15" Planer Question

[Larry Feltner]

I am toying with the idea of getting a 15" planer with a helical head. I'm curious about the quality differences between the Powermatic 15HH and the Grizzly G0453Z. I know the Powermatic is significantly more expensive. The Powermatic has a byrd head and the Grizzly has a Grizzly head. I think the Powermatic is approximately $1,300 more than the Grizzly. My question is two fold for those who have used both. First, forget about price difference. Just looking at the relative quality of the two machines, is there much difference. In other words, is the Powermatic a better machine than the Grizzly, and if so, how much better? Second, if the Powermatic is a better quality product, is it enough to justify the price difference? Thanks in advance for your comments.

[Stephen Cherry]

Larry- at one time the 15 inch machines were made in Taiwan in the same factory. The griz has moved to main land red china. Not sure about the powermatic.

The hot ticket would be to buy a used Taiwanese version for about 500 dollars, put in the shelix head for 600, and spend the rest of the money on other toys.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/15-Shelix-Cutterhead/H7768

[Joe Shinall]

The hot ticket would be to buy a used Taiwanese version for about 500 dollars, put in the shelix head for 600, and spend the rest of the money on other toys.

Exactly what I did and couldn't be happier. Bought an older Grizzly g1021z for $400 and immediately bought the shelix head with a 10% off coupon from Grizz. Never even used it before I put the head in. Aligned everything and feel like I have a $2k planer for about $1000.

[Matt Day]

If they're both the traditional 4 poster, why would you pay more for a gold paint job?

[david brum]

Count me as #3 in the used planer/Byrd head category. These 15" planers haven't changed all that much in decades, so there isn't necessarily a huge benefit to buying new. Having said that, if I were buying new, I would look at the Grizzly. It is considered to be one of their best deals and there are very few negative comments about them. If you do a search, you will find plenty of comparisons between the Byrd head and Grizzly head's performance. Most people don't notice a difference. You will also find comparisons between different Asian 15" planers. Same thing goes there, no real difference in performance.

Which ever way you go, you'll likely be very happy with one of these. You just have to choose your color scheme.

One thing which will make a big difference on any brand is installing a Wixey or similar digital height gauge. If you get your machine set up right, a DRO will allow very satisfying, repeatable accuracy.

[Larry Feltner]

Thanks for the advise. What would be your suggestion if I could get a gently used Powermatic with the Bryd head for the same price as a new Grizzly? Would you go that route?

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for the advise. What would be your suggestion if I could get a gently used Powermatic with the Bryd head for the same price as a new Grizzly? Would you go that route?

YES!

I bought a new Grizzly w/spiral head a couple years back. The first one was sent back due to shipping damage and I spend more time than expected to tune in the second (works perfectly now). If you could avoid these two steps you will be far ahead.

Mike

[david brum]

Agreed! Used is the way to go if you can wait and search. Somebody else already paid the new tool premium, shipping and taxes. They also did the assembly and scraped off the cosmoline. If you can tolerate a few scratches or an old paint scheme, you get a machine that (probably) already has the bugs worked out of. You're just doing your civic duty by relieving them of their shop clutter.

[Andrew Joiner]

Thanks for the advise. What would be your suggestion if I could get a gently used Powermatic with the Bryd head for the same price as a new Grizzly? Would you go that route?

In that case a Grizzly is $1745 with shipping. Most buyers report Grizzly delivery includes rolling the machine into your shop. That was the case for my 21" bandsaw.

If you pay $1745 for the used Powermatic don't you have to deliver it to your shop? With the Grizzly you set it up, use it, test the performance and if there's a trouble you have a warranty. Grizzly does have excellent customer service.


What if you leave the brand names out of the equation.
Choice #1- Buy an Asian made planer delivered with a guarantee it will work properly initially and free parts for a year.
Choice#2- Buy an Asian made planer. I have to get it in my shop. Machines are heavy and they're often damaged when moved.
Then there's no guarantee once it's in.

