

The Lee Valley panel clamps intrigue me:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31181&cat=1,43838

I've gotten pretty good at using bar clamps, and cauls. But I will admit that it can get a little tricky getting all the parts assembled and aligned and tightened, especially on a larger panel. Some sort of panel clamping system that speeds the process and takes some of the stress out would be welcome.

The thing is, with my cauls, I know I'm applying a decent amount of downward pressure (because I'm using cauls with a taper, and clamping them), and my panels come out with hardly any misalignment between the boards. Scraping once or twice with the back of a chisel to remove the glue is typically all it takes to make sure my boards are flushed up.

Will I get the same result with the Veritas panel clamps do you think?

At $44.50 they aren't exactly cheap. It wouldn't want to buy three or four of them and find out they don't work as well as what I'm doing now.

Thanks for any feedback.

[Roger Rayburn]

Ninety bucks for one clamp plus you still have to make the wooden parts. I often wonder if the first person who ate an egg saw where it came from.

[Mike Heidrick]

Nine hundred bucks buys a JLT panel rack used most of the time. $500 more buys a flatner. WAY better than 18-28 bessies.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I haven't tried the lee valley clamps , but I use a set sort of like this woodcraft clamp:
http://m.woodcraft.com/product/2000321/1858/woodriver-clamping-system.aspx
they put pressure in both directions on the panel which seems to work well. About 1/2 the price of the lee valley.
Even the lee valley doesn't seem super expensive if you compare to the cost of
bessey parallel clamps of any size

[John A langley]

Phil, I have four of the Woodcraft style clamps that you can have for $5 a piece plus shipping. But I will warn you that my experience with them was a PITA. The Lee Valley ones look like they may be easier to use. I would stick with the Cauls

[Phil Thien]

Phil, I have four of the Woodcraft style clamps that you can have for $5 a piece plus shipping. But I will warn you that my experience with them was a PITA. The Lee Valley ones look like they may be easier to use. I would stick with the Cauls

The Lee Valley ones DO look easier to use than the Woodcraft.

The Woodcraft units are fairly positively reviewed. And I can see by just looking at a picture how continuing to tighten them would put more and more caul pressure, as well.

I'm not sure if the Lee Valley ones work similarly. It doesn't look like they would provide as much caul pressure. But sometimes these things aren't obvious.

So the Woodcraft-like ones you have, are they the ones that use the plastic blocks, or drilled holes. Here, like Woodcraft, or like Rockler:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2000321/1858/woodriver-clamping-system.aspx
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10711&site=ROCKLER

[Mike Henderson]

Why not just make yourself a set of cauls and clamp them at the outside of the panel? And use ordinary clamps to pull the panel together. Do you need to stack panels?

Except for stacking, I don't see how the LV clamps are superior to cauls and ordinary clamps. Maybe I'm missing something.

Mike

[scott vroom]

$90 per set, and you have to mill/drill the cauls?

Another Lee Valley gimmick to pick your pocket.

[Phil Thien]

Why not just make yourself a set of cauls and clamp them at the outside of the panel? And use ordinary clamps to pull the panel together. Do you need to stack panels?

Except for stacking, I don't see how the LV clamps are superior to cauls and ordinary clamps. Maybe I'm missing something.

Mike

I just thought they'd be faster, providing a clamp and caul all in one.

[Phil Thien]

$90 per set, and you have to mill/drill the cauls?

Another Lee Valley gimmick to pick your pocket.

If they work well, they do have some distinct advantages. And good bar clamps aren't cheap.

[Mike Henderson]

I just thought they'd be faster, providing a clamp and caul all in one.
One thing you have to be careful of. You need to pull the cauls tight first to flatten the panel, then apply pressure to pull the boards together. If you pull them together first, the cauls may not be able to push the boards into alignment.

I hope those clamps allow for that sequence.

Mike

[One other point - cauls are cheap. I make them out of good 2x4s which cost only a few dollars each.]

[Phil Thien]

One thing you have to be careful of. You need to pull the cauls tight first to flatten the panel, then apply pressure to pull the boards together. If you pull them together first, the cauls may not be able to push the boards into alignment.

I hope those clamps allow for that sequence.

