Old Dogs , Neck and Shoulder stiffness

[lowell holmes]

My neck, shoulders, and neck get stiff bending over the bench while working. It's really prevalent
when I'm concentrating on the tea task at hand.

If any of you have similar issues, how do you cope with it?

[Zach Dillinger]

My neck, shoulders, and neck get stiff bending over the bench while working. It's really prevalent
when I'm concentrating on the tea task at hand.

If any of you have similar issues, how do you cope with it?

I ain't old (29) but I used to have trouble. So now I just sit down for most of my non-planing work.

[David Weaver]

I also sit. I sit when I'm sawing a long rip, I sit at the end of the bench to cut DTs.

[Chris Griggs]

I ain't old (29) but I used to have trouble. So now I just sit down for most of my non-planing work.

Same here (well, except I'm 31 not 29). Chopping dovetails and similar things get my neck the worst. I sit on my saw bench or a couple of stacked milk crates and that helps a lot.

[Tom Vanzant]

Lowell, either raise the work (bench-on-bench) or lower yourself (take a seat...stool). Depending on the task, I use both. FWIW, I'm 75.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Like everyone else said.

Also, try and figure out what tasks are giving you trouble (sounds like you figured that part out) and change your approach pre-emptively. I'm getting to the point where being bent over for a long while bothers me - but often not until I try and *unbend*. Waiting to change my work until I notice I'm hurting is too late.

How you approach things from an ergonomic perspective helps too - I had a tendency to bend over when surfacing stock. Making the conscious effort to work with my back straight helped a lot. Same task, work at the same height, I'm standing on the same surface, but a lot less back pain. A lot less tired arms, as well, because I end up working with my core and not my arms.

[Jeff Wittrock]

My neck bothers me after some time as well. I usually just take a break every now and then to stretch a bit or work on something else for a while.

[Ray Bohn]

About 5 years ago (age 62) I found that I couldn't take the neck and shoulder pain that I had been experiencing after being active for an extended period of time. I had this pain for years foryears. After convincing my general practitioner that standard physical therapy wasn't working, he sent me to a Physiatrist. He used some pretty heavy duty equipment that isolated the muscles that were causing the pain. Basically, I did not have the strength to hold up my fat head and work with proper posture. The process eliminated the pain completely.

[george wilson]

I'm constantly in pain and have had 14 surgeries. Had my neck fused years ago,which is a constant source of pain. Have a titanium implant in my back from several years ago,and now need another as spinal stenosis has returned. Both elbows got torn tendons and had surgery. Both wrists had carpal tunnel surgery and the stupid doctor didn't do either correctly. Had the right hand re done,and need the left re done,too. A big pain is my right thumb joint is completely worn out from finger picking since about 1952. It really throbs,and I haven't played in years due to the pain. Fortunately,I'm left handed,but it is often difficult to do certain things that need both hands. My knees have no cartilage,and my left shoulder is worn out and hanging rather loose in the socket from many years of hand tool work,among other tasks.

So,you see,I am a wreck,and often get out of sorts due to the wear of pain on my nerves. Never the less,I still make things,but try to avoid using tools that bother my various worn out places.

[Patrick McCarthy]

But George, unlike most of the rest of us, you have a lenghty list of simply AMAZING things you have made over the years. You earned your pain; we are simply whiners with sawdust at our feet.

I am always "wowwed" by your craftsmanship when you post things you have made over the years.

Best regards, Patrick

[David Paulsen]

I feel your pain, literally speaking. My bench is great for rough planing. It's low so I can get my body into it. But my back and shoulders were killing me when having to do detail work. So, as was going to build a moxon vise for when I work on dovetails, I made it high enough so it could double as a moveable detail bench. It still needs some holes for holdfasts but it has already saved me alot of ache.
259717

Regards

[Tony Sade]

I have lower back problems and a moxon vise made a huge difference. I still can't stand for very long periods without aggravating my back, but when I do have to stand, the MV is a great antidote. I've been thinking of making a bench-on-bench, and setting up some type of connecting system (maybe as simple as threaded inserts and threaded knobs) when joining the two would make sense. HTH

[lowell holmes]

That is one healthy looking Moxon vise.

I like it. I may copy it. I've got some 8/4 white oak that would do quite well.

I like your approach.

[george wilson]

Thank you,Patrick. I wish I'd been much more into photography. I let over 90% get away with no pics.

Living a pioneering life in Alaska didn't help my joints when I was in my earlier years.

[John Lanciani]

Taller bench? I'm 6'2" and my bench top is at 38.5". It is perfect for me for hybrid woodworking. (I like the Schwarz well enough but this is one area where I believe that he blew it; I think that there are going to be lots of people who followed his guidance on bench height that will have riser blocks stuck under their bench legs in the years to come.)

[Zach Dillinger]

Taller bench? I'm 6'2" and my bench top is at 38.5". It is perfect for me for hybrid woodworking. (I like the Schwarz well enough but this is one area where I believe that he blew it; I think that there are going to be lots of people who followed his guidance on bench height that will have riser blocks stuck under their bench legs in the years to come.)

Just depends on how you work, what planes you use, etc. I'm 6'5 and I have a 34" tall bench and it works great for planing. As I said, for other stuff, I sit down.

[Mark Roderick]

My two cents.

For one thing, I stand at my office desk all day. I feel so much better since I started standing all day. Now I don't even think about sitting down to work. Sitting is a very unnatural and unhealthy position.