I'd go Grizzly unless your buying the PM from a friend you trust that will deliver it for free.

[ed vitanovec]

With either machine a good used one will be the best option. Both machines are probably made by Gee Tech and private labled. The quality should be close to the same, which is really good. I would think the paint would be better on the Powermatic. You can't go wrong with either machine and if it were me buying new I would go with the Grizzly and pocket the savings for another Tool.

[Larry Feltner]

I don't know much about these machines. I noticed that the Grizzly says it has serrated steel feed rollers. The Powermatic says it has serrated steel infeed rollers and smooth steel outfeed rollers. Is that a real difference between the two machines or is that just a difference in the detail of the descriptions provided by Grizzly and Powermatic? Do the smooth steel outfeed rollers help with leaving roller marks on the wood or is it irrelevant?

[Stephen Cherry]

I don't know much about these machines. I noticed that the Grizzly says it has serrated steel feed rollers. The Powermatic says it has serrated steel infeed rollers and smooth steel outfeed rollers. Is that a real difference between the two machines or is that just a difference in the detail of the descriptions provided by Grizzly and Powermatic? Do the smooth steel outfeed rollers help with leaving roller marks on the wood or is it irrelevant?

Larry, years ago fine woodworking did a test on these machines, and noted that they were all the same from the same factory and all were OK. Since then, manufacturing has gone to china, so who knows what it would be. They did not go to china for higher quality- it was surly for cheaper manufacturing. When I last looked, most were from china, and a few from Taiwan. In my opinion, the machine that is not brand new would be the safer bet, and all things considered, I would be looking for the griz for long term customer support.

The machines have serrated infeed rollers to grab the wood, and non-serrated outfeed to feed without marring the just planed surface. One of the down sides of these machines is that the infeed rollers can imprint into the wood and if the cut is not deep enough, the imprint will not be cut off.

[scott vroom]

Several references above to China Vs Taiwan made, with the usual inference that Taiwan mfg is superior to China mfg. This seems to be an age-old mantra, yet I don't recall seeing any data-driven analysis substantiating that claim.

Apple's iPhone is made in China....and is considered by many to be the highest quality consumer smart phone on the market. Go figure.

Unless someone can back up the claim with hard data, I don't accept the premise that Taiwan always makes a better tool than China.

[Stephen Cherry]

Several references above to China Vs Taiwan made, with the usual inference that Taiwan mfg is superior to China mfg. This seems to be an age-old mantra, yet I don't recall seeing any data-driven analysis substantiating that claim.

Apple's iPhone is made in China....and is considered by many to be the highest quality consumer smart phone on the market. Go figure.

Unless someone can back up the claim with hard data, I don't accept the premise that Taiwan always makes a better tool than China.

Scott- last I heard Taiwan is a great place for manufacturing, although china is a great place to buy other objects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Alleged_organ_harvesting

[scott vroom]

Stephen, not sure I get the connection between the Wiki link and the question of Taiwan Vs China tool quality.

Larry, I was faced with the same decision: yellow vs green paint. I opted for the more affordable Grizzly 15" planer 3-1/2 years ago and would do it again regardless of point of origin.

[David Kumm]

Scott- last I heard Taiwan is a great place for manufacturing, although china is a great place to buy other objects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

It's all where you are on the economic curve. Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and now China all started out as low cost poor quality and either improved their quality as wages went up or vice versa. As the cost of labor increase the price point stuff is farmed out to cheap labor and to survive a country morphs into higher quality production. Everyone can produce quality, whether they can or will do it at the price point is the issue. The Taiwan stuff from the 80's was horrible, now it seems great. Partially because it is good, partially because our standards are continually lowered. Dave

[Stephen Cherry]

Stephen, not sure I get the connection between the Wiki link and the question of Taiwan Vs China tool quality.



The whole idea is that I really do not want it bad enough to subject others to abuses, particularly when there are other options.