Mike

[One other point - cauls are cheap. I make them out of good 2x4s which cost only a few dollars each.]

You clearly understand my concern.

The more I look at them, and read about them, the more I'm convinced they are designed to combat cupping of a glued-up panel.

One of my biggest concerns is edge alignment. Many of the panels I'm gluing are over 24" wide, I need the edges aligned to minimize clean-up because I don't have a wide belt or drum sander, or wide planer.

[Jerry Thompson]

I use the cauls Mike descibes and shows on his Web site. I could not be happier. I have done many a 24'' panel and done in the sequence Mike described they have all come out on the money.
Just because something is expensive does not mean it is better nor economical.

[John Nesmith]

One of my biggest concerns is edge alignment. Many of the panels I'm gluing are over 24" wide, I need the edges aligned to minimize clean-up because I don't have a wide belt or drum sander, or wide planer.

Neither do I. So, I made three pairs of these bowed cauls. They work well.

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[Andy Pratt]

I have used these for about 5 years and will certainly say that they work excellently and are definitely not a gimmick. When I am making panels, I would actually prefer to have enough of these to be able to use only them and not have to also use parallel jaw clamps in between them. And that's with a rack of 24 bessey k-body clamps sitting right next to the table. The beauty of the system is that if you have made your wooden components correctly, you will totally eliminate panel cup, and reduce glue joint misalignment to a virtual non-issue. I have tried a lot of other methods and nothing is as simple to use or foolproof as this. I don't even bother alternating the parallel jaw clamps on each side of a panel any more when I use this, that's how good it is. I have made the wooden components out of douglas fir and hard maple, and found that they didn't work too well with the fir. On the hard maple they do every single thing that is claimed about them. Fit of the wood components is not nearly as critical as I had figured it would be when I made them (don't be overly worried about grain direction etc, although it is smart to consider it).

On the issue of price, they are $45 or $40 per "clamp", not $90 as one person said. One "item" gets you a stop and a clamp as show in the picture. They cost around the same price as a k-body so I feel like price is a non-issue. You have the inconvenience of making the wood components one time, but you get the convenience of making them to a size that suits your work so I feel like that is a wash. You can also move these among different size wood components for various jobs, and above everything else...they really work better than even bessey k-body clamps, there is just no comparison for this specific application (panels). Try a set of two and you won't be disappointed. You'll see that where you use these you have little or no edge misalignment and any panel you use them on will not have noticeable cupping). I currently use two per panel on the ends, and if I had my druthers I would use them all the way across each panel (maybe every 6" or so). If you have questions on making the wood pieces just pm me and I can give you tips to avoid some annoying errors I made on the first pair I built.

I have never stacked them as shown in the photo and feel like it would be much more cumbersome to get everything right if stacking them, so I wouldn't personally put much value on that feature, although as I said I've never actually tried it.

Hope this helps, if you want pics of my setup just let me know.

Andy

[phil harold]

I had thought of making panel clamp out of these
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31138&cat=1,43838,43845,31138

[Phil Thien]

Hope this helps, if you want pics of my setup just let me know.

Andy

Thank you Andy, that helps a ton.

I don't have a lot of clamps. I only have cheap aluminum bar clamps.

So these LV panel clamps are attractive to me.

I think I'm going to order some next time LV has one of the free shipping discounts.

[Andrew Joiner]

I would make my own with dowel nuts and bolts. You could use a nut driver in a screw gun for faster clamping.

[Phil Thien]

I would make my own with dowel nuts and bolts. You could use a nut driver in a screw gun for faster clamping.

When I was researching these I saw someone that had done just that.

[Andy Pratt]

I didn't have any luck finding long dowel nuts (I would figure 3" long and 5/8 dia is a minimum), anyone have a source? I often find myself holding the upper panel "bar" (wood part) down with one hand while slowly tightening the clamp with the other, to ensure good alignment, so I would want the option to use a simple swivel bar over a power driver myself. If you run the threaded rod too far away from the support (dowel rod) you are likely to clamp off thickness center and induce bowing, so I would personally solve distance using different holes in the clamp bars as opposed to driving more threaded rod through the dowel nut. Lastly, if making your own you would need some piece of reliable flat stock set up to let the threaded rod rotate in it without falling off, to use as the piece that contacts the panel edge. Maybe it is possible to put all of this together for less than LV charges, but to do it right you've got to locate specialty hardware and I honestly can't find the hardware to do it correctly at any price. I imagine that if I did, it would start approaching the cost of the LV system. If you're bothering to use a panel clamp, you really need it to hold the panel truly flat and keep the glue joints aligned correctly, and that takes quality components that don't generate a lot of slop. If anyone has found good quality hardware that can loosely replicate the LV jig for less than $20 a clamp let me know and I may order some to give it a try and write a comparison.