For another, have you tried buying one of the wonderful gel mats to stand on? I sometimes see photos posted here of workbenches with concrete floors. Don't stand on concrete!

For another, I bet the problems you are experiencing are not really being "caused" by woodworking. They are about tight or weak muscles in your back, neck, legs, etc. I would definitely look into that before doing something drastic like sitting. Be aware, your general practice doctor is probably not going to do you any good in that regard - you need to find a specialist. You should also look into acupuncture, which helps some people dramatically.

Finally, just an inch or two difference in the height of your workbench can make a world of difference.

[Jim Palmer]

Try heightening your bench by a few inches and see if it helps. It very probably will help improve matters and especially so if you're trying to work from a low bench.

Gel in-soles for your work shoes/boots work well for periods during which you're constantly standing. Far less expense than gel mats.

[Bryan Schwerer]

These set of stretches work pretty well for me. You can do the last 2 just standing up in the stop every once and a while
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaMM9tn-saQ

[Adam Cruea]

I go with the adage "move your work to you, don't move to your work".

In this case, raise your work to the height where you feel comfortable doing it. That doesn't mean don't sit, but it doesn't mean you have to sit, either. Given a choice, I'd much rather stand for most things because my job requires me to sit. Unfortunately, I'm not in the position Mark (a few posts up) is as I'm a dirty, low-down contractor with the US gov't and I can't get a standing or walking desk.

All that crap teachers, nuns, and parents shoved down your throat about sitting/standing with "good" posture like you have a ram-rod stuck up your arse is actually very, very bad for you. You don't want to be stiff, but fluid. Standing/sitting like you have a fused back with a ram-rod for a spinal cord actually throws you off balance.

Here's a search for the "optimal" sitting posture (which always got me yelled at for "slouching"):

https://www.google.com/search?q=posture+135+degree&aq=f&oq=posture+135+degree&aqs=chrome.0.57.4404j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Here's some info for the "standing" posture:

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/standing/standing_basic.html

The big thing is, don't stay in one position for long periods of time. Move around. Need to chop dovetails for draw sides? Instead of making all your sides in one big batch (what seems the most efficient and logical to me), make the drawer sides one by one. By that, I mean chop the dovetails for one drawer, saw another drawer to rough dimensions, rough the stock for a third. Doing this, you can alternate between tasks and avoid over-fatiguing muscle groups and you avoid the tendency to start to sit like a statue and do repetitive tasks (which are very, very bad. . .humans are not meant to do that). I'm willing to bet Mr. Wilson probably did a *lot* of repetitive stuff for long periods of time over the years by the sounds of all the issues he's listed (which makes me very, very sad since his talents can't be put to use as easily as they used to be).

Also, I know it seems odd. . .but get a good pair of shoes for working in a shop. I either work with my Redwing boots on (they actually fit your shoes to you with a computer that analyzes your standing posture), or work barefoot. I prefer barefoot woodworking; I actually prefer to be barefoot most of the time. Our ancestors didn't have shoes until really recently in history, which oddly was when the human animal started having some serious issues with knees, backs, and all sorts of other stuff. Think about it; human beings migrated from Africa and Asia to America without shoes, or at most tanned animal hide to avoid frostbite. We weren't meant to wear shoes all day long, we weren't meant to sit all day long, and we weren't meant to stand all day log. Nor did we do highly repetitive stuff back then. It wasn't until we go "civilized" that we really started to fall apart.

Your body is meant for various activity. Read that carefully. Various activity. As in, don't do repetitive stuff if you can avoid it. When you notice pain, don't "be a man and suck it up". Stop what you're doing and try to figure out what the pain is from and why it's there. Pain is your body's warning system that "hey, yo, smart guy. . .something's wrong." Sometimes it's just as simple as shifting body position, sometimes it's as complicated as "put the work down and go do something else"; take a break and tell your wife and kids you love them, get a refill of coffee.

Also, I'd be careful with the gel insoles and mats. Gel is highly supporting, yes. . .the problem can arise when it is *too* supportive. For example, when you stand/walk, your arch naturally does not support weight; it's actually more of a spring to absorb shock. Gel moves weight to your arch, etc, and disrupts that. Personally, I'd go see a podiatrist (or someone other than a GP) before going that route. That's just me though, to each their own.

[lowell holmes]

These set of stretches work pretty well for me. You can do the last 2 just standing up in the stop every once and a while
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaMM9tn-saQ


Bryan,
You gave me what I was looking for when I made my post.
Today, I did the stretches shown in the video.

Afterwards, I worked in the shop all day. I never experieinced the discomfort in my shoulders and neck.
I don't expect never to feel the discomfort again, but I do believe that when I feel it, the stretches will help.

Thanks

[don wilwol]

yep, getting old sucks!!. Most of the things I'd suggest have been mentioned. Try raising or lowering your bench/work, etc. The other thing I do is work the repetitive task in sessions. I do it for a while then do something else. I tended to be a bit impatient in my younger days, and this has helps resolve some of those issues as well.

[lowell holmes]

It sure beats the alternative though. :)

[Matt Ranum]

Changing my bench height helped some, but for me the biggest thing was getting mats to stand on. So much so that I'm considering covering most of the shop floor with them. I got the cheap HF mats and they worked. I would have pain from my legs all the way to neck/shoulders. I'd say its 80% better now.