[Charlie Jones]

Amen to that. I would much rather buy from a free country.

[scott vroom]

The whole idea is that I really do not want it bad enough to subject others to abuses, particularly when there are other options.

While it may be admirable to boycott products made in China, it's increasingly difficult to purchase many consumer electronic products that aren't manufactured, to some extent, in China (if you're a purist then you must also consider component and sub-assemblies not just the final assembled product). I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you own many items made in China, where there are other options. Do you own a smart phone? China. Computer? Most likely China. Printer? Same.

My view is that boycotting China goods would harm rather than help Chinese workers.

I'm expecting a warning any minute for TOS violation...lol.

[joe maday]

To address the problem of marks left by feed rollers.....Get two outfeed rollers for an "off shore" 15" delta planer (from a repcement oarts dealer), They are rubber coated, then install in place of the infeed/outfeed rollers of the planer you purchase, (I swaped them into a used 15" jet planer) hopefully you can get a good used one for a low price......They grab the lumber on the infeed as well as a serrated roller, the results are ...no more marks!!! Additionally if you get a byrd cutterhead, look into geting the bryd head from Holbren Speak to Dan, He is really helpful, priced like grizzly, have the new bearings pressed on by byrd....they ship directly from byrd. With a used machine with new rollers,and new cutterhead you price total may not be half of a new machine but the results are better than a new one.

[Chris Padilla]

Folks,

Please keep on topic...we don't want to see this spiral into a debate regarding overseas manufacturing.

[Matt Day]

Joe,
do you have a link or part number for the rubber coated rollers? I tried searching for some a while back and it was a dead end.
Thanks!

[Jim Andrew]

I bought a new G0453px planer on the Christmas sale, and it was adjusted very well, all I had to do was clean it up, put boeshield on it and use it. Just planed up a bunch of lumber today, worked great. I have the Byrd head on my jointer, but think the Griz head works better. It has smaller cutters, probably just the overlap, but seems like it takes less power to run it.

[joe maday]

Matt,
The part number of the roller that i used was 1349339 ( delta 15" planer 22-681,675, # 68 in parts schematics). the number is listed at sears parts (83.97), ereplacement(113.25) and toolpartsdirect.(94.38). Sears is the lowest price and shows in stock. I ordered a extra roller about 3months ago . it was listed as in stock, then recieved email that it was backordered, after a month the price jumped up to 141.00 (still listing in stock) when I called an additional month later the part was shipped and they adjusted the part to the original price I had ordered at. Apparently they are made by a third party for delta, when they were taken over ,it screwed up their parts ordering and availibility.... anyway at 83.97 it's the lowest in about a year. My brother has been using this system on his jet planer for about 10 years (he first used the outfeed rollers from a reliant planer). He had to replace them once because the rubber was becoming loose from the roller and was "Chunking out" The first set was a clear/amber color rubber, the new replacements are white rubber and seem to be harder rubber, no problems with them... They work so well we're surprised that they are not installed on the machines right from the factory.

[Matt Day]

Joe,
Thanks for all that information! Looks like with shipping, Sears will be just shy of $100. I also have a Jet planer so I'm glad to hear it's working well for your brother.

[joe maday]

Matt,
when i replaced the rollers I also replaced the bushings, they also seem hard to find in stock sometimes, anyway i put both the infeed and outfeed rollers in my machine about 3 years ago, Then just 3 months ago decided to get an extra roller after seeing the problem of them being availible and rising cost. (First set was 70.00 then ordered 2nd at 93.00 then saw as high as 150.00) So.......3 rollers 300.00 not too crazy but would be like having a spare tire....a wast of space untill you need it.
Not all parts are interchangeable between these 15" planers....some seals in the gearcase (some are pressed, someare held with a retaining plate) and the gaskets are different from one manufacturere to another, usually it is not the shape but the diameter of bolt holes. I found that out when changing the cutterhead to a Byrd shelix. So Jet gaskets and seals, Delta/generic rollers and bushings.