Like everyone else I wish the LV clamps were less expensive, but I can say that I'm positive that I have gotten my money's worth out of them. A set of two saved me a 3'x4' walnut panel one time (had no extra thickness to work with on the component boards) and that alone saved me more than the cost of the clamps. Panels are a large investment in time and usually high-grade boards, so anything that helps take away the chance of user error is well worth it in my book.

[ian maybury]

Hi Andy. Do you find that the Veritas items generate any clamping force at right angles to the faces of the panel being clamped, or it is a case of how hard you lean on the upper bar before tightening? Would you use additional clamps for this, or does the need arise?

They are pitched at an awkward sort of price - expensive enough for what they are, but not expensive enough for DIY to be the automatic choice. (somebody will probably read this and feel they got it right :) ) I'd say the cost would become more of an issue if you wanted to buy several pairs - it might start being worthwhile to make some then.

It wouldn't by the way be hard for Lee Valley to replace the handle with a piece of hex section bar so you could get a socket and power driver on it when needed. You could possible even file flats on the existing item, or drill through for a close fit and slip on a reasonably long hex nut in brass from something like a pneumatic fitting. Glue it with permanent Loctite adhesive - it probably wouldn't even need a pin.

ian

[Jim Matthews]

I put a piece of wax paper on my bench.

I lay the boards out, glue lines parallel to the bench top.
I drill a stop into the far end of the stack, right into the bench.

I use the one vise on my bench, at the other end to apply lateral pressure until I get squeeze out.

If the boards try to buckle in the middle, I clamp cauls in an "X" over the rack and screw them down to the bench on the inside edge of the stack.

Unless your making lots of panels, this is a specialty tool that doesn't come cheap.

[Andy Pratt]

Ian I'll try to answer your question but I am not sure if I necessarily understood it correctly so I'll answer twice.

If you are asking if the LV panel clamps generate normal clamping force on a panel like any standard clamp would do when clamping the edges of boards the answer is yes, definitely, and it is a respectable amount of force. I know I can get more force out of my k-bodys but I never need more than the LV clamp offers when doing panels, since you don't want to go crazy on clamp pressure with them. I feel like I can get more force out of them than with the unibody clamps, for example.

If you are asking if the LV clamps generate face-to-face clamping force on the panel (like a veneer press would for example) the answer is yes, but it is not a huge amount of force. If you do everything else reasonably right and don't overtighten the clamps way too much (talking a pretty excessive amount here) then this force is enough to prevent panel cup all the time, but it is nowhere near enough force to flatten out a twisted board, for example.

The reason to lean on the upper bar before tightening is that the upper bar will not travel (or not more than a little) as it is put in tension, so you want all of the gap between it and the panel top to be taken up ahead of time. If it is loose on there as you start clamping, you will invariably have one side end up 1/16-1/32 off the panel and the other right on the panel, and it won't keep the panel from cupping until that gap is taken up.

[Phil Thien]

I didn't have any luck finding long dowel nuts (I would figure 3" long and 5/8 dia is a minimum), anyone have a source?

One could use a smaller threaded steel cross-dowel embedded in a larger wooden dowel. Just cut a 3" long piece of 3/4" dowel, drill a hole through the length to hold the dowel, and drill a perpendicular hole for the threaded bolt. Of course, the largest cross-dowels I can find locally are 1/4-20 (probably insufficient for clamping pressure).

Woodpeckers has some larger cross-dowels, I think they go up to 3/8-16. But the problem is they're certainly wider and probably would require a pretty large wooden dowel to contain them.

At some point, it just sort of makes sense to buy the LV product.